Tim Sullivan Official Coach Thread...

Coach Patrick

Tim, so IMTX is on the radar...that means some quality training in a short burst of time. That said, it looks like you aren't following the Triathlon Season RoadMap™ that Coach Rich built you (view it here). You are already due to be in the OutSeason®  program...and there are only 8 weeks before race prep.  

You adjust your plan using the Move / Change button on the Training Plan page...I'll load up the OS for you now..but let me know what you think when you dive in. 

This early work is mission critical!

~ Coach P

Tim Sullivan

Thanks.  I thought the plan was supposed to start next week, but I'll get right on it!

Tim Sullivan

For the Tuesday bikc (MS: 3 x 8' (2') @ Zone 4. Remainder of any time you have available (if any, not required) @ Zone 3) can I substitute an hour race on Zwift as long as I am in Zone 4 for 24'

Coach Patrick

Tim, YES! That will work any time, and sounds like MORE FUN!

Side note - where do you post the workout data? Would like to see what a Zwift race file looks like!

~ Coach P

Tim Sullivan

Sorry for the delay. Still getting used to all of the material!

Zwift rides gets uploaded on Strava as well as training peaks. Its a .fit file that can be uploaded to TrainingPeaks or probably also Strava (havent tried as the Strava integration always works).  I'll be happy to email you a copy of the file if interested as I didnt see a good attach mechanism here.  Here is a link to a race yesterday (I had to get off the bike for a couple of minutes to attend to a kid matter)  https://www.strava.com/activities/807290410

www.zwiftpower.com shows race results for a bunch of different races (it grabs the data off of Strava)

 

Coach Patrick

Tim, you are blowing my mind...what a great workout...I am jealous. You can attach anytime by using blue "add reply" button and attach from there...but Strava data is perfect. Keep pushing those watts!

Tim Sullivan

So I think I'm making great progress following the outseason plan (at least Training peaks shows my fitness increasing) and my running times and power are all improving. I just have a quick question about doing the Austin 3M half marathon on January 22nd. The great thing about this half is that it is almost all downhill half (900 to about 500ft) that is a point to point run. I know I switch to the IM plan on January 30th and there is a run test at that point. From what I've seen in the forums, it appears that this is probably a good thing to do, or at least not bad. Do you have a preference one way or the other?

Coach Patrick

Tim, that's fantastic! I am pumped for you. Yes to the half marathon...just want to make sure we capture your bike fitness before you head out of the OS as well. I can't find your roadmap online, so it's hard to visualize what you season looks like.

Basically want to make sure you have the week 14 testing done, so you can use the drop down to use / follow that for the week of the 16th. We'll have an interim week (23rd) where you can do Swim Camp Plan for one week and go from there!

Tim Sullivan

Thanks. My road map has me transitioning from OS week 8 to week 9 of the intermediate full ironman plan on January 30th. The bike test is supposed to occur on January 24th and the run test on the 26th but I was thinking the half on the 22nd could be the run test unless that's a bad idea. I don't think I have a swim camp in my plan.

BTW. My initial power numbers for the bike are based on NY trainer which I now realize is high as I just got a powertap pedal that registers lower (oh well ) My numbers have definitely improved. I am keeping track of both now since I will rely on the powertap values during the race. I also should have my stryd power meter for running by the end of next week so I'm looking forward to that.

Have a great weekend!

Coach Patrick

Yes to the run test as the half. It's just a much better data set for us to work from. That said, the fact that it would fall before your bike test could mean a subpar bike performance. Did You be okay moving a bike test back a day or two? I would strongly advise it.

Don't worry so much about the absolute number, we'll be care about more isn't accurate and consistent number for power. People experience in emotional fluctuations according to power meter readings, but they're often quite variable. A good power meter we'll help you execute properly which will lead to the best positive metric of all– an excellent finish.

Just got my stryd too, totally geeking out here!

Tim Sullivan

So I ran the 3M Austin half yesterday as my run test and was happy with the run.  I made sure I tapered a little to get my form number in TP down to -1.7 so I felt pretty good.  I followed the half pacing plan where I ran the first 3 miles at a slower pace, then increased pace for next 7 miles, and then since I felt good I ran the last 5K hard (I averaged 7:20).  I started with the 2:00hr pacing group and ran with them a few miles then caught the 1:55 pacing group and probably ran 6-7 miles near them.  I ended up finishing at 1:48:17.  I felt good through the entire race and thought the first 10 miles was actually fairly easy.  I don' think my heart rate monitor was registering correctly as it showed my avg HR to be 138 for the run (it was very windy so Im not sure if that interfered with it or not).  I would have expected 150-155 or so average. My lactate threshold is about 162. I also ran using the Stryd power meter.  I actually ran off of the power instead of the pace since there was some uphills and downhills.  I think it worked very well and mentally I think I liked just looking at a power value vs. pace.  It made me run slower on the few uphills and much faster on some of the downhills.  I also think the hard bike work has definitely paid off.  I attached some pics to show the power and pacing. As you can see, my power increased during the race but it remained fairly flat even though the elevation (shown in the pics) is flat or dropping or going up a little.

Coach Patrick

Tim, great job! I'd love to see a full shot of the ENTIRE RUN so I can get a sense of how it played out visually. This ia a very well paced run...but I think it's more Half Iron pacing vs Half Marathon Road pacing.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you really could have run faster.  I'm not surprised by the low HR at all; I'd expect a half marathon to be run at closer to .85 Intensity Factor overall...I am guessing yours was .81-ish.  Call it a 1:45 finish time if we were clock only. 

I am going to save the data, but out of curiosity I'd like to know your rFTP...  

Enjoy some recovery!

~ Coach P

Tim Sullivan

Thanks, Coach.  I have attached the full run pics and also a pic of the cadence, form power, and leg stiffness from Stryd.  I also attached the Training Peaks summary of the run.  It turns out I ran the half marathon at an overall IF of .92 and the last 5k at 1.  My rFTPw is 250w which equates to about a 7:30 pace on the flats. Looks like I averaged 3.15 W/kg. I do agree that I could have run faster and your 1:45 estimate is probably correct.  I don't have a lot of experience in pacing longer runs, so I wanted to make sure I didnt blow up near the end. I also read in one of the EN articles that trying to get a good last 5K was helpful. I was not expecting to be as fresh as I was throughout the race (good sign!).  

I think some of the factors that made me feel good for this run is that I gained significant leg strength due to my off season 5x5 squats routine which I got to 225lbs for five sets of five. That was an increase of 50% as I was at 175 for 5x5. I have not been doing that routine for a while as it would be too draining for any other work, but I definitely think it helped my running and biking. I also think the hard bike intervals has really increased my lactate threshold levels (at least TP says so). I think TP says I have increased that from about 155 8 weeks ago to 162-163 now. All that in combination with a couple days low work before the run resulting in a -1.7 form race day made it feel much easier.

I do now that I have a lot more to improve as I used to run much faster when I was younger (<18min 5k). I dont see myself returning to that speed but maybe somewhere between 19-20 with proper training? You would know much better than me on that.

Will do the bike test later this week after some more easy days.  I know from TP that the bike FTP has gone up about 40 watts in the last 8 weeks. I have a lot more sprint power compared to 20 minute sustained power, but will keep working to increase my long term power.

Thanks again and looking forward to your thoughts!

Coach Patrick

@Tim Sullivan  Great stuff..also tapping @Peter Noyes on this so he sees it. 

I think that you ran well, so don't get me wrong. I meant to say that looking at this incredible power data it's CLEAR to me you could have been faster...something I only used to guess at.  

And your IF is close...I think .95 is likely more total Half Marathon. You paced it right, and next time you'll know even more as you go...so don't get down on yourself. 

I'd like to know more about your leg routine....I have some ideas of my own but would appreciate your input!

~ Coach P

Ps yes to a sub 20. Don't forget the intelligence and guile factors on your side!!!  

Tim Sullivan

Thanks for the input! Really appreciate it.  I have a to learn about pacing long distance but follow directions well .  That power data is awesome. I think you'll really be able to help us with that data.  I'm new to power so I will keep learning.

As for my weight routine that increased my strength I followed the 5x5 Strong lifts routine from beginning of November till January 8th. I didn't stall but it's way too much work now with everything else.  I will do maintenance with lighter weight and work on moving the weight quicker with good form but this is definitely on the back burner now.  Basically the 5x5 does only five exercises across two workouts.  Here is the link to the info. 

https://stronglifts.com/5x5/

I have been lifting for a while so I wasn't new when I did this but I definitely added a bunch of strength without bulk.  Since all the exercises are compound movements my core and back and supporting muscles got a great workout.  Since you start the program much lighter than you can lift I took the opportunity to do full squats and not just parallel.  I was amazed how quickly you can gain strength. When I don't do this I do a variety of other exercises including a lot of pull ups and push ups. Till IM Texas I will just focus on the training plan as that appears to be quite enough!

Now for the bike test tomorrow or Friday. Legs feel pretty good now but might wait till Friday as I can still notice the fatigue from the half.

Tim Sullivan

I completed my bike test! Can't say it was easy, but my FTP increased from 259 to 292.  So a baseline increase of a little over 12% which seems pretty good, but I have nothing to compare to since I am new to all of this.  I did this test during a race on Zwift in which I was able to keep up with the top B riders (and lead them part of the time) until the 20 minute mark at which point you see I dropped off to recover (avg HR 171 for the 20 minutes which is 105% of my LT) and then ride the rest of the race at a more easy heart rate of 155 of so.  Next up the Intermediate EN*Full training plan to end on 4/23 for Ironman TX!

Coach Patrick

12% is epic!!! We typically hope for about 10%, so anything above that is awesome. Don't forget that your water typically 8 to 10% higher outside exhibition point this could well mean that your FTP is in the 320 range which would be fantastic. Especially on a flat course like Texas.

Before we move on from your run data, I wanted to clear something up. As I read more more about the power meter, it's become apparent to me that you will always see an increase in power towards the end of race. This is because you typically have to work much harder to keep the same pace as your efficiency fails.

So my first glance at your file and review was likely misleading. It's not like you had tons of extra power, it just means that you have the capacity to work harder at the end. I hope to continue learning more as we gather more data... So please keep collecting it and crushing it!!!!

Beast Mode in the Gym...just watch your technique: 

Tim Sullivan

That's interesting about the power. I would think the form power would increase (which I think it did by a couple watts) at the end of the race or when you are tired.  Is that the power increase?  I guess if form power decreased and power increased then you would have lots left.  Do you have any idea on what form power change during a run would indicate a runner is really falling apart?  I've only seen elite runner graphs from Stryds website.

I'll be interested to see power outside as I have been doing trainer rides. But whatever it is, I'll at least know how to pace. 

Thanks!

Coach Patrick

Tim, I am going to have to keep learning...so bear with me. The point is that when you are running well and not tired, you are efficient. But at some point that efficiency fades...and so you have to force it to work.

That forcing requires more power (think of it as the Heart Rate drift we see over a steady long run) as expressed in watts. It's not that you are riding stronger...but you are working harder. That hard work it's expressed as a faster pace...but a sustained / slower pace.

I think there's something to be done in that space to help us figure that out. Stay tuned...and keep running!

Tim Sullivan

So this is a quick question about week 17 of the 2017 EN*FULL, Intermediate plan. I was looking through rides near where I lived for camp week and ran across the RAAM race across America series that has a 200 mile one day option for Saturday, March 25, 2017.  Unfortunately, this ride is after the camp week but it is VERY close to me and doesnt require any travel. According to the training plan, the ride for Saturday, the 25th shows 300 minutes and the ride on Sunday shows 210 minutes.  My question is whether it would be worth it to do the RAAM (at whatever pace you decide) in place of these two separate rides.  This would be exactly one month prior to IM Texas and one week before the last race rehearsal.  Here is the link if interested http://www.raamchallenge.com/texas.html

Thanks!

Tim Sullivan

Hi Coach.  I've decided not to do that ride in the above post but would be curious to know if you think if that type of ride is beneficial.  At any rate, I thought I would provide an update on my training. First, I feel good and I think I am making great progress. I monitor how I feel, my resting HR, and my HRV to help determine if I need a break. Second, the resources that are available on the website are amazing.  I have found the answers to MANY of my questions just by reading.  For example, I realized from reading on the site that my drop in FTP from 297 to 275 is probably due to my fatigue from the additional training I am doing now and is nothing to worry about.  Even though my upper FTP seems to be a little lower, my HR is lower at higher Watts.  I also have been doing better in the Zwift races and even had a podium finish.  Its nice to know that after an hour of hard riding that I now can hold 400+ watts for a few minutes to finish out a race (that wasn't possible before as I would be too tired at the end). I also found some Swim posts that have helped me a bunch.  I never understood how to properly kick to keep my legs from sinking.  After researching, and a little experimenting, I am now doing a two beat kick (that I'm sure can be improved) that has made me MUCH faster at less effort.  I decreased my 100 time by about 10 seconds with just an easy two beat kick (1:34 with no wetsuit, 1:25 with lava pants). I have also decided to swim with at least my lava pants (probably wetsuit) during IM Texas as I don't expect to placing (that's hopefully not too far off in the future).  As you can see, I am still 10 seconds faster/100 with my lava pants as compared to no lava pants. It's also much less effort for me to sustain 1:45/100 times with a wetsuit. Does this sound reasonable to swim with wetsuit even if water temp is above 76?  I will continue to work on the swim until it doesnt matter!  

With regard to the bike, I feel very good.  The only item I am having some problems with is staying in the aero bars for extended periods.  I hope to finish the bike in 5-5 1/2 hours (will know more after the RR this week).  My running also seems to be progressing.  My HR has dropped significantly for the same pace, so I'm pleased about that. My pace has also increased (my TRP is 8:46).  I know there is tons of room for improvement here as I used to run much faster.  I am more careful adding mileage and stress during the run training to make sure that I don't overdo it. Here are some charts from TP to show my progress.  I'm looking forward to the RR and seeing how I perform and feel.

Any thoughts or recommendations?  I will update after this wee and the RR

Coach Patrick

@Tim Sullivan -- 

I hope you don't mind that I used my computer to record a screen cast of advice for you. I'm going to post it on the forms of the team can see what my general recommendations are. If you want to watch that video yourself it's going to be over here in this forum thread.

I am super pumped for what you been able to do on the bike, and you can tell from your PMC that finances high. As I seen my video, I think it's more likely due to your addition of the run stress than anything special on the bike. You were already kind of crushing a bike so factoring in some of the run likely gave you an additional boost. 

I agree with the Lava Pants...it's a no brainer, but I wouldn't train with them too much...1x per week is okay so you are comfortable with them.

I want you to work in some intermittent breaks on the bike. If it's a 30' cycle, think 25' aero and 5' sitting up, and repeat...eventually you will be able to stay aero for longer at the end of the ride. And there's nothing wrong with doing intermittent standing breaks on race day (10 to 20 pedal revs in a big gear when it's flat no headwind). 

The run improvement is GREAT. But stay focused...a great run is not slowing down, so that means smart early running and great bike + run nutrition. You didn't mention much about the food side of things, how is that going? Remember we want you to pee 2x on the bike.... 

~ Coach P

Tim Sullivan

Thanks Coach! I enjoyed the video and learned from it. I'm excited about the progress I've made but am even more excited about potential improvements if I keep working. My first triathlon was the half ironman at CDA last summer so I've got a long way to go. 

I think my nutrition is working well.  I will probably have to drink a little more if it gets hotter out. I'm going with mostly a liquid diet of gatorade endurance and some cliff blocks.

I'm good on the peeing part as I pee on the bike at least twice and I even had to pee after the run of the race rehearsal.  I also took some locks of base salt.

 Early meal before the rehearsal I have tried the Naked juice protein smoothie and a yogurt.  I like the naked juicce idea as it has lots of what seem to be good calories.  I learned about the naked juice from either the race plans or race reports. Lots of good stuff in those.  I maybe even got the idea from one of your reports. 

Thanks again 

Shaughn Simmons

@Tim Sullivan - been watching you work hard and smart for this cycle.  Great things to come on race day when you follow Coach P's words to every detail!  Keep Leading!

SS

Tim Sullivan

@Shaughn Simmons - thanks for the support!  I really appreciate it.  I always like seeing your training on Strava.  It's easier to work when you see others working hard, and you always seem to be working hard and enjoying yourself.

Tim Sullivan

Hi Coach P.  This is just a copy of what I just messaged you with using the red button for our call today. 

Here are some notes and some example data for you our call today.  Hopefully not too much.  During the call, I would like to discuss my pacing/strategy for IM Texas. Generally, I am a little concerned with biking too hard if I go primarily off my power numbers.  I was not able to get a good test of my power on good flat roads.  Instead, I had numbers off of either very hilly roads with stops, or TERRIBLE and extremely bumpy roads.  I think I do have a good grasp on my HR numbers as well as power on my trainer. 

I’m also concerned that if I go primarily by my bike power, I might not be able to run the entire 26.  Currently, running is not as strong for me.  Somewhat strange, as I just started biking again a little over a year ago, and I started running again a few years back.

I would like to push as hard as possible during the IM, and not take part of the race too easy (the bike).  I am going to not change clothes during the IM and work on transition times.  I figure that this practice will be good for future events when those minutes/seconds will matter.  It’s not like you get too many opportunities at these long distances. 

My body composition is great.  I weigh 147 with about 5% body fat. Before entering the IM plan, I was 160 with 9% body fat (dexa scan). 147 is less than high school or college when I was 152 with about the same body fat.  I am more muscular now.  People say I look healthy, so I think that is a good sign.  I did not do anything special to lose weight (besides ALL that work!!).  I never thought I would get down to a 29 inch waist again!

Here are my thoughts on pacing based on the example numbers below.

Swim – Easy 2:00/100 yard pace – that’s what my long open water swims have averaged. Estimated swim time 1:20 – 1:30.

Bike – let my HR range between 130-149 during the bike portion.  Bike for 15 minutes easy (165w) if my HR is higher than 140 and let it drop.  Slowly increase the bike to about 205w as long as my HR doesn’t increase above 140. Stay at 205 for some amount of time (?) then increase my power to about 220w, which will keep me hopefully under 145. For some reason, on my bike rides I feel more comfortable when I am at a harder effort level.  I don’t know why this is.  Maybe I just zone out more.  Estimated bike time 5-5:30.  My last RR was 4:50 with an average of 214w.  Will try to stay aero, but this is still a work in progress.

For the run, I will follow the run plan. First six miles at 9:57 (Z1+30), miles six to 18 at around 9:27 (Z1)(maybe faster? 9:00-9:15 depending on HR), then see how I feel and try to push to TRP pace.  I wouldn’t mind even starting slower if that would be beneficial.  Estimated run time 4:30 – 5:00 depending on HR and how I feel.

The only other thing I wanted to discuss was getting through the suck point of the IM. I’m good at pushing hard and not giving up (otherwise I would have stopped almost all the Zwift races I completed in J).  I have NO IDEA what that feeling is going to be, so help here would be beneficial. 

 

Thanks!!!

 

Current Numbers – My max HR is about 195 (taken from my training data)

Bike Zones
Z1:	0 - 214
Z2:	214 - 229
Z3:	245 - 260
Z4:	291 - 306
Z5:	336 - 367
Run Zones
Z1/LRP:		9:27
Z2/MP:		8:06
Z3/HMP:		7:48
Z4/TP:		7:33
Z5/IP:		7:10
TRP:		8:46

 

RUNNING DATA

11:14/mi 129 bpm (10 mile run)

10:20/mi 120 bpm (4 mile run)

 

18 mile RR run

1              9:47 /mi                135 bpm

3              9:36 /mi                140 bpm

4              9:35 /mi                141 bpm              

5              9:37 /mi                140 bpm              

6              9:33 /mi                141 bpm

7              8:57 /mi                144 bpm

8              8:42 /mi                147 bpm

9              8:45 /mi                147 bpm

10           8:53 /mi                147 bpm

11           8:35 /mi                145 bpm

12           8:45 /mi                145 bpm

13           8:47 /mi                144 bpm

14           8:41 /mi                147 bpm

15           8:49 /mi                149 bpm

16           8:14 /mi                158 bpm

17           7:59 /mi                161 bpm

18           7:49 /mi                168 bpm

 

BIKE DATA

 

Bike – Current FTP 306 – sustainable for an hour

167w – 132 bpm (107 miles – TERRIBLE BUMPY roads)

190w – 125 bpm (Zwift)

190w – 139 bpm (Hills)

206w – 133 bpm (Zwift)

214w - 133 bpm (112 miles Zwift) – HR between 130-147 – first part of ride was about 200w – second part was closer to 240                                                                                                   

237w - 142 bpm (60k Zwift)

240w - 145 bpm (Zwift)

256w - 150 bpm (Zwift)

264w –157 bpm (Zwift)

300w – 163 bpm (Zwift)

Tim Sullivan

Hi Coach.  Here is something that you might be interested in relating to Zwift.  This screenshot is taken from zwiftpower.com and shows most of my races that I have participated in on Zwift since last November.  Zwiftpower captures all of this data from Strava and generates real time race results for most of the Zwift races.  After you race, you go to zwiftpower, select your race, and then you can see the results.

For me, I think this chart really shows my changes since last November, both in power, HR, and weight. You can see that I reluctantly went up to the "A" category after getting two "UPG".  I didn't think that I would be able to consistently hold over 4 w/kg for hour plus races.  I guess 4 races in a row over 4 w/kg proves me wrong.


 

Coach Patrick

@Tim Sullivan - Thanks for the ZwiftPower tip and the great call. You are as fit as possible, but you still need that "beginner's mind" for race day. Continue to review / refine that race plan...I am happy to look at anything; post a link to it here if I don't find it!

~ Coach P

Tim Sullivan

Here is my race plan.  Got some good feedback

https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/23030/tim-sullivans-imtx-2017-race-plan#latest

Coach Patrick

Ok, I am hitting it!!

Tim Sullivan

Hi Coach.  Here is some data from IMTX.  Didn't start and stop exactly, but close.