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Chip Lombardi's 2017 Edition Thread

No questions yet...Doing Run Durabiliyt leading to January OS...Let's Go!

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  • Ok...here we go!...some good swimming going on...Mon/Fridays....not alot of volume but good form work, recovery day, pace....Bike is now coming back....QUESTION: are you ok with Revolver 1min:1min v 30:30's? not shooting for Sufferfest targets using the proscribed power targets...felt great yesterday..followed up with a good 30min. Brick.....
    Second Question: My new job has me traveling a bit more...concerns me about missing one of Tues or Thurs bike...thoughts on moving them around?...say I don't have access on Tuesday...Do on Monday? is that okay after Sunday?..Thanks.
  • Yes to Revolver...the 30/30s aren't for everyone, and the 1/1 structure of revolver is the perfect midpoint. Not to mention the inspiration!

    I can feel the pain as I type this. FLASHBACK!

    If you have to adjust the week, and you are flexible on other days, I would move the entire OS week back...so Sunday is the new Monday, Monday is the new Tuesday, etc. Is that possible? 
  • Thanks...I will do 30:30's occassionally but the elegance of the minute is nice...and as my FTP increases....the suffering will be equisite!....I'm really surprised at how good I feel both on bike and run...the step up has been good for me...my body responds better to a higher level of training than what I had been giving it...

    Regarding the week adjustment(s)...that may work...I usually try to schedule my travel when necessary/possible to depart Monday afternoon then back by Thursday...so it is usually the Tuesday bike that is an issue. Rarely am I traveling and missing Tues & Thursday...usually one or the other...so the question is do I try to shift it somewhere else in the week...example If I miss Tuesday Bike...I still do the run...Wednesday normal Run...fly back Thursday bike/run...Friday is usually a swim Saturday Bike/run Sunday Long Run...do I just skip it and go on? or I guess I could do Long Run on Sunday, Bike/run on Monday, Tuesday off, Wednesday Run, Thursday Bike/run Friday off..Sat Bike Run...If I just skip it  I would possibly miss 5 Tuesdays out of 14 weeks max...5 of 42 bike sessions...my guess is it will be some combination of weeks I miss and weeks I can adjust.....any general rules like...no more than 3 days in a row of work before a rest day?..or no more than some cumulative TSS before a rest day?

  • JCL... Just remember that I prefer a consistency right now over flash. Your fitness is backed, but it still has a ways to go. We don't want to get overexcited and overreach. :sweat_smile:

    As for adjusting your week, I say you Get creative. If you're on the road for four days with Monday a travel day, then let's do your long run while you're out there. For example: 

    TRAVEL WEEK

    Mon - Tuesday Bike/Run
    Tue - Long Run
    Wed - OFF
    Thu - Thursday Bike/Run
    Fri - Swim / Optional Run
    Sat - Sat Bike/Run
    Sun - OFF
  • So things progressing very well legs really coming back on the bike...some outside riding has helped...and managing the business travel with minimal loss of wrkts....Quick Question: I am swimming on Mondays & Fridays when I'm in town...not alot of volume (1500-2000yds total), some kick work (fins & board) that I noticed has really helped as core and additive for my running (?) does that make sense?..also for core balance...but real question I wanted to ask is that I also do 50's & 100"s with bouy & bands....is it typical/normal that I'm faster (by 2-3sec)with buoy/bands than without?...and what would that indicate I should work on?...thanks...
  • @Joseph Lombardi I love the routine you are in...looking good! I think the fact that core from swimming is showing an improvement in your run is the single strongest argument for you to follow some kind of year round core action.  :smiley:

    As for your swim, yes, faster with buoy means your body position needs help (legs are dragging a bit).  There are several ways to work on this...I have found for me:

    #1: Catch Up drill focusing on getting active hand in and down to match the inactive one. I typically "start my hands to high" when just swimming. 

    #2: Fist drill just makes  me a better "catcher" which keeps my speed up. 

    #3: A slightly faster turn over (think 60 strokes per length vs 55, so not massive) helps keep my momentum. 

    Don't forget to have tight, focused kicking...sometimes the body position is good, but if you have a big 2 beat kick, the legs will really separate and could slow you down!

    Please keep me posted!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited February 7, 2017 2:30PM
    Thanks...I think turnover for sure...looking at my latest workouts (see typical below) I'm only taking about 51  strokes/min on 1:44 100....and 56 on 1:40...I think I need to key on that and play around...I had a Finis Tempo Trainer but it frizzed out...ordered a new one that came in and didn't work...may try again....the below workout was 350 steady warmup (1:51)...150 kick with board and zoomers....5x100 steady....(descended 1:44-1:40)...150 kick with board and zoomers....4x75 + 2 x25 buoy & bands (descendding 1:35-1:30 pace)...200 mixed cooldown Usually easy breast stroke down...hard crawl back..try to avg. under 2:00/100...

    https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1561370045
  • @Joseph Lombardi  Good call on the cadence. I say you alternate 100s in the 5x100 set... Swim / pull / swim.....trying to close that gap by stacking the desired state vs your current "optimal" state. Thoughts?!
  • edited February 10, 2017 5:13PM
    I'll give it a try and see how it feels/goes then report out. Is there any concern about the time it takes to put on bands/buoy between 100's?
  • @Joseph Lombardi - I don't think so. This is about better swimming within the 100s vs what a "good 500" looks like. As we get closer to your races season, we'll be more cognizant of that!!!

    Ps - probably good transition practice!  :smirk:
  • Swim is coming along nicely...still not alot of volume...just focused on better swimming....I had a question about Bike:
    I've been taking liberty with the plan and doing some workouts that I feel better suite my need(s) at the moment...so today I wanted to push big gear/power for semi-long intervals...because I want to break what I consider to be a mental barrier holding me back on the longer sets/FTP..my current FTP is set around 200-210...my best ever FTP has been around 230(2014 the year I was in best shape then broke my collarbone) and think I can get to 250 by end of OS...I have been doing my 8-12minFTP sessions at high end to around 210+ and doing my extended VO2 (up to 1-1:30min) at 270-300+...so today I wanted to see if I could do multiple intervals (3-4min) with shorter recover around 250+...I used Sufferfest PowerStation and rode it pretty well 7x3-3:30 @ avg of 252 with 1:30 recoveries....followed it up with a short 3mile brick that felt good so I'm happy overall...

    https://www.strava.com/activities/874959142
    https://www.strava.com/activities/875032516

    Is this reasonable? I feel I need some big gear work?

  • @Joseph Lombardi - thanks for sharing!!!! I am not sold that a bigger gear is required, although on the trainer it can feel that way. Personally, my bigger FTP work seems to sit at 84 rpms, where Zone 3 is closer to 90 rpms.   :smile:

    What is more important is getting you to spend time at that FTP number in manageable chunks...this is the Five Minute Hack. Taking what you said, I think the only modification is to increase the rest to equal the work interval. Then you increase the intervals over a few weeks to build your tolerance at that new number. 

    ~ Coach P
  • Glad I mentioned this ...the 5MH is exactly what my mind was working at....perfect- I'm going to work this over the next OS block...thanks!...and it all seems to be working...rode outside again yesterday and felt great...need to rebuild comfort in aero but the legs etc. have not only rebounded but making gains....I have two issues at the moment...1.) weight not coming down as expected..and simply not sure why....thought "fat" seems to be coming off (visual v scale)...and body fat% per scale seems to be coming down but weight seems stagnant or declining less than expected since mid january....2.) I know this OS run durablity is less flash than in the past...but I think I need to add some more specific speed session(s) into my week...because I have started at a lower level of run fitness I need to push back my vDot...a'la pushing up the run roof....I'm thinking of doing this on the Wednesday sessions for the next 4-weeks? thoughts?  Thanks 
  • @Joseph Lombardi

    Woohoo, 5MH it is...you're going to like it. 

    Re the fat...yeah, crap is stubborn...but you are trending right, no modifications there.

    Before you hack that run, let's see what the 5MH does for your overall fitness. It's very hard to hack bike and run simultaneously, and remember, running with "durability" doesn't preclude gains. Many folks still see vDOT gains...I'd rather wait until Week 14 test and then we decide!

    ~ Coach P
  • Ok on the run...thanks...ugh...dealing with "spring" cold this week...congestion/headaches...so quick question as I have been taking it easy...this was testing week ( I wasn't going to test anyway) but in terms of TSS isn't test week a bit of a cutback week?
  • @Joseph Lombardi - that's right. It's "Test (and Rest)" week..so not the end of the world. When you do come back, you should take the first few session easy just to shake out the cobwebs. Biggest thing you can muck up is coming back in Zone 5. :smile:

    Have a great weekend!!!

    ~ Coach P
  • edited April 5, 2017 5:29PM
    Great to see you at the Y yesterday and glad things are going well...I have a couple of questions...

    1.) As I mentioned; OS ends next week and was supposed to load up Swim Camp for two weeks then drop into Week 9 for IM plan into LP...I'm not going to do this...I would like to do a Big Bike Week...but assume that this is a single week....What should I do the week following a Big Bike Week...Load up Week 8 start a week earlier...Do Big Bike Week followed by a Swim Camp Week then into Week 9 ...thoughts?

    2.) Regarding Run workouts generally; my gross vDot/speed is not where it has been in the past...for a variety of reasons but my run is coming along and I feel good....I have been adding higher volume of intervals 400--mile and latched on to a plan that would have me alternating normal long run with Marathon-type Mile Interval Workout...so for example that last two weekends I did 10-12 miles as 1-2 Mile warmup 6x8 by 1200 or 1600 at 7:35-7:45 with 400 recovery...cooldown...Here is my thinking...All I want is to run 9min pace on race day...so if I can get to 12-16xmile @ 7:35-7:45 with as little as .10 recovery (maybe actually do it as .90 interval/.10recovery...with warm up and cooldown...??? Thoughts? or a variation on this essentially taking from the Hansons Marathon Method...but just doing the Strength Phase Build...That goes up 6x1mi / 4x1.5/3x2/2x3 at just below planned race pace......for my midweek interval session...then normal long run for other key session...

  • @Joseph Lombardi - SAME!!! You looked really smooth in the water too! 

    1. Yes to no swim camp. I think with the weather being what it is (and likelihood of travel?) you might want to space it out over two weeks...there will be some days where bike is a no go so swim or a steady 45' run at TRP will suffice. The only caveat here is NO INTENSITY as we de-load from the OS, okay?

    2. I like the outline, but I worry about the methodology. If you are running 7:45s (soon to be one mile at 7:45s), remind me again why you can't run 9s on race day? Or rather, I'd like to see: 
    • Can you run steady state 8:30 miles right now? For how long? 
    • What is your "I feel good" off the bike run pace right now?
    Let's dig in a bit more. I like the "fartlek" nature but don't want to over do it if it's not required. 

    ~ Coach P
  • edited April 6, 2017 6:35PM
    Thanks.

    Re: Run....good questions...and frankly I'm not sure how I would answer them.  For most of Jan-Feb I was running 75-90 minutes on Sunday @ ~8:45-9:00...nothing special steady some progressive (always faster second half) and I had not been doing much in the way of faster running at all...no speed work per se.  Frankly I felt sluggish.  Around the end of Feb. I said..man I just don't know how to run fast any more and I've got to do some faster running & intervals ...which I did for month of March   couple of workouts of 2miles of 200's & 400's around 6:45-6:53 (on TM with equal or half recoveries)...& weekends 4-6 miles of 800-1200-1600 at 7:35-7:45 (on TM with 400 recoveries) and some similar paces in Fartlek runs....the Net result was I know feel pretty good and my legs/speed is coming back.   Off the bike I have only done 3-4 miles and it always ends up around 8:35-8:55 depending on the day. I'm going to run 10-12 steady this weekend let me see how that goes and we can talk from there.  The idea of the progression does come directly from Hansons Marathon Method and it is designed to ingrain pace and feel...for them they should be run at just below planned marathon pace so really I would do them at 8:35-8:45...but I liked the idea of building my speed along with the strenght...so thought I could get comfortable doing the work faster...OF COURSE I RECOGNIZE THAT THE REAL KEY TO ANY OF THIS PLAN IS GETTING STRONGER STRONGEST ON THE BIKE IN ORDER OT USE WHATEVER RUN FITNESS I HAVE...to that end bike is coming along and I think I'm rounding up into the best bike shape I have been going into race training so well see how that plays out (still need to lose 5 lbs. but think I will shed that pretty quickly once long rides start....sorry to be so long winded.

    Yesterdays fartlek...with .33-.83 intervals (basically from the Y north on bike trail I run the longer sections between roads hard..and short sections as recovery).

    Splits TimeCumulative TimeMoving TimeDistanceElev GainElev LossAvg PaceAvg Moving PaceBest PaceAvg HRMax HRCalories
    18:47.48:47.48:471.00778:468:456:4513515296
    24:54.713:424:490.61708:067:576:4915515966
    32:53.116:352:530.34078:368:367:1114315934
    43:05.019:403:030.40007:447:396:4015716042
    53:33.523:143:300.427208:238:147:0314615941
    60:39.523:530:360.030025:5823:397:591021561
    76:37.330:316:340.8336368:017:576:4215516285
    82:58.033:292:530.3413138:368:227:2214316233
    95:02.338:314:580.6213208:088:016:2615916268
    101:20.439:511:180.14079:359:188:0813016210
    116:25.446:176:200.8320207:447:376:5516217189
    120:54.247:110:530.080011:0510:507:291171662
    132:29.549:402:280.33007:307:256:5415716632
    141:04.050:441:020.060718:4818:137:3114116610
    152:31.453:162:280.34007:257:156:0415816633
    160:48.354:040:460.08009:429:156:491341655
    Summary54:0454:0454:016.451021358:238:236:04149


  • edited April 10, 2017 11:21AM
    Well pretty decent weekend; Saturday I got outside for 40Miles on the bike yesterday (2:20 in Windy conditions) Solid ride though my PowerMeter died at 1:49 it was around ~200NP for that segment.

    filesystem:https://app.trainingpeaks.com/temporary/131988751_lombaj01.2017-04-08-18-45-22-208Z.GarminPush.10916911818.fit.gz

    Sunday I went out for 10 along the bike trail out and back to Colt State park..legs were tired but went out @ 8:53 avg and back in 8:25 avg - 8:35 overall for 10miles.
    Splits TimeCumulative TimeMoving TimeDistanceElev GainElev LossAvg PaceAvg Moving PaceBest PaceAvg HRMax HRCalories
    18:59.68:59.68:59.61.00779:009:007:37139151105
    28:43.817:438:391.001378:448:397:37148156109
    38:52.026:358:501.0010208:528:506:36149157110
    48:50.535:268:501.001308:518:507:56153155114
    58:55.444:218:551.0013138:568:557:30147153106
    68:34.452:568:331.001378:348:337:37151156108
    78:18.91:01:158:141.007208:198:147:14156162109
    88:23.41:09:388:231.002078:248:236:42154163103
    98:14.61:17:538:121.007138:158:127:10157162105
    104:59.81:22:524:590.58708:398:387:3115215959
    112:10.71:25:032:080.26778:288:177:3314715922
    Summary1:25:031:25:031:25:029.83115988:398:396:36150163

    A decent reflection of where I'm at...my goal is to extend my long rides now and focus on the two key runs...Wednesday with a good does of Speed..and then extend my long runs out to 12/13-15/16??

    I think my Wedesdays will be more of the intervals noted about and my long runs will be steady but with focus on negative splits?...I would like to see overall pace and comfort at pace improve....my average HR should be under 150 for this run (todays) but I think I was tired and the warmth was a change...I didn't drink or gel along the way today....

    Thoughts/comments?
  • @Joseph Lombardi - okay, great to see you at the gym today. You never mentioned the NOVEL you wrote to me in the forums!!!  :smile: Hahahahha. 

    I really like where you are at...for example doing speed work after several weeks of steady is the perfect time (vs just "making up a need for speed" and I like the fartlek style; you won't get locked into a certain pace to time for a slot, just run as best you can until you hit the road / tree / sign. Yes to that on Wed for a total of 60' to eventually 70' (end of month). 

    As for the weekend, keep it at about 90' for now...I'd rather you get slightly faster on the negative split (YES) vs going longer. There's time for longer!

    Fixing those two sessions should let you ride it out. If travel conspires, do the runs Tues/Thurs so you can get out on the weekend when you are home!

    Really pumped where you are at...keep this up and those 5lbs will be gone by 5/1!!!!

    ~ Coach P

  • edited April 19, 2017 12:01AM
    Oh man...bagged a spring cold...I had a great week last week despite travel week - I had some decent runs with a solid fartlek interval-  on Thursday I was back in town..wasnt' going to test but had and awesome ride with a strong 20min section at 250NP around New Meadow which would set a new FTP of 238 up from 220. I think I could be at 250 FTP if I had rested and was actually testing...but either way that is my best ever. (somewhat bitter sweet as by W/Kg isn't much better because my weight is up..3.3 v 3.2...really think I could/should be 250/72 = 3.5...no matter bike is feeling good.....Over the weekend I rode 50 (2:45) on Saturday longest ride to date with some solid work & avg 185NP - Sunday I guess I had a fever but went out and rode...was going to do 2 hrs but cut it short at 1.5...had a bad night...anyway feeling better today but took the day off...I'm trying to decide what to do this week......I could still do Big Bike semi-week...starting tomorrow...Through Sunday...thinking 2 hrs tomorrow; 3-4 on  Wednesday...3-4 on Thursday...Swim on Friday...3-5 on Saturday...2 on Sunday...?? Too Much? Not Enough?...I guess my question is ...what makes a big bike week a Big Bike Week? Number of days riding to the exclusion of other disciplines...or Total Volume? ....or does it really matter? My thought is to hit the bike longer and more often this week...What if I can't hit the full time distance targets due to time? Should I just skip the idea of a Big Bike Week? Maybe just do a Big Bike Weekend/Long Weekend?...ADDENDUM...You can skip reading the above to shorten the pain....So today...Tuesday...tail end of cold  I felt pretty good so my idea is to do some spinning on the bike 1hr...Wed Ride 2-3 hrs. Thursday I was going to ride 2-3 hrs but looks to get washed out...so not sure what to do? swim if possible...Friday Ride 2-3..Saturday ride 3-4hrs Sunday Ride 2-3...Next Week Recovery week of Week 2 of Swim Camp...into IMLP Race Prep...Only Question is that enough bike volume to make this week worthy of "Big Bike Week"? and is the Swim on Thursday ok or should I do easy spin of something?...
  • @Joseph Lombardi

    Ain't that a total PITA. Best laid plans!!!!! 

    There is no "right" way to do a big bike week. In this case just "going bigger than you have gone this year" is considered big. I just rode 2+ hours every other day for three "big" rides in five total days. I am shelled. Not big at all, but for me, BIG. 

    In your case 2:45 is your longest ride this year...so anything over 2 is good...the more 2s you can put together, the better. So don't hit out for 4 just because. You could make the case for a great week with 10 hours of total riding in "digestible" chunks!

    • Tue -  Spin.
    • Wed - 2.5 hours
    • Thu - 2.5 hours (it will be dry)
    • Fri - Friday Swim
    • Sat - 3 hours
    • Sun - 2 hours

    No running here really, that ^above^ is quite a bit of work!!!

    ~ Coach P
  • I hope to see you out there today..going to let it warm up a bit!  :smile::weary:

  • I didn't see ya cuz'  took my bike with me to NJ on business and rode down there on Tuesday & Wednesday 2.5 on Tuesday but had to  cut Wed short ~2 due to work ...feeling really good....looking forward to Saturday & Sunday.  Follow up to earlier...I had two weeks before IMLP Race Prep...this week half sick half bike...for next week recovery? Maybe Swim Camp Week 2?...other Idea? Thanks! 
  • @Joseph Lombardi --  I should have known...next time, I need to pay attention to Strava. I am kinda glad you weren't around on Thursday...I was cooked. 

    I am not sure where your fatigue is at / work. I'd be okay with a one or two more longer bikes, but then swim it out. Something like:

    Mon - Swim
    Tue - Run with pick ups.
    Wed - Bike long 2-3
    Thu - Short swim + Run with pick ups.
    Fri - Swim
    Sat - Ride Long
    Sun - Run 60', chill for monday start

    That's a good starting point!

    p
  • I feel good; today's weather was miserable so cut it at 3 hrs; 2 tomorrow; I like this layout for next  week I wanted to do more riding!
  • Awesome..I'll head back over to Strava!!!
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