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2017 JOS Wk3 Bike Thread - Rule 10 - It never gets easier, you get faster

Welcome to your week 3 bike thread.

As this famous quote by Greg LeMan tells us, training, climbing, and racing is hard. It stays hard. To put it another way, per Greg Henderson: “Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.”

I remembered this during Saturday's slugfest with the gorilla (which he won in the final 8' Z3 interval, if you aren't dying on your final interval, think about whether or not your FTP is set high enough. 

As I often coach people in business to leave their comfort zone and do something that scares them every day, my personal outseason goal is not just the physical workout but learning how to push through the discomfort zone to a new zone of comfort, one that is no easier, but is faster.

Now that we are beginning our third OS week and 2nd full week of WKOs, the rythym and time management of the work should become more manageable as duration of intensity builds, particularly on the bike....

Looking forward to learning from all of your posts as we have a great group here doing a great job of sharing knowledge.

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Comments

  • Good setup for the upcoming week Scott, thanks.  Another travel week for me, but I'm ready for week 3 
  • well said, Scott. I'm constantly reminded every OS that training is more often about becoming reacquainted with discomfort and how to exist in that zone for prolonged periods.  It is an exquisite dance...
  • Like Paul, travel week for me as well.  Did a pre-flight 2X25' at IM watts early since I won't see the bike again until Thursday.....that was the best I could do coming off of the weekend intensity load....

    Have a great week all!

    SS
  • on my side I will only be able to do the bike wkouts during the week end as I will be out of town all week
  • The ebb and flow of the OS.  The last bike felt great this one very difficult. 

    2X10' .97 and .99 2X6' .84 .85.  Glad there was nothing longer and definitely a 'building the mental 6 pack day'.  I had to work through the last 6' of the second 10' interval.


  • Ramped up the intensity on the bike this morning to 102% of goal work. Hit the 2x12' and the 2x7' with solid power. Really looking to raise the floor and ceiling on the FTP and VO2 during the remainder of the JOS. It will be a PM run tonight.
  • Tuesday bike/run is in the history books. 

    I completed the 3 x 11' intervals at 1.0, 1.0 & .96 and a 8' interval at Z3. As Scott stated, it's amazing to me how mentally and physically tough those 8 minutes are at the lower intensity. I think it's truly where the mental game is pushed to another level. 

    I followed the bike with a 20' TRP treadmill run with strides and am happy to have a full day of rest ahead of me now!

    Great work everyone and keep it up! 
  • :p

    Total tech fail on my part this morning.  Apparently my power meter battery died right in the middle of my 2 minute rest between hard efforts, which then caused my Garmin ant to fail - all of which took about 10 minutes to repair so by the time I got back on the trainer, the legs were just mush.  I couldn't even get back into a good warmup rhythm so I went for my 20 minute run instead.  It's all good!  On the plus side I did get my hard ride playlist ready and it was helping me kick butt that first 10 minutes! 

  • As I do all bike wko's early in the OS, I dreaded this morning.  And 4 minutes into that second 11 minutes, those "why do I do this to myself?" thoughts bubbled to the surface.  But I suffered through.  Then the third 11 minutes was easier.  Legs finally coming around, hoping that FTP gets back to its "normal" range after 4 weeks of OS - which seems to be the magical amount of time for me.  It's 63 and sunny outside, so my calendar just got busy from 3-5pm with an out-of-office meeting between me and the pavement.
  • I really like the way you started this thread,Scott. I have always enjoyed sets of long hard intervals on the bike because they end up feeling like such an injection of fitness. I use the latter part of these sets to really think about my form and efficiency on the bike. Rather than just mashing the pedals to hang on to my power do I have a nice smooth pedal stroke using all of my bike muscles? Is my upper body relaxed? Can I comfortably hold aero? Some times with this focus I can actually get a bump in power and a little drop in HR. It also shift the mind away from the discomfort! I've enjoyed all the comments. Happy training!
  • edited January 25, 2017 12:32AM
    OS Wk3 Tuesday ride in the books.  I may have overachieved just a little bit.  Had some pent-up frustration at work that I had to take out on the bike.

    https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/5028573-2017-os-wk3-tue-beg

    Question is, should I think about bumping my my FTP a hair??  Training Peaks suggests I push my FTP up to 182.  Legs felt wobbly trying to walk down the stairs.  A good sign that I pushed it!

  • Thankfully, this ride felt REALLY good. In addition to RPE, I've also been using HR from my sweet spot interval during warmup as an indicator. At the start of the OS, i was hitting 151bpm, today's was only 137bpm (maxed out at 180bpm during testing in week 1). 

    Overall, very happy with the progress so far. Even before the os, was tipping the scales as 232, todays weigh-in was 219. If you trust the body comp scales, my Body fat % is down 10% in the same period of time. 

    To put it in perspective, when I raced tremblant in '14 i was 189..... 
  • Did the Tue ride last night.  Have been lowering the intensity of the FTP intervals in the TR workouts to ~0.96.  I did them as written the first week of the OS, and while they were doable, I felt like my runs may suffer a bit.  Looking forward to the steady run today!
  • Great work going on in here.. I've got some kind of cold/ upper respirotaroy infection.. so I am feeling quite blah.. 
    I went to the gym after work and did a minimal treddy run of just over 3 miles at just over a 9'/mile pace... sloooowww for me... then home and finally pushed self on trainer with a 100.3 fever (I think that raising body core temp from WKo helps kick bugs as well)
    well.. did my warmup, and the first 11' interval saw the gorilla look at me with sympathy as he flicked me off the bike after 8 1/2 minutes... he let me dance around an 8' Z3 interval, and i was happy to take a hot shower and crawl into bed... 
  • Managed to get mine done last evening with 243, 244, 246 W 11 minute segments off a 246 W test.  It's always that first one that's the hardest...and the last few minutes of the last one where I do a little math in my head and let myself count the last 300 rotations to get through.  ;-)

    My treadmill run after was on the slow side, having done it pretty fast on Saturday and suffering too much on Sunday.

    Ultimately, doing the work that lets you do the next day's work is more important than following the workout recipes into a brick wall.

    And Catherine - doing the FTP intervals at 0.96 or so is just fine, assuming you had a good test.  You'll probably be saving yourself from a crash later in the OS if that feels right.  :-)
  • Ultimately, doing the work that lets you do the next day's work is more important than following the workout recipes into a brick wall.

    Best piece of advice I've seen in these three weeks so far - from a WWSM no less!
  • The message of the week really rang true this morning. After a busy last few days of training and work (without optimal recovery) it took an extra bit of discipline to drag myself out of bed and get it done. Once I got a cup of coffee in me, I set TR to 102% and began to grind it out. Within the first minute I knew it wasn't going to be an easy day and that gorilla jumped on my back extra early. The bright spot was the change in the display of TR so it that was interesting, especially as it gives you instant feedback from each interval. Once I stopped feeling sorry for myself, I completed the workout with all intervals above 102% and another great session in the books. Now, I just have to hit the run tonight. As shared above from @Williamand @Scottmentioned, you have to be ready for the next workout! Thankful for compression boots, good nutrition, and the opportunity to go to bed early tonight and get some extra sleep!! Good luck to all!
  • I'm trying to transition from pure OS work to a bit more HIM focus with a 70.3 on the horizon (7 weeks - yikes!).  OS calls for 24x30"/30"@Z5 and HIM plan calls for 6x2' at Z5, so I split the difference and did 12x1'/1'.  Man, that was fun. When you bring pencil quads to a fight, anything north of 300w is real work, even though it didn't jack up my HR or create a puddle of slobber like the Z4 work does. 
  • Hadn't been on the bike since last Thursday when I did Saturday's wo per Coach P vs the 30/30's.  Um, 2x12' ftp yesterday was tough.  Friday was a travel/rest day, but I ran daily including the long runs while gone.  

    Heading downstairs in a few to get the vo2 30/30's in and the brick.  Then party pants time!  Bonus, I have a massage scheduled for tomorrow.  I'm having a couple niggles I need to address and since it's all about consistency for me, better now than later. 
  • Thursday bike/brick is complete. I bumped up the wattage 3% (285 watts) this week on the 30" intervals this and felt pretty good doing so. 

    Like Mike, the short Z5 work doesn't seem to make me slobber on myself like the long Z4 has and I'm glad to have the weekday bike work complete. 

    I'm planning to lift weights in the morning and have a short TRP run sometime later tomorrow. 

    Great work everyone and keep it up!
  • Well I got up early to get the bike in before work and found my trainer tire was flat.  Changed it but by the time I had done that I didn't have anywhere close to the full hour for the work out.  So I switched the run and bike.  Did the run early and the bike after a short work day in the afternoon.  I will be so happy when my computrainer finally dies and I can get the kicker or neo so I won't ever have to change a flat trainer tire again.  They almost always flat at the beginning of the workout or sometime in the middle. Computrainer 12 years old and still going strong.

    2X12 30/30's done.
  • I switched like Mike and did  the workout as 12 x 1', although I took 2' rest interval; my HR was really up there at the end of each minute (165+).  It was a good variation from the 30/30 sets!

    https://www.strava.com/activities/845447430

    Right-side power meter still isn't recording on the single-leg spins; changed the P1 battery but no reading; may need to remove and re-add from the Garmin

  • @Tom B: I put the Continental Home Trainer tire on my CT, it solved the flat-tire issue
  • After all these years, I am still learning how to do 30/30s.  As I age a bit, I warm up more slowly, and find that they tend to get a little easier as I go on.  Sometimes I wonder if I'm not doing them hard enough... but I still gauge these mostly by feel, even when I have the PM.  My goal on a 30/30 is to do them hard enough that doing it for a minute more than a few times in a row would be really hard, but not so hard that I destroy myself or find myself fading during the 30 seconds.

    My warmup is a bit old school  (at least for EN), in that I do the 5' easy, 5' alternating 1/1/1/1/1 FTP/easy/FTP/easyFTP, then 5 minutes of recovery pushing up to about 85%.  Those 1 minute FTP are often some of the hardest intervals of the day.  ;-)

    Anyway, my Z5 is 260-280.  Here are the average powers I hit:, 293, 287, 287, 287, 292, 296, 290, 289, 295, 288, 309, 311, 291, 303.  (evidently I can't count or add)
    Second set:  304, 291, 303, 312, 325, 338, 303, 314, 318, 305, 323, 303, 317

    So obviously, I don't have the self control I should.  Either that, or I really need to work more on my FTP, because I swear, I'm not really killing myself on these and could do another set of a dozen without a lot of strain.  This is my easy bike workout for the week.

    So I ask those that have experience thinking about VO2 vs FTP...any thoughts?

    (And yes, I got my treadmill brick run in...nothing too exciting there.)
  • still fighting the bug, got on the trainer and just my warm up spin felt hard. I generally have no problem with 30/30s, finding myself struggling on the last few of each set, I barely got through the first one and quit... this bug SUCKS!!! (sorry to rant & be negative...) hoping to kick it.. 
  • @William -- I'm with you on the VO2 wko being the easy one for the week.  I haven't thought about it a lot, other than noticed that when doing FTP tests, I consistently overperform the 5-min VO2 interval, relative to FTP.  I guess that gives me a higher roof to build my FTP ceiling under.  But I tend to stick with the prescribed wko, even if it seems easier than I think it should be -- I've never finished an OS, and this year I'm willing to underperform slightly to make it all the way through.

    So ... nothing to add other than +1!
  • Hello William - good post!  Your warm-up is really good IMO.  I need to get HR into at least Z3 on warm-up or the first several intervals are too easy (and thus are of much lower quality).  I like the 30-second spins and single-leg spins, then add 3-4 3x1 at FTP.

    Your second 30-second set was consistently higher than the first; seems like power should be in the 300-325 range. Or maybe even higher.  Our Z5 power range tops out at 120% of FTP -- for me that's too low for super-short sprints.  Nothing wrong with 140% in my book so long as you can recover quickly and be steady across all the intervals.  (As a disclaimer, I take 45 seconds of rest, 30 is too short)
  • Strong group here reading all the posts so far in week 3!  Scott, feel better soon!

    I returned from NYC business trip Wed night...got on the bike yesterday after work and buried myself:
    https://www.strava.com/activities/845432548

    Traveling throws everything out of whack to say the least.....reading your posts puts everything back in order!

    SS
  • @Scott--Rest, recover and feel better. 

    @William--I have the same thoughts regarding the 30 second intervals. The longer zone 4 work is much harder for me than the shorter zone 5 work. The shorter intervals are also my "easy" day. I am thinking of riding the zone 5 intervals at a higher watts next week to see if it negatively impacts my runs. 

    I did complete both the Tuesday and Thursday rides this week. I had to push the Thursday ride to this morning due to work and hockey. I am still getting back into the swing of things with my run following the Disney marathon, but the bike is back.
  • edited January 27, 2017 4:57PM

    @William - Like you I find the 30/30's the easier bike workout of the week.  I've always had room between my ceiling and roof 1.20+.  I did not put my 5' test number in the week one run thread but it was over 250 which is what my 208 FTP 20' test designates for my upper z5 numbers (z5 229-250).  I know I could have pushed harder over the 5' test but did not totally bury myself so I could get in a good 20' test, basically I went controlled but hard.  If I had to do an all out 5' test I honestly think 260-270 would be doable, maybe 275. 

    So what does this say I am a better at short bursts, maybe have a better capacity to handle anaerobic exercises.  I did a lot of this kind of stuff for 18 years but that was also 20 years ago.  Additionally given the previous OS's 30/30's were at the high end Z5 with the 60% over the back half of the 30".  I find the low Z5 (229 for me) a little too easy and am considering going back to the old protocol upper Z5 with 30" at 60% for the rest period.  The real rest will come between the sets.  Further if I recall correctly there was less recovery time between sets, currently for the beginner OS 5' between 2X(6 X30/30).  I'll try to look up an old plan at home.  I know in week two my HR did not get in to the 160's for the 1st set of 30/30 and just barely got there for the second.  Max HR was 177 and 180 for the two tests I've done this year so no where near working hard enough in my opinion. 

    Finally the old school VO2 work had us doing 1', 1.5' and even 2' vo2 at the upper limit.  So in the past we have done a higher intensity, with a prescribed lower bound on the recover time 60% and less recovery time between sets. 

    Personally I liked the 1' to 1.5' VO2 sets even at the upper z5(250) watts.  My caveats are I'm not running much, going for 15-20' this week and I came in to the OS in very bad shape.  Going forward I'm still considering lengthening out the intervals to 1' but keep the low Z5.  I may also institute the lower bound of 60% for the 1' recovery.  I know right now they are too easy but I'm very cognizant of the fact that too much intensity will bite me very fast given my fitness coming in.  We both also know the fatigue that mounts over the OS so finding that line of working hard enough to get good gains versus maximizing gains could push you in to overtraining. 

    Having said that I do want to get in all my workouts in so I am still following the plan but was thinking about starting a thread with Coach Rich in the macro forum about this after another week or two.  My schedule's off and will be doing the 30/30's today after work so yet to do week 3's vo2 bike efforts.

    edit

    Maybe we should take this to the general discussion forum to get more eyes on it.

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