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2016/17 NOS Week 13 Bike Thread - Knowledge Gained

Welcome to the week 13 bike thread of the 2016/2017 November OutSeason bike thread.  The workouts this week are basically the same as last week's with a little bit of variation on the Tuesday intervals.  This is the last full week of work on the bike before we test next week.

There is a great video / podcast from Coach P. One of the key topics he discusses is changing the focus (for a lot of you) on improving the "far".  Take a look (or listen) when you get a chance.

It would be great if you all will continue to post on the challenges, successes and questions regarding your workouts this week.  Also, take a moment to share what you learned.  I know we joked about the gorilla quite a bit, but there seemed to be a theme that getting over the mental challenge of the interval will take care of the physical challenge.  In other words, your capable of more than what the mind wants you to believe.  I recall many of you giving examples of overcoming the mental challenges to meet the physical demands of a hard interval.

Good luck and have Fun!
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Comments

  • Knocked out my intervals this morning. Legs felt heavy as soon as I got on the bike.  Hoping to get my FTP higher, so I slightly moved up the power on each interval - 100.5%,101.5% and103%.  On the last one, I could only focus on my breathing.  I couldn't maintain consistent cadence. 

    My FTP only moved up slightly on my last test at week 8.  I am hoping to get a few more points before I transition into swim camp. 

    Since this was only a 75-minute ride, I consumed about 350 calories.  A powerbar and coffee at 5 am - 15minutes beforehand.  Then a bottle of diluted electrolyte drink.  Also, took a small amount of gel to motivate me for the last interval.  

    I know that I should have sufficient glycogen reserves to get through this ride without additional calories.  However, I found that I struggled earlier in the OS if I rolled out of bed and then directly got on the bike. I'm not sure if the early hour makes me want to consume calories or because these rides get intense so quickly.  Honestly, I am new to all this and just expirementing with nutrition for these workouts.  

    Hope everyone has a good ride today.  
  • I have struggled mightily since the test.  Seems I can gut out the Tuesday and Thursday bike, come Saturday, I'm having a very difficult time holding FTP for the second, and shorter, intervals.  Keep telling myself to do the best I can.  Keep waiting for the fitness gains to settle in so the FTP work will be more consistent.  Patience is a hard thing.
  • It took several minutes to decide whether to workout this AM or PM.  Figured I would feel mentally drained by this PM so I knocked it out this AM.  Actually, the workout knocked me out!  I'm dealing with two very sore quads right now...they have never been this sore in the past.  Maybe I should have ran to help flush out the lactic acid.  Anyway, I did the best I could knowing I was still carrying fatigue from Saturday's workout. The 3x15' intervals were 1.0, .96, .91. I know the third interval would be too tough to hit FTP, so I focused on .93-.94. There will be no sitting at the office today. Hopefully my quads will feel better after tonight's run. 

    Hope everyone have a good workout.

  • Oh dear - my wheels are wobbling!  That was tough, but kept telling myself it was almost the last hard workout.  This OS thing has been good - really excited about the fitness gains.  Hope they continue through the season.

    @Brian - here is what tricks I have used:
    - the motivation from this group is a real thing.  Helps knowing others are out there doing the same crazy stuff
    - I try to picture myself in a race, riding strong, passing others.  Dorky, but it works
    - I think about all the injuries I have overcome to become strong again.  Works every time!
    - Last resort - I make my husband start doing cheers on the sidelines  :D
  • @Derrek - Damn fine effort this morning. I'm sore just reading it.
  • HOLY CRAP that was a monster on tap for today.  I was pretty beat up from physical therapy and had trouble spinning up into the 90's. Took some extra time to warm up the legs and thought of just hitting 4x9' and call it good enough. After watching the video Dave Tallo posted on mental focus, good enough just wasn't going to cut it.

    18'@ .97
    12'@ .97
    10'@ .96

    The gorilla is officially lights out for the night.

    Things learned:
    - I can always go longer and harder than I think I can
    - There is always something left in the tank
    - Focus is a trained skill.
  • Well I tried something different last night.  I usually have the TrainerRoad connected to my trainer and power meter in erg mode and Zwift up in the background just to give me something to watch.  Yesterday I paired my computrainer to Zwift only and did the mountain climb for the FTP intervals.  I am not sure why, but the time went by way faster.  I also had to change gears quite a bit as the slope changed, so it felt a bit more like real world outside.  I did have a few technical issues and one bone head issue when my bike fell out of the trainer during the warm up (I thought of Leslie for some reason).

    So if you are not familiar with the mountain climb on Zwift...  One side is longer but not as steep.  I did that first.  Then there is an add on to go up to the radio tower.  I did that second.  Then I recovered for a bot to go all the way down the back side and then up.  The back side is very steep.  I was over an hour in at that point and it was pretty tough.  So the three sections ended up @:

    26:24 @ 1:01 (Front Side)
    06:36 @ .97 (Tower)
    18:46 @ .96 (back side)

    Things I learned:
    - I am very motivated by this group dynamic and having some accountability with posting my experiences
    - Consistency is very beneficial and inconsistency requires adjusting targets
    - Nutrition is just as important with and hour long intense workout as the longer ones.
  • @Brian Hagan I think I'd like Zwift...looks really fun.  I got mine done on Tuesday as 20', 12', 8' all right on 100%.  Was easier than last week, but I wouldn't say it was at all easy.  Procrastinating as I type waiting to start Thursday's ride.
  • Knocked out my VO2 workout this morning. 14x30-second intervals.  TrainerRoad had them set at 120%. I stuck with the beginner set.  I felt good, so I notched up the power until I was at 127% at the end.  New orthotics still feel good.  Didn't consume many calories on the bike - just two small sips of gel before each set and a diluted electrolyte drink.  No time for the run. Hoping to hit the TM at work gym.  

    Agree with Bill - Brian - Zwift looks like an interesting alternative to intervals.  

    Hope everyone has a good ride and that we all get a healthy bump up in our FTP next week. 

  • Got the 16x30/30s done early this morning and will run later this afternoon after work.  Legs felt really heavy and I found myself holding my breath.  Any pointers on breathing during cycling?? Seems like a dumb question but it's something I wondered about this morning.  Worked on my nutrition, especially after attending the webinar last week, that's something I need to continue to incorporate.  Looking forward to next week!  Keep it up everyone!
  • Adding my "things I learned"

    - Engaging in the OS Forums keeps you motivated and accountable....it should be highly encouraged for all.
    - Don't follow the training plan into a brick wall. Everyone absorbs/recovers from intense workouts differently and you must monitor your own fatigue levels and take recovery days as needed.
    - Work works and hard work works even better.  The harder you work in the OS the more improvements you'll see this spring/summer.


  • Well I tried something different last night.  I usually have the TrainerRoad connected to my trainer and power meter in erg mode and Zwift up in the background just to give me something to watch.  Yesterday I paired my computrainer to Zwift only and did the mountain climb for the FTP intervals.  I am not sure why, but the time went by way faster.  I also had to change gears quite a bit as the slope changed, so it felt a bit more like real world outside.  I did have a few technical issues and one bone head issue when my bike fell out of the trainer during the warm up (I thought of Leslie for some reason).

    So if you are not familiar with the mountain climb on Zwift...  One side is longer but not as steep.  I did that first.  Then there is an add on to go up to the radio tower.  I did that second.  Then I recovered for a bot to go all the way down the back side and then up.  The back side is very steep.  I was over an hour in at that point and it was pretty tough.  So the three sections ended up @:

    26:24 @ 1:01 (Front Side)
    06:36 @ .97 (Tower)
    18:46 @ .96 (back side)

    Things I learned:
    - I am very motivated by this group dynamic and having some accountability with posting my experiences
    - Consistency is very beneficial and inconsistency requires adjusting targets
    - Nutrition is just as important with and hour long intense workout as the longer ones.
    I actually really enjoy doing my FTP work and intervals during Zwift races!  You can pick flat races or hilly races.  During a race, you really don't want to lose that group that you are racing against as you can never catch back up.  Doing the short intervals during a race results in me going past some people, then those same people passing me, and back and forth.  Those people must think I'm nuts.  During long intervals, no one notices.  Make sure and get warmed up for the start as the races are very fast during the first minute or two till a group is formed.  I work much harder than I would alone.  Many times during a multi-lap race I dont think I will keep going, but somehow I manage to keep going.  One other thing you can also do on Zwift if you have a smart trainer is to control how much Zwift controls the trainer and how much you control the trainer. You still have to do the work required to get up a hill if Zwift doesn't control the trainer, but you wont have to switch gears if you don't want. 

  • I'm not sure how I managed it, but rolled out of bed at 4 am to get it done this morning. 

    8x1'@ 1.15 average
    8x1'@ 1.20 average

    Feeling pretty wiped out afterwards, part from the hard effort and part from yesterday's -500 calorie deficit.
  • @Tim Sullivan - Interesting!  I was thinking of trying the Tuesday KISS race instead of a standard FTP wko.  When I do the 30/30s, I feel like people may think I am annoying, but I usually get by them (or them by me) at soon enough.  Also, I have a computrainer, so I will try adjusting next time.
    @Bill McKinney - I believe you get a free 7 day trial.  I really think we could do some fun things as a team/club online.
    @Phil Mills - Well done - Anyone would feel wiped out after that!
    @Sabra Gonzalez - Breathe!  I know there was somewhere I used to do that and someone would tell me to breathe.  maybe yoga....  I've been trying to use @Phil Mills breathing tricks to keep my HR down.  It works, but I have to remember to do it.
    @Patrick Marsh - Well done at 127%

    Going to get mine done a couple of hours.  I think I may go have a coffee....
  • @Brian - Yep, I've been playing around with different breathing patterns to keep down my HR, sometimes as much as 10 bpm. Definitely needed do to lack of cardio fitness these past weeks. 

    Another thing I have learned this OS:
    The run has a significant, positive impact on bike fitness.  My bike HR has gone through the roof (+10 bpm) since I've been in run jail.
  • Windows is killing my wko tonight!

  • Rode 70 miles today - 35 out and back
    t - 3:21, spd - 20.65, np - 183w, tss - 196, if - .762, ftp - 240w, hr- 137 average,only 7 additional minutes off bike for stop lights and nature break

    very windy today- used zipp 303's - no issues

    Carried and drank  3 water bottles @ 440 calories and 400 mg sodium each bottle, plus 2 salt stick tabs per hour (400 mg) for a total of 800 mg sodium per hour 

    used only liquid nutrition - I did have 6 power gels on board - but didn't use them

    per my sweat tests I am losing 1 to 2 lbs per hour depending on temperature- today was up to 80 deg during ride - so somewhat warm

    Sodium loss is therefor @ 300 to 600 mg per hour/lb or approx 600 to 1200mg+ total per hour 

    I replaced approx 800 mg per hour of sodium

    i felt strong today and not energy or sodium limited -
    and felt fine after ride

    I would have liked more to drink - so  I will use bigger bottles on next ride - and maybe carry a 4th bottle if I ride 70+

    How long (time and miles) do I need to ride for 70.3?

    is 60 enough? or is 70 enough?

    i went through 56 miles today in 2:41 (I am 65+) even with strong headwinds

    a good ride today

    riding long again on Sunday


  • I got today's done too...2 x 16 30/30...kept them all right around 255-260.  Hard!
  • I did 2x20 30/30s this evening all at Z5+ 10-30 watts. Solid workout!

    @Arnold, check out the EN HIM training plan, I think you build up to 4-5 hour rides. The plan uses times.  That was a great ride.

    @Brian, it took my computer a few days to update. Luckily I can use the TR app on my Samsung smart phone.
  • Jumped to week 14 because I have a 1/2 marathon Saturday. Tested today 3/10s mph faster with avg HR 3 bum lower. Also faced a 15 mph headwind for 2/3 of the trial. I'm gonna give myself a Mulligan and test again next Thurs. Was pleased with my ability to stay aero however. I thing OS and the bike fit I had a couple of weeks ago are starting to make things happen a little bit. 
  • Things I learned. 
    I love being part of EN team
    ive got to get serous with weight loss. 
    Im getting used to the aero bars 
    Even though I'm still an elephant among cheetahs I'm a faster and stronger elephant. 
    After 18 weeks I'm ready for some racing. 
    Thanks Derek and everyone for the encouragement and insight. 
  • @arnoldschmidt -  The HIM plan maxes at 180 minutes.  4 hours at 76% is too long and easy for HIM training (IMO).

    Bike: Long
    WU: 20' to 30' @ Zone 1
    MS1:4 x 10' (5') @ Zone 4, 10' Easy. 
    MS2: 5 x 15' (2') @ Zone 3
    MS3: Remainder @ Zone 2 to Zone 3, in the aerobars, practicing steady riding: no surges, constant power, etc.
  • @Derrek Sanks I was thinking of how pathetic it was that I could not do a bike wko without a laptop.  I thought of @Shaughn Simmons and others that crank out all of these wkos with a "dumb" trainer and power meter or just heart rate or RPE.  So I rode a little bit without the trainer un-plugged.  I am ashamed to admit..... I lost interest.  I am going to do the wko tonight.  I am doing the weekend ride on Sunday, so it should not affect it too much.
  • @David Holmes Good luck with the half marathon!
  • @ arnold - damn strong work.... I would load up the HIM plan if you need guidance on how much bike work is required.  The plan focuses on amount of work vs. total miles and provides good guidance on intensities and total weekly TSS load needed to condition you for that bike leg of an HIM event.

    Lot of monsters in this group aka (Gorilla Slayers)  You guys are coming to the end of you OS and exiting with a very high fitness level positioning you well for entry into the spring season!  Congratulations!

    Work travel/stress this week.  Made it home Wed night, got on the bike last evening, it sucked:
    https://www.strava.com/activities/845432548

    KMF!
  • Knocked out the long Saturday ride this morning.  Felt good.

    I maintained a very cadence during the 100% FTP sets - ~100-105 RPM.  Felt like I was making circles, and maintaining constant pressure through the full rotation, but wondering if 105 is too high.  If I go faster, then I would start losing control but I am trying to keep my cadence high in the belief that I will be able to run better off the bike with fresher legs.  

    Moved up the power on the last two 10-minute sets to 102-104%.  Since I felt better, I didn't take in a lot of extra calories.  Just two sips of gel. 

    I'm at a personal all-time high FTP, but hoping to pick up a little more power before we finish the NOS.  

    Hope everyone had a good ride today. 


  • edited January 29, 2017 3:38AM
    @Patrick Marsh - Strong work!  If that cadence is working for you, stay with it.  My cadence on the trainer varies: FTP intervals = 87-88 rpm and Vo2Max intervals = 94-95 rpm.  Outside my cadence is 90-96.

    My Saturday bike workout went surprisingly well. Legs felt great after the first interval. My power went up each interval and the fourth one was almost unbelievable...to the point where I wanted to stop and re-calibrate my PM.  If my PM was accurate, my FTP just bumped up several points after a 3-4 week plateau.  Hopefully, I can validate this during Tuesday's workout and have a great test on Thursday. The 4x15' were at .98, 1.01, 1.05, 1.11; then 2x7 both at .86

    https://www.strava.com/activities/847370193

  • You will see pros that have cadence for IM distance races anywhere from 80 - 95....it appears to be a very individual thing.  For me I tend to be in the lower 80s.   I'm not one for focus on cadence much because, at the end of the day, all I really care about is how much sustained power I can deliver to the back wheel and the amount of work I have done in terms of NP load over the duration of that wko or race.  I can deliver the same amount of load/NP using a 81 or a 90 cadence but the work that just got done and the amount of fatigue in my legs is still basically the same.

    Yesterday limited for time in between 4 conference calls, I squeezed in a 3X16' FTP set: https://www.strava.com/activities/847473637

    SS
  • In order to gain back the fitness I've lost from a hamstring strain, I decided to take a step back on duration and focus on intensity.  Taking two weeks off of the bike and 5 weeks from running has put a huge hole in my OS training.  This week, I plan to drop into the JOS group to pick up where I left off.

    2x6'@ 1.02 & 1.00
    3x8'@ 1.01, .99 & 1.02

    The last 8' set was brutal.  I had to forgo movie watching (Ironman) for motivation and switch to AC/DC concert videos.  Made all of the difference. Completed my first brick run in 6 weeks and actually felt like I was training again. 

    @Brian - Thanks for leading us through the last 13 weeks, much appreciated. 
  • @Phil Mills - Smart move on rolling in JOS.  Glad your hammy is better!
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