Larry Steinberg Micro Thread

Larry Steinberg

Hello - I'm getting started w/the OS plan in February w/run durability. I've been cycling consistently but not running much. I've gotten out for a 20-30 min run about once a week for the last two months. How do you suggest I ramp up my running for a HIM in June - I'd like to avoid injury?  Thanks in advance.

Larry

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg  Great question! The OS plan has two "Serious" run sessions on Wed / Sun, and then bricks on Tues / Sat.  So four runs a week. 

Goal 1: Get you to running 4x a week. 

Preparing for a Half means we'd like you to be averaging 24-26 miles per week for about 6 weeks.

Goal 2: Avg 24-26 miles (min) for 6 weeks pre race. 

Minus a taper week, that means starting by 5/8 and ending by 6/18. So we have from now 2/6 until 5/7...or 13 weeks. 

Here's what I suggest for you: 

• First Three Weeks = Frequency (thru 2/26). This means run 4 x a week per the plan, but for one mile only. 
• Next Three Weeks = Durability (2/27 thru 3/19). This means keeping Tue/Sat to just one mile, but adding walk time to your Wed + Sunday Sessions. Think walk 15 to warm up, run 1/2 mile, brisk walk for same time, run 1/2 mile, brisk walk again. 
• Final Six Weeks = Volume Across Board (3/20 to 5/1).  By this point, your Tues/Sat runs are still short. We are going to add 5' to each session per week...so that by week 6 you are at your "old" mile + 30 minutes. Not shabby! Same on Sat.  Your Wed/Sunday sessions should be close to an hour in duration...so we are going to "back fill" in the running. So keep the hour, but every week replace 5' of walking with 5' of running.  Essentially your Bricks get longer while your Run Days get harder. 

Then we can work on integrating you into final block of your HIM plan!

What do you think? 

~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

Patrick - thanks for the input. This seems conservative but is probably to ensure I ramp up healthy. Thanks!

Larry

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg - it is (I am pretty conservative) but the most important part is to be conservative early. If May you wants to be reckless, I am okay with that as Feb/Mar/Apr you was smart!  


~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

Coach P,

I've done some searching around but haven't found specific recovery guidance. It doesn't look like recovery weeks are built into the plans so that's on me to schedule. During OS I was traveling a lot so recovery was sort of built in but (fortunately) I've been off the travel road since I started my HIM plan. I'm starting to get drained and have another week w/o travel - so I'm trying to get all the workouts in. I'm dragging now (and 49) - curious of the approach? Stick to the high pri workouts and cut out the lows and some of the mediums?

Also - I'm curious on what comes next wrt to running. I'm executing the run plan well and am ~95% healthy. I have altered slightly such that my 'long' run of the week will be 5-10 min longer than the others. Overall I'm running 10 mpm based on keeping my HR low. So how do I integrate this progress into my HIM plan starting after 5/1?

Thanks,

Larry

Coach Patrick

@Larry Peters- 

 You are right, recovery is on you. It really depends on your work schedule and how your training plays out. Since my schedule is flexible, I end up doing my big workouts on Friday and Saturday, and I use Sunday as an optional day. In your case, you might want to make that a Monday.

 Odds are you'll miss the swim, but it's not the end of the world. We will need that break at some point.

Other people arrange it a little differently. They will go almost 2 weeks at a time and then take a day off. I can work with you depending on what your schedule looks like.

 I'm really excited to hear about your run. As you get into the season now, more important that we get a little more race specific with your pace. If you could, take a second and let me know what your target places for race day. I can then work with you to help narrow the gap between your training now and that goal pace.

Have a great Easter! 

Larry Steinberg

Thanks for the response. Being more specific - I don't see 'recovery weeks' built into the plan. So you're saying to take days off as I need them? Pretty straight forward.

re my paces for race day - simple question, complex answer. I've been out of triathlons for about 8 years (long IM burnout...) except for a few xterra's and sprints I didn't take too seriously. Been mostly mountain biking and very little running. So this HIM race is really about what I can do now - I want to do more than just survive but have been away from running for some time. I believe what needs to happen - now that I feel fairly good, I'll do a run test to assess where I am. Then expect to build some speed but prioritize run health first.  Let me know if I'm at least directionally correct. My primary goal for the race is to execute well. Having time goals for the swim and bike will be easy to identify. Traditionally I'm fantastic at melting down during the run of longer tri's (hence my goal of executing well)... I don't have enough 'input' now to come up with a running pace goal.

Larry Peters

@Coach Patrick

Did you tag the wrong Larry here? Regardless, I appreciate learning from your discussion with @Larry Steinberg. Good luck @Larry Steinberg!

Coach Patrick

@Larry Peters - sorry...you guys are neighbors in the username list!!!

@Larry Steinberg - Yes, you roll your own. I recommend picking "a rest day" in your week and we can build around it as needed. That's what I am here for. 

Yes to the run test, but if you have a good internal pace-o-meter, we can use that too. We build the run with Durability / Consistency first, speed second; I think it will be a very easy transition for you as it's not about really pushing harder here but being consistent. 

We don't need goals at the outset re pace, but we can get you started on the nutrition (that's what helps off set your breakdown on race day). Tell me what you normally eat / drink on the bike and run. Bonus if you have amounts (aka 24 oz of Gatorade Endurance per hour). 

As for the HIM plan, we can keep you rolling when we get there. The Half plan has a slightly different run schedule....you can learn more about it here: http://members.endurancenation.us/TrainingPlan/TrainingPlanCentralPage.aspx#half

Please keep those questions coming!!!

~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

Next week is #12 on the HIM plan for me. I've been following the bike and swim per the plan but your run guidance. LMK your suggestion on ramping up my run. Today is a big volume day...

I'll do my run test next week (which per your guidance is 4x40' runs - that durability plan is working well- knock wood).

Re eat/drink on bike/run - I don't have a precise answer for you. I've not been great at this in the past and I've only done 1 long tri in the last 8 years (xterra Maui last Oct).  For that I drank about 1 bottle with 1/2 diluted inifinit (3hr+) formula and a half clif bar an hour. So around 250 cals per hour. On the run I ate one clif blok a mile until I couldn't stomach anything else. My stomach is a challenge generally on the run.  I'll be practicing my fueling strategy during the race rehearsals. Also will do the sweat test today on the volume ride.  I race at 195# so the fueling might be light but I am always concerned about my stomach. Do you suggest I take in >250cal per hour? I can practice that.
 
Thanks!

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg - I can see from Strava that you are taking a rest day, excellent!  

As for managing the run buildup, we still need to be careful.I see that you're averaging about Eleven to twelve miles a week. I'd like to get that up closer to 20 miles, Which is essentially 1 1/2 times race distance. So keeping with the same process around your runs (Minimal intensity please), you would aim for these weekly targets:

• 5/01 - 15 miles
• 5/08 - 18 miles
• 5/15 - 12 miles
• 5/22 - 18 miles
• 5/29 - 20 miles

The only caveat is we don't want any single run to be longer than 6 miles...can you do that?

Once we get through May, then you can do a few "longer" runs in Early June to get set!

~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

@Coach Patrick  - thanks for checking in on Strava! It's great to see how tech can help the EN biz model.  I will abide by the guidance.... Thanks, I'll check back in after a few weeks.

Larry Steinberg

Clarifying question re your buildup suggestion above - starting at 15miles for 5/1. I just finished the 4x40min week and ran 16 miles. Did you take this week into account when setting the 15miles OR should I go for 18 miles this coming week. Basically increasing each week's mileage suggestion above by 2 miles? Thanks

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg - yes to a slight increase each week....or every other week (like every two weeks).

Just increase the TIME, not the distance. By increasing the time, the distance will come on it's own. We aren't in a rush, per se, rather we want it to increase it at a rate you can handle vs chasing an "specific" run distance. 

Sorry be so vague, but I want you to focus on the process (inputs) not the results (outcomes). 

~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

Hey @Coach Patrick

Checking in here. Over the last 6 weeks I've incrementally increased my weekly run duration (h:mm):  2:00, 2:20, 2:40, 2:40, 3:00, 3:20.  No run over 60 minutes. Life is interrupting my bike and swim but I've kept on the run increase. Knee issue is good. I'm now 5 weeks out from CdA 70.3. I'll keep increasing the weekly duration - understand the target is 24-26 miles/week for 70.3.

My question is about the long run - I'm getting anxious not having a run over 60 minutes. What do you think about:

• 5 weeks to go: long run of 70 min
• 4 to go: 85 min
• 3 to go: 100 min
• 2 and 1 - shorter

Open to other wisdom as well.  Thanks in advance.

Coach Patrick

Larry...I like where you are at, and we should celebrate the run stuff. Technically you don't NEED a long run to be successful on race day. You muscles have done the work, it's your brain. 

Only caveat to that ^above^ is the nutritional plan. Long runs help you refine that, so that could be a problem. 

I would prefer you stack your runs like AM/PM to get your longer ones in...IOW, I'll take a 60 AM, 40PM run...is that a possibility? 

If not, let me know and we can craft a plan B!

~ Coach P

Larry Steinberg

@Coach Patrick

I can stack my runs (won't really look forward to it, but it's temporary  ).  Trying not to be too dense here - is 60AM and 40PM the starting point or do I build up to this with other combos - 60/20, 60/30, ...

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg -  i'm not sure anybody looks forward to it, but it is effective! No, I was referring to the longest run on your calendar as the best way to split it. Any run longer than an hour can be split so you could do 4040 or 4535 or 5030 or 5040, etc. I gently run longer first and then finish it up in the afternoon. 

Team Endurance Nation

@Larry Steinberg - good to talk the other day!  You still have time to get faster by the end of the year, since the volume from CDA is already in the bank.

That means you can do some intensity mid-season and have some fun (if you want) before you choose either black diamond or Augusta. Remember the big delta to the end of season races is just how hot they can be (vs the early ones) so use your training time now to improve your hydration.

Regardless, we want to get you on the train of running consistently...this will help boost your run durability and set the tone for your 2018 season. Let me know if you have any questions!

Larry Steinberg

Thanks for the call and notes. I've been inconsistent for a couple of weeks catching up on work travel and a week of vacation with the family. I'm back on track this week with run consistency (despite work travel again). On the call you stated a week could look like: 1x60 min run Z2, 3x3mi with some speedwork - like mile repeats or fartlek. Can you be more specific wrt workouts? I'm doing a xterra in 4 weeks and then an olympic 4 weeks after that. I've decided not to do another 70.3 this fall but would like to build speed for these two races.  

I'm following the Short Course Advanced plan. The Vo2 intervals are 3 min. FWIW - this week I did 4x2/2 to test out how I could handle the work. Feel pretty good the day after. There are also a couple of 'negative' bricks each week. Looking for some guidance on how to tweak the runs.  As for the bike, I'm happy to be back on my mountain bike for a few weeks!

I did sign up for Oceanside in April - my first race at 50...hope to set another PR (CdA was a PR). 

Thanks.

Coach Patrick

@Larry Steinberg -  happy to help! What I'm looking for here is just some burst of speed during your running. Considerate strides plus some lactic acid. :-) I would consider it something as follows:

Ron 15 to 20 minutes to warm up. Then do 2x to 3x 3' (3') intervals at 5K pace or just faster. During the recovery you can walk the first minute then jog the next two.

Start off with doing that once in the first week the rest of your runs can be steady at TRP pace.  The next week you can bump up to two of those sessions but that's the max.

 As for the negative split bricks we are just looking for you to be able to manage pace changes off the bike. Nothing too flashy here, just follow the work out.