2017 JOS Wk 8 Bike Thread - Like you have a gun to your head Pt Deux
Ok - got confused on weeks last week, must have been the altitude in Steamboat.
nothing Sells like the dequel of a hot topic. This is the week we validate what we have or not accomplished. For many it will be a pat on the back, for some that haven't put in the work for various reasons, it will be a wake up call that we're halfway through the OS. For ALL, there is still plenty of time for hard work and measureable
For those that are newer to EN and Testing, hopefully the last few weeks have shown you hard, "hard" is. The test is the time to dial it in and do your hardest. The original EN testing protocal was to do 2x20 intervals "like you have a gun to your head." The protocol further stated that you should get off your bike with legs shaking and possibly puking
I am looking forward o seeing some great results, questions and the always lively discussion
As your moderator, I am plugging into week 17 of the HIM plan as I finalize prep for IM PR 70.3
Carry on!
nothing Sells like the dequel of a hot topic. This is the week we validate what we have or not accomplished. For many it will be a pat on the back, for some that haven't put in the work for various reasons, it will be a wake up call that we're halfway through the OS. For ALL, there is still plenty of time for hard work and measureable
For those that are newer to EN and Testing, hopefully the last few weeks have shown you hard, "hard" is. The test is the time to dial it in and do your hardest. The original EN testing protocal was to do 2x20 intervals "like you have a gun to your head." The protocol further stated that you should get off your bike with legs shaking and possibly puking
I am looking forward o seeing some great results, questions and the always lively discussion
As your moderator, I am plugging into week 17 of the HIM plan as I finalize prep for IM PR 70.3
Carry on! 
1
Comments
Well my FTP dropped a notch but I am chalking it up to being mostly out for last week and then getting some great training in over the weekend! Carry on!!!
The results are in and I'm not impressed with myself. No excuses I just did not have it today but gave it all that I had.
5' 253 20' 232 new FTP 220.
Analysis - I don't want to get in to excuses but looking at an honest assessment of the ride. Here's what I did right. I went to bed an hour earlier getting 7.5 hours, a decent sleep. Got in Saturday's ride earlier in the day and the run done Sunday early as well.
The difference - I woke up a 1/2 hour earlier took a gel and did a bit of warm up. Normally I wake up quick warm up and go with Gatorade and water on the bike . Had a few beer on the weekend Saturday evening and Sunday watching a game.
This morning was a power outage I just could not push the power even in the 5' interval. I've been doing 1' sets @258-264, mostly over 260 so 5' at 275-280 should not be an issue. I caved at 3:18 and tried to get the power back up but the file shows the up and down form 3:18 - 5'. This was legs and mentally I new I just was not feeling as good as last Saturday and caved.
The 20' test - Decided to give the 20' test a shot more for mental toughness as I knew the legs did not have the best today. Targeted around 230-235 as I knew the 240 was surely not happening. I hit 233 for the first 5' and similar from 5-10'. I also try to push a higher cadence 88-95 in the first half of the test at 3' I was in the harder gear just trying to hold up the watts. I broke at 11' and dropped to an easier gear for 1', ~202 watts then similar from 14-15 minutes. I came back for the final 5' at 244 watts and had to count the last 180 revolutions. Legs could not push more and was just starting to feel queasy at the end so I was working.
HR overall was elevated early on even in warm up but I did not end up pushing near my max. Post workout I almost feel sick sitting here. In retrospect I should have just pushed Saturday's final 16' interval out to 20 and called that my test as I was feeling great that day. Problem is I like to be consistent with my testing protocol.
Bottom line I've got a better test in me and I'll most likely give this another shot later in the week Thursday or Friday.
I've done lots of these tests and broke in a few I just was not giving in on this one. Sorry for the long post, hopefully there is some useful stuff in here for others. For me it was good to look at the results and put it down.
https://www.strava.com/activities/882548517
Those tests are so hard, my head turns for 10 minutes after the test.
https://www.strava.com/activities/882245550/overview
OOOh, I like this idea, and think I will do the same....
The key I find is doing hard, VERY hard intervals. If you are using Trainer road, you can drop your wattage down5-8% and you are only going hard. try bumping it up ever 2 minutes and see what very hard looks like compared to hard, getting that extra 2-5% makes a HUGE difference and is much more mentally challenging... When in doubt, try doing an interval where you start at Wattage X - and bump up 1% every 2 mins, if you aren't seeing your HR go up over time to what you've learned to be your maximum at the end of long (10 minute+) intervals, then you didn't start or finish high enough.
this is a good way to SWAG where your FTP should be
if you look closely at these intervals, you can see exactly what I am referring to. 1st interval wasn't going to happen, so I dropped the wattage. 2nd interval I built into, riding the same wattage for the first 4 mins or so and bumping up. 3rd interval i increased the ramp up rate on the 2nd half. The real key is that in reflection, the first half at the lower wattage may have been too little, when you get this precise and feel the differences, you start to understand what "VERY HARD" means
@Keith Shackleford - testing is hard to get right....takes lots of practice in pacing, mind set, etc.....try it again in a few days but be careful about raising your FTP outside of a valid test....downstream effects can be tough to deal with.
Scott adjusted his interval appropriately as reflected by his HR profile in the intervals above. He found the spot where he needs to be and kept his HR in the Z4 zone for the duration of the interval above. HR is a good tool as a secondary reference as fitness can change one way or another.
I tested last week as you guys know. Slightly higher FTP is causing the pain I expected. I did a 3X12' @ 1.0 this morning... https://www.strava.com/activities/882603494
Happy testing this week all!
SS
@Patti // @Keith // @Gordon: I think it's hard to test well in week 8. We have 7 weeks of accumulated fatigue, and getting only Monday as a rest day isn't enough to get the body recovered well enough for a decent test. Last year I had only 2 successful FTP tests out of 5 tries (2 out of 3 indoors, and 0 for 2 outdoors)
I agree a SWAG is fine and wouldn't even worry about a retest, unless you need to calibrate your heart rate zones. Or unless of course you need to show the gorilla who really is in charge of things.
No testing for me this week as I'm still trying to work back to my last FTP test level. I'm learning how valuable the run intervals are to cardio fitness on the bike. My legs keep going, but my cardio can't keep up. There is also a bit of HTFU that I need to work on as well.
Ran out if time this morning due to a prolonged warm up.
2x10'@ .96 & .95
@Shaughn Simmons - This was a 12 watt bump in FTP 208 week one 220 today. Watts/KG 1.81 to 1.97, sadly body comp is always an issue for me but I am down 7lbs.
@Paul Curtin - I hear you on the accumulated fatigue and probably part of the equation. The very frustrating part was the excellent day I had this past Saturday versus how I felt today. The second part is that I really wanted to push this test, 12 watts is still good but I was pushing close that that number over the longer intervals the last couple weeks.
@Phil Mills - Yes I really did not want to post this today but part of the learning process for me and hopefully others.
@Keith Shackleford - Keep trying to punch out the tests as SS mentions they are useful markers. I've typically blown up spectacularly when I've pushed it too hard at the start. There are a number of other factors as well but going from 235 to 219 could indicate some major fatigue or other issues going in to the test.
This test was by no means a failure I did improve quite a bit but just not where I should be. As mentioned above by Scott & Paul I could SWAG my FTP but I still think I want to show the gorilla the pain I can put on him in my cave. Now where's the gun I need to do this all over again...
I took a little pause (aka mentally quit for a bit) on test 1 this OS. Goal today, was "don't do that." And goal was met. I have missed a few workouts on the bike due to travel and even last week due to sicky ickies (still off, but on the mend) so I was pleased with the results. I think I executed pretty well too, so a win in that category too.
Vo2 max went up 10W to 247
20' went up 8W to 217
FTP went up from 8W to 206
w/kg is juuussst a hair under 3. I am working with a nutritionist on moving the body comp in the proper direction while staying well fueled for OS and beyond. So far so good, but it's only been a week. Lots of work to do.
Oddly, my VO2 used to stink compared to my FTP in years past, but last test and this one the 120% seems to be spot on. Now to just get STRONGER.
Jan 2 (TR link) - 5' was 242 (1.28 of ftp) - 20' was 199 (ftp 189) - 224 lbs - 1.86 w/kg
Today (TR link) - 5' was 264 (1.20 of ftp) - 20' was 231 (ftp 219) - 208 lbs - 2.32 w/kg
I got through the 3x 13 today. Still elevated HR compared to where it should be, but I got it done. So, good job to all who tested today...I'll be with you next week!
Finally I am getting experienced enough to nail the tests, taken long enough!
My testing protocol was on the conservative side with the V02 effort as I've had a history of going too hard and then being overly fatigued for the 20' test.
This being said, my 5' test was basically unchanged but I did move the needle on the 20 minute effort. My FTP increased by 8 watts from 231 to 239. My OS goal is to reach 250 so I'm trending in the right direction!
I took a full day of rest Monday (I've been running about 4 miles most Monday's in addition to the strength training) and think this helped be mentally prepared for the work.
Another factor which I believe helped is that I added an additional 2 x 20' "Sweet Spot" ride in the past few weeks. These efforts are not overly taxing and I think there is great benefit from a physiological perspective. It's one additional hour a week of riding that doesn't mentally or physically waste you.
I've also tried to adopt a new attitude about these "tests." I think I've previously put a lot of pressure on myself to respond at a higher level than what might be possible. It's easy to get hung up on others results and to lose perspective of the goal. Improvement comes in many forms. It's not just the number and I think this light bulb finally went on for me.
Irregardless of what my test number would have been yesterday, I went in KNOWING that I'm stronger and faster than I was eight weeks ago. The training log proves this fact and not just one test.
By adopting this attitude and having confidence in knowing that a lot of hard work has been accomplished, I believe that I "allowed" myself to execute a good test. This is something I haven't managed well previously and think it's a good reminder for all.
Enough rambling...... here's a link to my test.
https://www.strava.com/activities/882878699/overview
I am in a Bike focus week. This morning's IM effort level intervals: https://www.strava.com/activities/883614467
Last week I put in a Swim test in between the Bike and run test on Wed then did the run test on Thursday. Swim test was a slight improvement over the late Oct swim test....been swimming 2-3 times a week short intervals focused on form.....I am an adult onset swimmer and need this kind of work.
Happy Run Testing all!!
SS
@Todd Bray - Solid approach and words of advice on testing. As for your extra credit work. I believe the Z3 work, if that's your sweet spot definitely helps a lot if you can handle the workload. I've done one or two OS's where I have just done the main set work and not much Z3 stuff. I still get good results but not as effective as when I add in z3 work. This year I've done 5' extra on the weekly rides, 65', and have been extending out the weekend ride slowly out to 90', which in the past have been 60-70' and no more. In addition to the anecdotal benefits to my FTP I'm believe this extra work will put me in a better position to transition to the IM plan as I have a limiter with muscular endurance on the long rides.
As I'm on a trainer I probably won't take weekend ride beyond the 120' but if you have access to outside as the weeks move on there is an options to ride 2-3 hours.
https://www.strava.com/activities/884318304
I think the "huge to me" gain is due to me coming into the OS with next to 0 fitness (not much after surgery in July). Now that I have a little bit of fitness behind me, it's nice to see the numbers rise!
Weight is down from 220 lbs to 213 lbs in the first 8 weeks of OS as well!
Week 1 FTP 159
LTHR 165
Week 2 FTP 179
LTHR 157
I gave myself V02 interval work this morning: https://www.strava.com/activities/885119812
Just glad its over......
Good luck testing Ironmen!
SS
It’s great to see all these awesome FTP tests! Even the not-so-good tests led to key learnings; and kudos to those that stuck with the routine rather than test when not ready
@Todd Bray – that’s a great result, congrats! You have an impressively-high heart rate (peak 183 on the 20-min test). The 5-min test was low for that FTP, but your heart rate seemed to be in a good range to get warmed up for the 20-min test. Frankly I wouldn’t worry about the 5-min number. You’re doing a lot of Z3 work and 30/30 sets; that doesn’t leave room to do the high Z4 work needed for improving VO2 power
@Jeff Kane – very impressive 18-watt bump (and wt/kg bump as well)
@Jason Veith – huge indeed! It doesn’t look like you rested much between laps 10 and 11 so I’d argue that your FTP is actually a tad higher; that looked more like a 30-minute test
@Kristin Kandiel – double kudos for raising power with a lower LTHR!
I tested this morning as planned. Glad I got it in when I did because my day went sideways after that. 5-minute power went from 296 to 315 watts; 20-minute went from 262 to 275; new FTP is 261. Really happy with the new numbers; starting to feel comfortable in high Z4 heart rate; bumped up the HR zones a bit after today’s test.
https://www.strava.com/activities/885120198/laps
A really good thing I'm seeing this winter is that my overall NP in my hour-ish workouts is up. In past years, the NP has always been somewhere around 205-210, including all the warmup, rests, etc....and now I'm hitting a lot of ~225 NP workouts. It's not that my FTP is dramatically up (it's not), but instead that I'm able to hit the intervals with less rest, or at least rest at higher rest-work levels. I think this bodes well for the days where we start going longer outside....or at least I hope so.
@William Jenks Congratulations on the progress! Overall NP up for the same or more duration as the past is progress!
How did everyone find the new bike zones for the Saturday work?
Saturday work done: https://www.strava.com/activities/887365676
SS