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Karl Bonner micro thread
Hi Coach Patrick, Im in week 7 of the OS plan. Ive got a question about my running TRP, heart rate/ pace.
My TRP pace should be 8:46, my TRP HR should be 146.
Recently Ive noticed my pace is faster than 8:46 if I run to my TRP HR.(Great, I'm thinking, I'm getting fitter)
Over the last couple of weeks Ive been going with HR which means I've been running faster than my TRP pace, around 8:30 is this too fast ? which should I be going with ?
It feels ok to me but I don't want to over do it/ bring on the dreaded injury through going to hard.
Thanks
Karl
My TRP pace should be 8:46, my TRP HR should be 146.
Recently Ive noticed my pace is faster than 8:46 if I run to my TRP HR.(Great, I'm thinking, I'm getting fitter)
Over the last couple of weeks Ive been going with HR which means I've been running faster than my TRP pace, around 8:30 is this too fast ? which should I be going with ?
It feels ok to me but I don't want to over do it/ bring on the dreaded injury through going to hard.
Thanks
Karl
0
Comments
My guess is that your Week 8 test will sort this all out. Good luck with test week!!!
~ Coach P
Many thanks
Karl
So, Ive watched the wiki videos about year 2 and have my races for next year.
SWASHBUCKLER MIDDLE DISTANCE TRI - 20th May
IRONMAN AUSTRIA - 1st July (A race)
IRONMAN VICHY 70.3 - Aug 25th (A race)
My plan was to get some running miles in AKA " why you dont run as much as you think you do" & then hit the out season but need help as to where to place all this/ a plan for next year ?
Hope Ive posted this in the right place.
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
Here you go!! Recover now and then Run Durability Plan through the new year...one week off, then into the OutSeason Plan plan and the rest of your season!
Be sure to bookmark this thread!
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
I will be going over the weekend of wk 11 into wk 12 of my IM full plan (Thurs to Thurs).
Week 12 is a test week.
My plan was not to follow test week as it seems to be a waste of a good opportunity, Ill have excellent swimming & cycling on my doorstep.
I ve never been on a "camp" before & was wondering if you could give me any guidance on how I could best structure my time out there to get the most out of it & how to factor in the natural "rest/ reduction" that test week tends to give, either before, after or forgo it all together.
Thanks, Karl
Basically you should keep a steady run on all the days, maybe a longer one on the last day. Bikes should alternate longer days with medium days (think 2 to 2.5 Hours vs 4 hours).
The spacing will let you get in maximum training. With 7 days we want to do as much as we can handle; you still have plenty of time to recover / absorb it.
Jealous!!!
~ Coach P
Hi @Coach Patrick I hope you are well, I’m looking for a bit of guidance as I’ve lost my way a bit.
I had a bike crash about 7 weeks ago (2 weeks before IM Austria ☹) and separated my shoulder.
Recovery is going ok, I am Zwifting a lot (for me) & have started to introduce running & swimming. Swimming is kind of taking care of it ‘self, I do masters & the coach there is looking after me & not letting me do to much.
So, I’ve got Vichy 70.3 in 4 weeks (unlikely & certainly not gonna force it) & I have challenge Peguera Majorca (half) on Oct 20th which I think is realistically achievable.
I’ve been following all the bike W/O on the 70.3 plan leading to Vichy (seemed like a good place to start just in case), plus doing some other Zwift stuff.
I think you can plan on breaking off of every bike for 15 to 20 minutes. On the non-bike days you can run 20 to 30 minutes.
I suggest you leave some time in your week for getting in the water, standing, and moving your arm around underwater to have a little bit of resistance and facilitate recovery. I think not swimming but more moving your arm is if you are lifting shoulder weights. Does that make sense?
@KARL BONNER
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
I think we roll the Run Durability Program early to get you going....Layered with a bit longer running (See below). And then we Can move to the OutSeason Plan so we get all those benefits...which ends before London...so that means more modifying (TBD, we can talk here). Then it's into Challenge and beyond. Once you are through the Marathon, we should really focus on the bike for a good 7 to 14 days to help boost your aerobic system and allow your running legs to heal up!
OS Weekend Long Run Plan, will need to modify Final Surge once we agree!!
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Your Notes
2016 - LOCAL 70.3, IRONMAN VICHY,
2017 - LOCAL 70.3, IRONMAN FRANKFURT, CHALLENGE MALLORCA (HALF)
2018 - LOCAL 70.3, IRONMAN VICHY 70.3(PR), CHALLENGE MALLORCA (HALF)
2018 - A RACE - IM AUSTRIA, SEPARATED SHOULDER 2 WEEKS OUT (DNS).2017/18 - run durability, Jan OS, EN Full (adv/level 3), EN Half (adv/level 3)
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Ok, thanks for this @Coach Patrick .
This all sounds good & I like that Final surge should make this easier to intergrate/edit the pans as well, my only concern/question is around the 18 & 20 mi runs.
Im not specifically targeting London, im just doing it for the experience & because after 6 years of trying I finally got into the ballot, I deferred this year, then totally forgot about it, enetered Roth & then remembered I had London to do this year as well (idiot 🙄), so, I guess my question is, in your opinion are these long runs nessisary ? in my previous 3 IM builds Ive only gone to 17mi max (2h30), this is beacuse of historical injury issues and the inabilty/time it takes to recover well from big run sessions like this.
Second question, my run volume is going to higher than a normal OS, so do you think I should then modify the long runs on the EN*Full plan as ill already have a good load of run volume in my legs ?
Karl
I am pretty sure that no one has ever asked me if they cannot do the long run in the marathon plan! 😂
Yes, you can keep that “wrong“ run to her about two hours which is sufficient enough to keep up the endurance you need without building a fatigue that really hurts. You are also welcome to supplement with an hour pre-or post right on the bike at that same heart rate which I think is a great compromise.
In terms of the actual IRONMAN bills, you are correct. Are usually tell people that after the marathon recovery the regular training should be more bike focused. It’s hard to predict the level of run fitness he will have after this is all said and done, so that’s more of a call we can make when we get there. OK?
Haha, maybe a strange request but I'm finally learning what my body can & can't take 😀.
Thats a great idea to add pre or post on the bike ( can't believe Ive never thought of that before 😩).
RD & OS locked & loaded into FS , thanks again.
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on within Final Surge by clicking on the Training Plans > View My Plans. If you need help manipulating your plans in Final Surge, be sure to check out our Help Site. Remember, you can learn more about each plan and find related plan resources on the Plan Descriptions and Resources page.
Your Notes
2019: Marshman Half distance, Challenge Roth, various gravel races.EN full plans, running ave for year so far 28mi pw
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick , thanks for video and thanks to daisy Cat as well 🤣
Yes I agree with everything you said and Im happy with the plan, the only thing Id like to ask is that I have a lot of personal/life stuff to do now and through November, Im wondering what your thoughts are about me starting the OS in december ? Id still get a good 10(ish) weeks of OS in then move onto the Century plan, if you that's ok should I start the plan from week 1 or jump to week ??
Regards
Karl
@Coach Patrick , bumping the above 😉
@KARL BONNER we can work with whatever schedule you need to roll with. This point time you are rocking and rolling from what I can see on Strava, so let me know. sorry for the delay.
@KARL BONNER Thanks for checking in...love the info! 🤔 Love the question. Here's my take on it.
I think the value of heart realize in the long workouts and then again on race day. Short term situations like tapering, or the day after a significant effort, really challenge the usefulness of heart rate as a specific tool. In other words, elevated heart rate shows that your body is doing additional work while tapering.
In my mind, this is likely processing fatigue and related issues to the work you've been doing, it just means that your body is running a little "hot" as it recovers before the event. Think of it as a background process running on the laptop that is your fitness.
For situations like these, I recommend using pace or power on the run is your target. This eliminates any of the noise around running. You know that an eight minute mile is an eight minute mile, check. Whether your HR is a little up or down doesn't matter....it does matter, however when that HR is elevated during the bigger event...(race, epic, etc). That "familiar" HR should be close to what you train at, and if it's not, then fixing THAT becomes a top priority.
In short, the right awareness, just not at the right time (taper) for you!
~ Coach P
Ps here is your update for record keeping, thanks!
Rankings are as follows:
- Swim Fitness vs Last Month: 2
- Bike Fitness vs Last Month: 2
- Run Fitness vs Last Month: 2
- Body Comp vs Last Month: 2Next month's focus: DIY tri/Half plan: Need to get on FTP wko'sExtra help request: Run HR question. Every time I taper (Just did a small taper for UktraMay), my Run HR goes high, eg. under normal training load, 8:30 m/m would be say 135bpm (Z1)... tapered that can go upto 145bpm easily for the same pace. Guess my question is, Is this mormal ?, it makes racing to HR very tricky as I can have to add on 1- 1.5 extra mins per mi which really mucks up your run form ? No biggy, Just curious. For UltraMay I ignored HR (to a point) and ran to pace and was really suprised by my consistancy.
Thanks @Coach Patrick, makes sense 👍️
You go it...do you have any epic plans for the Summer?
~ Coach P
Ps Buffs in...shipping soon!
@Coach Patrick , No plans other than the DIY Tri, We made a decission in April to write this year off, they did re-arrange our IM in Estonia to a month later, but niether Abbey or myself were/are comfortable with traveling and to us, the whole idea seems a little crazy, there are more important things to worry about right now. I have been saying for the last 2 years, "that's it im not doing an ironman next year", and have always ended up doing one, or least training for one 🙄, so the decission was taken for me this year and Im ok with that, so is the dog and the garden is looking the best its ever looked🤣. Having said all that, should somthing pop up local-ish later in the year like a gravel ride.... who knows 😉.
Sounds perfect. You and I are of the same mindset. When they told me things are up in the air I just pulled the plug. I don’t need the year of going back-and-forth, hoping but not hoping. Sounds like a bad relationship From a movie or something. I like life to be as straightforward and boring as possible!
fingers 🤞 for a gravel event for you!
~ Coach P