Brian Hayes Micro

Brian Hayes

I have been running into problems trying to stay within my run pacing zones while out running because I encounter hills. I want to know what your guidance is for completing running workouts within a certain run zone time but encountering unexpected pops in elevations. I wasn't sure if I should primary just be focused on flat terrain to meet my goals or change pacing to do the hills. I am sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find a thread on it.

Coach Patrick

@brian hayes - so Hills for a double edge sword. Training for to be strong but they can be a bear because they mess with your zones. You walk away knowing that you were stronger and fitter, but perhaps it is exactly as you wanted to. 

  The only time I really want you to focus on nailing the zones order in the mile repeats.  The last thing I want you to do is try to speed up and slow down just to have a good number for a mile. 

Outside of that work out, I will take your "best guess" as to how to run TRP or similar study pieces across that to rain. This will mean restraining yourself a bit on the hills and running a little faster on the down hills, but overall using a level heart rate as a guide probably be easiest. 

Athletes who consistently train on hills also consistently outperform the competition on race day. This is a secret weapon and something that will help you above and beyond the competition. We just have to figure out how to keep things close enough for you with our training so you can use them to maximum effect.

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick
 When doing my run workouts should I use run zone paces or run heart rate zones. For example when you say run at zone 1 for an hour. Do you mean HR zone 1 or run pace zone 1? And should those match up meaning when running pace zone 1 should your HR should be zone 1 as well? for me usually my HR zones never match my run pace zones... my heart can usually run much higher.

Coach Patrick

@Brianhayes -  in training you need to pick either or. Generally speaking we recommend that you use pace unless you are within the last six weeks to race day, or the temperature is over 80°. In those cases you would want to use heart rate. But the pace never matches the heart rate zone… And that's OK.

Working at pace targets the muscles, improves your fitness and will "raise" your heart rate.

Training with heart rate allows you to "flatten" your muscular effort in helping you remain strong and steady for a longer period of time. Both are useful tools, just in different situations.

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick

I just wanted to make sure I understand my plan for the week coming up. In particular, I am going into Week 12 of the 2017 EN Full Intermediate Plan. My question is about the Thursday plan. What is the purpose of doing both a split long run and a run 5k time trial. I have to imagine my legs will be shot and I won't have a reliable 5k time.

Coach Patrick

@Brian Hayes -  you are lucky, I wanted to include hill repeats as well but decided against it at the last minute. 

I am kidding! It is an either or proposition. I personally prefer that you do the spartan run, but sometimes people are looking to confirm an improvement in their Vdot… Which is why that workout is also there. Your choice, just let me know what you decide. 

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick


Hill repeats haha, as long as it involved me rolling down the hills.

OK sounds good. I will focus on the long split run because the last couple weeks I haven't been completing both legs of the split runs because of the heat in the evenings. I had been doing some of my Wednesday bike threshold rides after work and the thought of waking up early Thursday to do a long run with tired legs sounded miserable. So I had just been doing the first half of the split runs in the evenings indoors on Thursdays. Starting tomorrow I will push my Wednesday bikes or runs to the morning so I have more time to recover for the complete Thursday long runs. 

A question I had was 8 weeks ago I had used my trainer's reported power for my FTP test (229W), I missed the test 4 weeks ago due to traveling so I just used the same FTP from 8 weeks ago and I have been using that to base my power zones on for my long rides, and week day rides. I have been skipping the Sunday ABP rides to get a chill day. However I have since switched to P1 power pedals and have been using them for my training rides for the last 3 weeks or so. I did the FTP test yesterday and my FTP is now reported to be 216W. Should I readjust all my zones down? Or chalk that test up to just having a off day and stick with the old numbers? I haven't had difficulty sticking to the zones the plan required with a 229W FTP. So I wanted to see what you recommended. If a phone chat would be better let me know, if this is confusing.

Coach Patrick

 That's a good call on moving Wednesday to the morning. As difficult as that is, having a bigger gap between those key workouts is critical. Every once in a while you can fudge it, but not consistently. 

 I hear you on the power, I say stick with the zones you already have. The delta between 229 and 216 is so small as to be around together. In fact, I'm quite frankly surprised the numbers are that close! Dealing with that can sometimes drive a good triathlete crazy. 

getting a chill day on Sunday is not a problem. Have you considered using our minimalist plan? This allows you to get in Tuesday Thursday rides and  Saturday long ride, with a long run on Sunday. I only say this because it sounds like right now you're only getting two sessions a week.

I want to make sure you're getting a rest day, but I also want to make sure you're getting the work done. If you want to check out that minimalist Plan, go to resources/training plan Central and click on the minimalist plan to learn more. 

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick

I can give you my Strava or Garmin info. My question is how to figure out what my target HR should be for the ironman course. I know what my avg bike HR is, but not sure what the avg run HR should be for race pace. I had been aiming 140-150bpm first off the bike and for 160bpm after the first 6 miles of the run after bike. Does that seem reasonable? Thanks.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/6584215

Coach Patrick

@brian hayes -  yes if you can get me the link to your Strava profile that be fantastic. We have guidance here in the wiki on how to set your training log and account public so that I can dive into it. I would much rather use your personal data to give you the best information possible.

If you can't do the Strava thing on your own, please go to resources/wiki and in the left navigation click on all pages. From there you can search that page for the word Strava and you'll find the instructions on how to do it. Please bump me when you're done and I'll get right on it!

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick

Thanks for the tips here is the link to my Strava profile again. It should be public now for you to dive in.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/6584215

Coach Patrick

@brian hayes - Consider yourself followed!!!

Brian Hayes

@Coach Patrick
ok when you get a chance have a look at my Strava profile to answer my question from Sept. 1 above about figuring out what my target HR should be for the Ironman course

Coach Patrick

@brian hayes Thanks for the bump on that!!! So I looked at a few of your long runs, and a few of your brick runs on Saturday. 

Your workouts are a bit hard to parse. Here's what I see...long rides with HR ending in the 130s...sometime 140s. 

And I see brick runs where your HR starts off around mid-140s and builds.

However there is normally a big discrepancy btw bike and run HRs...

My advice..ride your proper bike, note HR at the end. Likely between 125 and 135 unless you messed up nutrition and bonked. 

• First 3 miles at 135 (regardless of bike HR, as it might be lower) 
• Next 3 miles between 135 and 145.
• Move forwards at 150...and stay steady so the HR goes up slowly over time (you are good at this in training). 

This "hard" set of numbers will insure you can EAT and DRINK in the first 6 miles...which is your top priority. 

If you are supposed to be at 135 and you see 145 on a hill...WALK. Run the downs and flats, etc. You are playing defense....then you can start to run it out as you maintain decent food / fluids through 15ish, when usually your gut checks out and it's coke and whatever you can get it!