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IM Lake Placid Training June 21- June 26

Hey friends! 

Short and sweet this week because I want to hear all about "camp week" 

Those that went to LP- share your knowledge 

Those that didn't- tell us what you did at home?! 


P.S. Be on the lookout for an email from Brenda on Team Dinner information and sign up! 

P.S.S. YOU ALL ARE THE BEST! 
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Comments

  • So what are some of your opinions on wet suits ... I have a full maverick Pro suit that I've used in the past ... for the full 2.4 miles I have to admit it feels a little restrictive in the shoulders. I bought a sleeveless one as an alternative for LP and seriously considering going with it as primary. 

    I know it's personal preference but I'd like to hear opinions of best option for LP. Does the added buoyancy having arms covered and reduced drag outweigh the lack of restraint and temperature regulation if the swim is on the warm side? 

    Other pros/cons?
  • edited June 23, 2017 11:59AM
    I have both as well...will be doing some open water swiming this week and next finally...and will be in LP in a couple of weeks...will try both and decide...personally my opinion...if your going to wear a wetsuit...unless its hot...warm water....go with sleeves.

  • edited June 23, 2017 12:06PM
    Full suit will always be faster.  If you look at the pros, if they can wear wetsuits it's usually full.
    However other factors such as over heaters might benefit from the cooler sleeveless and often top swimmers (of which I am not) will talk about the benefit of "feel" for the water with a sleevless - of course all that I feel is water...  :)
    I'm sure @Mike Roberts i.e. a top swimmer and others can weigh in on this one with more info.

    I will say that my arms always hurt for the first 1,000 yards or so when I wear a full sleeve, but not so when swimming with sleeveless or no suit.
  • I am going to need to hack my Saturday workout.  (This week and next will hardly resemble our training plan.)  What does everyone think about a reverse-order RR - run, bike and then swim?

    My local pool is closed for yet another swim tournament, and a dawn OWS won't work because there will be thunderstorms in the morning.  I have parenting obligations in the afternoon, so I need to be done by noon.  Ugh...  Training seems to be a constant juggle.

    Yesterday, I did a slow 50-mile ride with clients and co-workers.  We rode from our offices in Tribeca up to the Tappan Zee Bridge.  Most of the miles were ridden in pretty heavily congested areas in NY city, so, it was a pretty jarring contrast from the roads of LP last weekend.  Nevertheless, I got out and enjoyed a beautiful afternoon with friends on the bike.  

    Importantly, I also got to practice changing tires for some of the riders in our group - three of them, in fact.  (Lots of debris on the roads in and around NYC.)  I even was able to put a tire back on to a race wheel without tools.  That was a first for me.  I am finally getting quick at changing tires, as I offer to help every time someone on our ride gets a flat.  (Incredibly, most of our clients weren't carrying spares or a toolkit...)

    This morning, I swam for the second time this week.  Mostly drills.  Slowly, I am beginning to feel like I know how to swim.  The young ones were in a lane one over from mine - they move like fish.  I am not quite the barge I was six months ago, but it is amazing to see how strong these young travel teams are.  

    My goal for the rest of the week is to do another run today, then a six-hour workout tomorrow and a long run very early on Sunday before my morning flight.  

    Good luck to everyone on their big Saturday workout.  
  • I was actually thinking of the exact same Sun/Sat swap...interested in the feedback.....

    Also - curious about Wetsuits...I have had for years an Orca Sonar that I like...zipper is shot and can't seem to get it repaired...I have in my room  an Orca S6 and an Xterra Volt full sleeve wetsuits...the key difference is that the Orca has some 5mm neoprene on front thighs and hips...while the Volt has 3MM ...Volt fits nice and has equal flexiblity/comfort....I'm told and believe that extra buoyancy for rocks like me make for faster swimming...so that would lend itslef to choosing the S6...but what do you think the "real" impact will be...I'm a 1:50-1:55/100 swimmer at best sans wetsuit...I have done 4 Ironmans all in speedsuits and my times have been 1:18-1:24.....If you had to choose which way would you go...thoughts?
  • @Patrick Marsh - get in a swim on Friday, and then do an early AM one on Sunday?? I think at this point with training camp, Quassy, etc, under your belt, you know how to get from one to the other and how your body behaves during that transition...

    additionally, watch the weather, they still really don't know what happens with this system affecting us, there is a reasonable chance it pushes further south than what they are saying and if so, look for little to nothing north of Strong Island! (at least that's what I am praying for!)
  • @Marc Taylor  I only have a full suit and have not really found the shoulder issues that other mention.  Other than that as mentioned overheating can be an issue for some particularly if we get to the top end of the temperature allowed age group usage.

    My training was a juggle all week with pool times being terrible on the weekend.  So I did the long run Wednesday and a Friday Swim/bike run.  This swim was sub par and it seem the increase in distance has regressed my form somewhat, bike was difficult and the run was manageable.
    Today 2h 10' ride was all I could muster at .67.  Took some extra rest over time in the saddle. 

    I'm just hanging on recovery wise with the 3 hour run race rehearsal next week and two big bikes I'll need to sleep, eat and recover like it my main job next week.
  • +1 on the full suit.  I tend to get cold and will opt for full suit 9 out of 10 times.  I have Desoto's 2 piece suits in both full and sleeveless which helps with shoulder strain (plus you can mix if needed).  Only negative is managing 2 pieces heading into T1.

    @Joseph Lombardi on your suit decision I'd say go with whichever is more comfortable and you "feel faster" wearing, but it sounds like those are the same.  I'm not qualified to answer on the speed impact of 2mm more, I'll leave that for the WSM super swimmers.  @tim cronk has a different full suit for probably every 2.5 degrees of water temp...

    I would hazard a guess that more material is not a huge bonus and there are many swim execution things we all can do (or at least I can) that save more time.
  • @Joseph Lombardi I'd go with the extra buoyancy and the 5mm suit, particularly if they feel the same.  The leg and hip 5mm should help lift that area so I've read.  
  • FYI - I picked the Orca...after trying on both over a few days...the Orca felt more comfortable (neck) and more mobility (shoulders) + the added bouyancy...

    This weekend was a bear...Saturday Rain deluge then humidity....I got in the 3 1/2 in the soup but after falling and spilling all my water I pulled the plug on the run at a bit over 20 mins.  Sunday was hot and I just didn't feel recovered ..maybe rode the first hour too hard also...anyway...I pulled the plug at 3hr and ran 30mins....plenty...and some rest will help...definitely peak week tired...
  • Real swimmers may prefer sleeveless and say they can swim faster with less restriction??? My experience with numerous tests on the exact same OWS course is I am always faster with a full suit over a sleeveless suit.... But that is just me...

    My double whammy continues... I can still feel my hip although it appears to be improving, however I am on day 10 with no running... If I can have a few days of not feeling any issues I will start running again...That must happen pretty soon or I maybe reduced to an AquaBike DNF at IMLP... TBD yet.... The ribs still hurt but again improving, swam 14k this week but cant really pull too hard (although swimming with Laura Becker today I did push the pace for 1/2 mile and only a little sore)... Bike is still OK and I picked it up there to make up for NO running, got in 205 miles this week with 2 - 2 x 20' FTP sessions, 1- 5hr ride, the rest were recovery rides.... 

    Tomorrow I am off to Lake Placid for what looks like a very wet week of training Oh Yeah!

    Yesterday was a full day off while I played sherpa for Heather at Sea to Summit.... The swim was cancelled due to potential thunderstorms, the bike was 92 miles from South Berwick Maine to Wildcat Ski Area NH, and the run to the top of Mount Washington was cancelled due to high winds and visibility, the alternate run was half way up and then back to Wildcat.  Laura, Simon, and Heather all kicked ass... Another well run event even though the weather did not co-operate.
  • Wrapped up the week with a long run this morning - ~14 miles.  I felt tired and was unable to continue with descending miles after mile-9.  Muscles felt heavy.  Hips were tight.  Had pain in my left heel.  A bit disappointed but not surprised given that I am not accustomed to this kind of training volume.  

    This week, I got in just under 16 hours, which is on the high-side for me, especially after the 22-hour week at EN IMLP camp.  
    - 146 miles on the bike, including four hours yesterday indoors on the Kickr.  This turned out to be surprisingly challenging.  My house was cool, but humid and I ended up downing four bottles of fluid.
    - Ran about 27 miles, but fell a bit short of my goal for the week.  Ran four times.  The first three runs, I came close to my targets but felt slow.  Today was way off from targeted pace.  
    - Swam 6 km, including a long swim in choppy conditions on LI Sound yesterday.  Starting to see progress on my swim and was comfortable enough in the brackish water to swim through the times when I got a mouthful of saltwater. 

    Looking forward to getting some rest this week.  I will be traveling 4.5 days for work, so I am going to nap whenever the chance affords itself.

    It's great to see all the training reports; it helps keep me motivated.  Good luck with training this week.
  • Is it too late to transfer to IMMT?  We are so close to race day and I feel so unprepared. I just need a few more weeks...doesn't that seem like it's always the case?  

    Today i I wrapped up my week with a big tri day.  Started with a 4K meter swim that felt pretty good.  90 miles on the bike after felt blah.  I don't know what it is I just cant get any excitement to ride my bike these days.  This makes me super sad because I love biking.  After the mediocre bike I ran 6 miles and felt awesome.  I ran faster than I should have but sometimes (ok all the time) when the legs are happy and running well you go for it :)

    Another solid week of SBR.  Swam ~13k yards, biked ~160 miles and ran just over 40.  Fatigue has definitely set in as most of my runs this week have been sub par.  Just couldn't get the legs to turnover plus the humidity in VA is high making it challenging to get quality runs at pace.  

    This upcoming week is another big one.  Looking at last years data leading up to Placid I put together a 4th of July weekend camp which I plan on repeating.  I was in top form for LP 2016, so I figure I follow what I did last year and see how it goes.  Some tweaks here and there, but in general the next 30 days will mirror last year.  Let the work continue....

    Good work everyone!  Oh and to chime in about the wetsuit debate.  Long sleeve all the way.  My friend (current pro and x-div 1 swimmer) always wears LS and says it's a huge advantage.  My sleeveless has been collecting cobwebs in the corner for years now.  I have a Roka Mav Pro and love it.  
  • @Danielle Santucci I hear you on feeling unprepared.  I was just thinking 3-4 more weeks would be perfect but Lake Placid is my only shot for this year so I'd better keep plugging away. You did a ton of work on the bike at Al's camp I'm sure the bike legs will come around.

    3500M in the pool today.  This was the first good swim in two weeks for me.  Things kept clicking over but still had to concentrate on form in the final 2X200 particularly.  I'll be getting out for Canada day this weekend to the lake to try out the wet suit and my first open water swim.
  • Is it too late to transfer to IMMT?  We are so close to race day and I feel so unprepared. I just need a few more weeks...doesn't that seem like it's always the case?  

    TOTALLY agree with this!!! shockingly, I feel like I have neither the bike or swim volume I need for this and am eyeing my next race to be considered with all of this fitness  :o

    did a hundred miler with 8000' of climbing on saturday, focusing on trying to figure out my 5 hr power, followed that up with a 5.5 mile pre bike run yesterday and a time constrained 3.33 hr bike ride, also focusing on those 5 hr power intervals.. 
    rolling forward into Monday and an eye to getting in two more quality weekends of work before we hit the taper.... 

  • edited June 26, 2017 5:51PM
    @Scotty54 Scott Dinhofer & @Danielle Santucci  Y'all make me laugh..."I'm so not ready...." then proceed to outline how you crushed your recent workout/weekend.... 

    Felt some real heat induced and volume fatigue this weekend...
    Also happy to have had an equipment issue raise its ugly head on the ride this weekend...had a fabric LG bento box mounted behind headset and it would stay in place kept sliding off to the left/right and impeding my knees/cycle stroke...very frustrating and actually ended up with abrasions on both lets....took that baby off!...will need to try a new one this weekend.

    first open water swimming of the season today or tomorrow....today will be swim only to consolidate recent work...and rest...then looking forward to decent effort for Long Run this week16-18miles....and then a solid weekend before headed to Lake Placid for RR week/weekend.....then its all over but the patience and discipline to taper effectively...
  • Y'all make me laugh..."I'm so not ready...." then proceed to outline how you crushed your recent workout/weekend.... 

    I think my weekend workout crushed me!
  • @Scott Dinhofer and @Danielle Santucci I guess that's why you are on the pointy end of the stick.
    @Joseph Lombardi It does seem crazy at times that they are that critical of their workouts.  I'm always in awe of the great work some can put in but I also realize from my former competitive life that what may look like a great workout to some, is just ho-hum to those doing it.  Getting that final 1% can be hard.



  • Lackluster weekend and mojo.  I won't even talk about what I've missed.  :( 

    Yesterday was cool and quite windy...no mojo to make up any of my missed bike time from the weekend, then my daughter called with news of being rear ended/rear ending the car in front of her.  4 cars involved, only hers could not be driven away.  She is all good (althaea really matters) but that did not help my mojo.  Finally just had to do something (I beat myself up too much for off days) and rode Zwift for an hour.  Nope, no good. Got off the bike.  At least I broke a sweat.  Still waiting for the mythical fitness boost from Aspen that I think may still be playing in Aspen, instead of showing up in my bike legs. :-/
  • @Trish Marshall  Glad you daughter is alright.  We are in the final two weeks and the energy levels and mojo can wane even without the stresses in life.  Check you sleep and nutrition over the last few days.  The fitness from Aspen is there somewhere I'm sure maybe this put you in a deeper hole that you thought?
  • Thanks for keeping the mojo going, team.  I've needed it.  I had a very difficult decision last week: go home early, train like hell over the weekend vs. stay where I was, hang out with some rich and somehwat-famous buddies and live like them for a few moments, potentially experiencing a top-10 weekend, but the downside being some damage to my IM training.  Old Mike would have come home and trained.  New Mike stayed, had a blast, and paid a price.  Oh well, my focus was to absolutely ensure that I got in all my running.  I got in a 17-miler in tough conditions that never felt difficult/painful.  Over 40 miles for the week, so not a total loss on the run. I also ensured that I slept (at least 2 hours per night), (over)ate and stayed hydrated ($700 wine has to be healthy, right?).  

    Back at home, the family is away for two weeks at the lake house.  Work is slow, so I can do a lot from home.  Just me, the dog, a trainer, some goggles and my running shoes.  Game on.
  • edited June 27, 2017 7:06PM
    I too appreciate the #mojo and knowledge found in this group!  You all are bad@ss!  ...speaking of some things I've only briefly contemplated (the wetsuit for example).  I hate wearing my sleeved suit and have been using the sleeveless as of late.  I was hoping for a warm enough swim to go sleeveless; now I might re-think.

    Another question I have is this:  How may of you change after the swim? ...anybody swim in the tri kit underneath the wetsuit and just keep it moving?  That one has me bothered as to which route I should go.

    Other than that...... still trying to trust the training.  I'm actually looking forward to the long run this week.  Hope everybody heals nicely with all the ailments rearing their ugly heads during this peak training.  My hip flexor is acting up and I'm trying to stay on top of it.  Other than that I'm in DIRE NEED of a massage!

    ...by the way @Mike Roberts , sounds like FUN!!!  ...what's a little wine?!

    Happy Training!
  • I wanna be like Mike  @Mike Roberts that is! :smiley:
  • @Gordon Cherwoniak  the weird thing is I don't feel as "thrashed" as I have been in the past.  My recovery /nutrition / sleep have all been decent.  Had myself a chat with Coach P and will be moving forward with all the mojo I can muster, plus smiling as much as I can.  It's a great game we get to play, and it might as well be fun!  

    In other news today, my PT 1 pedals need servicing (the right spindle where it attaches to the crank is loose...probably why unclipping was not working for me) and my wonderful mechanic is getting me a replacement pair and dealing with Saris and the warranty on my behalf.  Phew.  Bike tune up is scheduled for the week before before we leave.  Getting my head around some good workouts this coming week starting with the long run tomorrow.  Had to move it up a day as I have my dear friends fathers funeral to attend Thursday.  There will be no running after that so getting it done early.  
  • edited June 28, 2017 1:45PM
    @Mike RobertsYou don't get those opportunities in life that often.  Given the criteria of at least 2 hours sleep the running including a 17 miler seem like a good trade off. Plus while LP is important Kona is the focus if I recall. 

    Got in my 3 hour run this morning.  Had to focus in a little earlier but was able to push the final 30' in to z2.  14.5 miles I know I'll be in a world of hurt come 18-20 so we will see what I can muster come race day with my paper mache durability I've built up.  I'll probably log 24 miles total this weeks so not even the full distance. 

  • guess we aren't getting a new thread this week. 
    @Gordon Cherwoniak - that's an awesome run! I am starting to get excited (not  :o ) for mine tomorrow!
    @Mike Roberts - Lake house?? when's the EN camp happening at Casa Roberts?!!

    did my weekly FTP test this AM, was shaping up nicely, I reduced the time on my 1200 person+ KOM segment on interval one, 9:50 into the 2nd 20' interval I flatted...  :'( fixed it (pay attention @Danielle Santucci) got back on the whip & put out a 3rd interval of 12:30 for a total of roughly 42' @ FTP

    I do feel while it would have been hard, I would have matched last week's FTP test... thus I feel strongly that my outdoor Tri-bike FTP is 270. (last week's test was 272). Of note is that I also did 95% of the time in the aerobars, which is not something i was doing in FTP tests last year. 

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1057970032


  • Back to the transition discussion...I finally got around to reading the athlete guide and noticed a discrepancy re: shoes/helmet on the bike vs. in the T1 bag (pages 8 & 21 contradict each other).  I emailed IM and got the response below, looks like nothing on the bike allowed.

    Courtney Pierce (My Race Questions)

    Jun 28, 11:13 AM EDT

    Hi Scott,


    Thank you for reaching out. We apologize for this confusion. Everything needs to be in the bags when you check it in and during the race. We are currently updating the information on page 21 with the correct verbiage.


    If you have any other questions, please let me know.


    Best,


    COURTNEY PIERCE

    Coordinator, Athlete Services

  • edited June 29, 2017 5:50PM
    @Mike Roberts are you kidding..."most" of your fitness is set...great to relax the mind and absorb the fitness (and some wine),....your fine...

    @Gordon Cherwoniak good work on the long run

    Mixed bag week for me...all ok...but 2x my morning open water swimmed was nixed for weather or other...so only have one decent swim in this week (pool) thus far and hope I can get an open water RR swim this weekend.

    ...some sleep and rest allowed me to feel really good on the bike yesterday for the short/faster bike...and today I got in a slow but steady/well executed Long Run...my loop is a tad shy of 5 miles...so I did three+ for 16 progressive miles starting @ 10+ down to mid9's for the final 6miles...2:41....hard to imagine I ran marathon in this time atone point....anyway hope race day will hopefully be similar

    I have a travel day tomorrow...then hopefully solid long weekend of workouts...and then up to LP for my RR weekend. 
  • I'm in a hole and I can't get out.  TSB was never very low and is now +10, but I feel like it is -80.  Had a mild illness going into LP camp and got thru with a pretty decent run on Sunday.  As soon as the run was over, I was toast.  Runny nose, fever, tired, body aches.  Took Monday and Tuesday off as I could not even consider a workout.  Slowly got back Wednesday with easy bike and run and Thursday - 10 mile run.  Past weekend did ok but Sunday was Zone 1 that felt like Z2-3.  Ran in the evening Saturday and Sunday which felt smooth and easy.  Thought I was back.  Monday AM swim and then no energy.  Tuesday Swim and I was having trouble staying awake at work.  I wake up and want to go back to bed.  Yesterday, I got on the trainer and my legs just hurt at a zone 1 effort .  It was a burning ache throughout my legs but not a specific injury. Got off and stretched and was done for the day. My work schedule would not allow a long run today(thank you work).  What do I do now?  My brain is waging a large argument that won't let me relax and rest but is telling me not to workout. I have been doing this for a long time and I don't know if I've had this level of fatigue. But there are those times when I can still get in a good run or swim set that makes me question whether I can work through this if I could just HTFU.  I didn't know whether to put this in the micro to @Coach Patrick or in a separate forum but I thought you guys have the sense of IMLP around the corner and last 1 1/2 weeks of work. Opinions and advice appreciated. 
  • Rob Sabo , I would go to Coach P ASAP , after just finishing camp Coach P is more in tune with you and what you have been doing than anybody... Obviously recovery , feeling better, and getting out of that hole means some rest I would go for a couple days off then a reverse taper of a few days to get back into ...  But...Get P to help you thru that!
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