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W.D.L. June 2017: Transitioning from Power/Pace to Heart Rate

Despite having to log more phone calls then miles of exercise this week, I am still procrastinating like a champion! :D  Case in point, I'm excited to introduce they knew's monthly series called: Watch. Discuss. Learn. In this series I will be posting a video each month on a topic that is come up in my calls in contact with athletes. It's meant to be an opportunity for you to share your insights and discuss your experiences and together we will hopefully create a better understanding moving forward as a community.

Without further ado, here is the June 2017 Video: Transitioning From Power/Pace to Heart Rate

https://endurancenation.wistia.com/medias/nwvwykmv2e?embedType=iframe&videoWidth=640


Questions to Consider:
  • What is the true cost of ignoring the effect of heat on your body at peak effort levels?
  • How long until you are "adapted" to the heat and can get back to regular training -- if ever.
  • What's the best way to "get the work done" despite the heat?

Comments

  • I like the short, punchy nature of this Coach Video - only seven minutes, a lot easier to digest than a 20-40 minute dissertation. Still, I wonder why no responses yet - we're all too busy with weekend rides and races? Suffering in the heat? Getting ready for the Fourth?

    Heat is like hills on the run, wind on the bike - nothing you can do about it, you're just gonna go slower. So you need an alternative to standard metrics to keep you within the effort window for a given day's workout. HR gathers all those confounding factors, and helps temper the effort so we don't (literally) burn out. Seems old school in the late second decade of the 21st century, but sometimes the old ways are the best ways.

    Theres a whole physiologic explanation of why HR goes up and pace slows as it gets hotter, having to do with core temperature, the need to dissipate the heat created by the muscles, the difficulty of doing when heat (as modified by humidity ) goes up. There are also intriguing changes that occur as one does more training in the heat - "adaptation" or "acclimitization". But you can never fully compensate for the heat - above a certain temp, no matter how well adapted you are, you will slow down, or you will shut down. The body doesn;t like a core temperature above something like 102.4 (a little thing called heat exhaustion, which can lead to heat stroke, which leads to ... death), and it will do something to make you slow down - cause cramps, make you walk, faint, pass out. Mind your HR when its hot, especially when racing and you are trying to over-ride your body's signals.
  • Watched this a couple days ago and it's all great stuff.  As Al said short and to the point.  It's an excellent reminder for both racing and workouts.
  • I used to get up at 3am on wed/thu mornings to do my long runs pre-work, otherwise there'd be no other time to get it done safely. Here in North TX, the temperatures bottom out at 85 + humidity during the summers. I can deal with the heat, but the direct sunlight just about kills me.

    For a bigger guy, I adapt pretty well, once I've got a few months of hot running under my belt (ex, last year when I trained thru the summer for my trail 50k), but it's always a total sweat fest (can you say CHAFING!).
  • Nice video!  +1 on what All said.  One of my key take aways from doing a crap-ton of trail running in the last two years is that pace is just an output, just like speed on the bike.  It is a result of heat, terrain, wind, etc.  It's easy to forget that on road races where the run is usually advertised for its flatness and PR-friendliness.  It's much more evident on rolling trails.  I usually just have my HR display on my watch when I run outside now.
  • Thanks for bumping this one up, I havent see it pass.

    Few things:

    1) In my mind, using HR for me is not something I like to use; I always tell myself if I need to hit that pace/speed, so be it with the HR, it is what it is, just need to keep working and get more fit so my HR gets lower and lower throught the time. IOW; If I need to hit 155BPM to run at 4:10/km, I'll do it.

    2) As for the heat/humidity, when training inside I dont use a fan and open up the heat in the garage to simulate the heat & humidity that we have during summer; that explains the drawings that some of you have seen on groupme =) But the thing I had to work when I started doing this is to hydrate alot more, I am a really swetty person and dont want to trash myselft

    3) Following 2), when I get outside in the heat it takes less time to get acclimate and get to normal

    4) I always find heat "hard" when its a standalone run VS a brick run. I don't notice material difference for the bike since I train in an "articial heat" during the winter.

    I take heat over winds

    and love those videos, keep posting!
  • It's very hot here right now so  this was in the front of my mind on this weekend workouts. If I control HR in the heat I just go slower of course. Felt much better upon finishing than I would have trying to meet power or pace goals. good reminders. Keep it coming.
  • This is really awesome! a very relevant topic as I analyze the ride i posted to my micro thread for yesterday. love the idea of a monthly WDL video!! GREAT STUFF!!

    I also try to use time of day to manage heat on long efforts in the summer. Do them late in the day or early in the AM, run on the side of the road that will have shade on the brutal hot (and humid) days, etc.. 
  • Beyond time management of workouts one of the keys for me is hydration not only during the workout but after and during work.  Any additional outside work, helping outside in the garden must also be factored in to the hydration efforts to remain topped up for the next workout. 
  • I often struggle with which is better..quality work out or training in the heat to deal with race day conditions.  Biking long gets you out in the cool and finishing in the heat.  I have pretty much dialed in my hr for bricks which are usually in the hotter times of the day.  Having lurked on the IM hr for the run threads, I use this strategy (especially since I am not a life long runner and this is my hardest leg of the race) and it has worked better for me vs. pace based racing.  

    It think this info is key for many of us who are so pace/power driven.  Tuning in to the body's signals vs pushing through  aka HTFU mentality in the heat is pretty important.  

    New for me this year is using a preload drink the night before big/hot workouts.  I think it prepares me better for the work and helps me recover a bit better too (along with my regular recovery drink).  It will be part of my training and racing moving forward.  
  • Ok @Trish Marshall What is the secret Preload drink?
  • That was my question. How could you leave us hanging like that?
  • I have switched to NBS hydration (women version) for on course fluid and they offer a preload mix.  I worked with a nutritionist and she gave me oz's to use for my bodyweight.  (about 150lbs) Basically use 3 scoops for a 24oz bottle.  It is very similar to Osmo preload.  
  • @Trish- Thanks! I'll look it up...
  • I'm a believer, I just need to practice what I believe.  For me, humidity also has a huge effect on my efforts.  I simply do not train/race/whatever in the heat and humidity.  As a northerner living in South Carolina, it truly is a matter of knowing what my body is telling me.  HR plays a large role in that, but I think there are some other internal measures (for which I have no name) that also tell me when to chill out...or in a race scenario, get after it.  My medically tested LTHR is 165.  A few years ago, I ran the JFK 50 miler averaging about that HR.  Recently, I busted a 185ish average for sprint tri run, with a top out of 193 (I get this is all out for a sprint, but I'd never seen that number before).  

    Not sure where I was going with all that:o)  Just wanted to chime in that HR training is indeed critical when you are in temps, or conditions, that dictate going away from pace/power analytics.
  • I watched it a few days ago and wish I knew/understood this last summer while training for IM Chatt.  I did many long rides where the temps hit upper 90s (heat index even higher) in the last two hours and I just watched my HR climb while maintaining watts.  The question I always wondered about was should I hit my power targets/zones or keep my HR in the prescribed zones letting my watts drop.  I always choose watts over HR.  After race season, in hindsight, I realized I probably over stressed my body on almost every long ride because my body was actually working at Z3/Z4 levels for 40-50% of the ride instead of zone 2.  This year I had decided to choose HR over watts.  With running (long runs) I always adjusted pace based on how I felt and didn't really need to wait or see a high HR.  All interval workouts were done early morning in order to hit my paces. 
    Looking forward to more of these videos. 
  • Last weekend I have a big mini race simulation day. The temperature was cool when I started on the bike but a lot hotter when I finished. I just focused on power, and it felt ok but was sort of hard at times. When I got to the run again I noticed it was really hot, but tried to stick to my pacing and felt ok the first 30 min, but absolutely out of no where just got to a point where I overheated. I had to take my shirt off and seek shade every 5 min or so. I could not cool down. I learned my lesson now and will switch to HR when it gets hot. Wish I knew this before.
  • OSMO Nutrition, Scratch Labs and NBS all have pre-load or hyper hydration drinks. Depending on the heat index and length of the race determines how much to drink. Timing it is important. If you drink it the night before you may end up having to pee all night. It's best to drink it 45- 30 minutes before the gun goes off. 
  • Question to @tim cronk and the other WSMs on this topic

    I've read Cronk say "HR can be a limiter of actual ability" on race day. That seems incongruous with this video - seems we should at least test/train our HR limits during training before race day?

    As for heat, I am guessing the aim of switching to HR is to not bonk/die of heat stroke. But assuming we do train hard in heat, is that not a way to get better (along with ideas like weight vest on run, or pull buoy in pool)?
  • @ Doug Sutherland - First off this podcast is money... While it is for everybody, it will really help those with guidance when hot, or some other factor is affecting the way the body is reacting to the work....It is ok to slow down or not hit pace... Sometimes something has to give....  80 degrees is a good cut off but will be highly individual...

    In the end it will always be RPE, if you cant hit that power number you wont, if you cant hit that pace you wont, if you cant average the HR you want you wont, you cant just force yourbody to do something it doesnt not or will not do... yes there are a few that can push past and force themselves into a danger zone but most of us mortals have a build in circuit breaker to prevent serious damage... 

    YES I believe using HR for racing is a limiter ....I am pretty much a minority in that thinking so take my thoughts with a grain of salt... Racing by RPE but collecting the HR has shown me I am capable of so much more than I thought I would be... If I had known the HR at the time I would have slowed down.... Yesterday I went out to do a 2 x 20' FTP session on the bike , UH-OH Power Meter Battery died, do you know how hard it is to do FTP intervals without collecting the data???  Luckily I had my HR strap,  I performed the 2 x 20' WKO blind with NO Power (did not look at HR NOT once until file was downloaded)... Long story short my avg HR for those 2 x 20's were 171 vs.  the avg HR of my last four 2 x 20' wkos were 167-173...  So at least in this instance HR later validated that I was indeed working as hard as I thought I was or equivilent to the last 4 similar wko's were I was using power.....

    This stuff is never a either or, its just good guidance, that needs to be applied and adapted to individually!
  • I am with Tim on the fact that HR is a race limiter, as mentioned before, if I hit that BPM on that "needed" speed/pace.. I will until the RPE makes me backoff.

    I also see the HR as a reaction of the past few seconds effort and not the current effort, so in my mind its kind of useless
  • Nice video and great discussion  (I don't have anything "new" to add, but here is a lot of the same stuff the way it is processed by my mind)...

    I am one of the "bigger dudes" in here from a pure muscle standpoint.  I find that the heat on the bike effects me a LOT LESS on the bike.  Moving along creates a constant ~20mph breeze that helps me shed some of the heat.  In bike "training", I generally don't dial my longer IM training efforts back much in the heat.  Like others have said, just seems like more "training" for me, but I have to be very cognizant to drink more during the effort and definitely drink more after...   You have to be aware if you are digging yourself a hole and heat stress and "normal" training stress are both stressors and you have to give your body the ability to recover for them so you can lather, rinse, repeat.  For me personally (YMMV), I have found that my body can handle more of this training "stress" than I have time to put into it, so more bike stress is generally "good" stress for me.  However, I am keeping aware of my HR numbers as I do my long rides and watch them as I chase a Power number.  I basically log them away for retrieval from my brain database on race day.   Racing is a slightly different beast where if it's very hot, I will not chase a pre-race "Goal NP" if my HR is creeping up.  But during a race, you generally have a lot easier time getting in extra hydration and also having extra water to douse yourself with to cool down a bit.

    The run for me is a totally different animal.  I simply must dial it back in hot and especially in humid days on the run.  I cannot hit the same paces, and I don't get too worried about it.  I can't even hit the same "efforts" that will make my HR spike up if it's too hot/muggy.  The run is different than the bike in that I can dig a big hole if I do long hard-ish training efforts in the muggy heat.  I can tell it puts me in a hole and no amount of water I drink during the run will eliminate it.  

    I am a bit different than @tim cronk regarding HR on the run during a race.  For me (during an Ironman specifically), HR often becomes a whip.  It took me learning and tinkering through 5 Ironmans before I could get a run HR profile that actually went up in the second half instead of going down as my legs faded.  So for me HR becomes a tool to force me to tell my legs and brain to "shut up" during the later parts of the run, whilst keeping a lid on crazy high levels earlier in the day if I'm getting silly on a hill or similar.    

    So Power is an awesome tool for the Ironman bike, mostly for providing a whip during training (FTP intervals or chasing a 5hr Power number), and maybe providing a restraint earlier in an IM bike leg or on hills.

    Similarly, Pace on the run also provides an awesome training tool and guide, and can help stabilize things on flat-ish race courses.
     
    But HR is an awesome to to watch how our bodies are responding/working during these work efforts.  And HR is also a great "calibrator" to what other external factors are adding extra stress to our bodies as our legs are turning over... (heat is a big one, humidity, but also illness, fear, anger, etc.).  Paying attention to these in training will pay huge dividends when thing happen to your other tools someday (i.e. dead PM battery), or when external factors are stressing your body more than the reading of your fancy power meter or gps watch on the run (heat/humidity)...
  • @Doug Sutherland - the term "HR" is a limiter is one borne out over years of racing by folks like @tim cronk. If I had a dollar for every race file where folks went too hard at the start of the bike (despite power being low, their HR was high out of T1) or too hard at the start of the run (not paying attention or accumulating too much heat) and then cracking over the second half of the run...I could quite this Q & A gig.  

    Put it this way...try it my way. I am not saying you won't get faster...I am saying you'll get faster where it counts (sustainably across a day without fading like the competition) and when you go back and review your performance if you think you under-achieved, we can talk. 

    But first...take step one... :smile:


  • I zoned out on this thread while out riding in the mountains end of last week, then racing this weekend. I want to weigh in specifically on HR and racing.

    Numero Uno, I've learned that, for me, top priority in a race is RPE. That trumps everything else. I know deep within me the effort level I can sustain for any given race length, and for the remainder of that distance at any given point of the race. That takes years to learn, I think, but it should be the desired endpoint. I won't go into *how* to learn that - that's another topic.

    For those still on the learning curve in terms of race execution, HR can be a useful tool especially when dealing with hills, heat, and running after swim/bike efforts (i.e., triathlon). It should be a whip to get you working when you are slacking, and a rein when you are putting yourself in danger, like going too hard for too long on too hot of a day. But eventually, you should learn how to dispense with HR and race by feel. My best races came after about 10 years into my tri career, when I actually went a few years taking my HR strap off in T2.

    For those just starting to figure out how to get through a long distance triathlon while retaining the ability to run all the way to the finish, the tried and try EN method of steady power based on IF on the bike, and pace-focussed restraint on the run is a good initial learning tool except when it is hot!!!

    I guess I'll never say this too many times: you cannot fully adapt to heat, meaning no matter how fit, how well trained, how many little tricks you  use, you *will* go slower in a race when it's hot. Either because you will hold a lower steady pace the whole way, or you go at your "normal" pace in the early part and then slow down, walk, pass out, whatever, later on. Heat on the run is like a headwind or a long climb on the bike. You gotta work harder to sustain the same speed you would under normal conditions (again, the reasons why are another topic), and thus you'll use up all your matches before the end of the race.
  • Great nuggets in this thread. I've had many of these Power versus HR questions as we hit 90+ degrees everyday.
  • I came to the conclusion years ago that while a watt may be a watt, it cost more on a 90degree day than a 60 degree day.  My early days in the sport were in south Georgia, where summer meant 100+ heat index by noon.  Long rides started at daylight, could get in 100 miles by noon.  After many a cramped session, I finally figured out the pacing, hydration(volume/hr and content) to keep from cramping.  But, I never figured out how to keep from slowing down as it got hotter.  I can't go by Hr alone either as too many variables affect Hr, but between power, Hr, and RPE, I have figured out how hard I can push without going over the cliff.  But it has taken 13 years, as Al mentions.  Its comes with experience.  We have that table Matt S put together that takes heat into account to customize our IM race pacing.  I think that tells the story, even if it doesn't reference Hr specifically
  • Nice video and GREAT discussion as I am trying to pay more attention to my HR vs pace on the run.  It's easy on the bike as it is displayed right where I can see it, but had always focused on pace when running.  It does make sense though; especially when it's hot and/or humid out.  Just last week I did a run on a somewhat cool day, but it was HUMID as all get out!  I was wondering why I felt so s
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