Help out an old man would ya?

David Holmes

I'm kind of a head case right now.  I don't know which direction to go.  I've been following the GF beginner plan pretty religiously.  I have 2 weeks left then move into Ironman training for IM Florida in November.  Meanwhile, I'll do Augusta 70.3 in September.  I've done a sprint, olympic and Gulf Coast 70.3 as well as a couple of HMs back in the winter.  My weekly training has been about 8 10 hours/wk since Gulf Coast in May.  I live in South Alabama where its been quite hot.  While I've been fighting like a wild man to get my weight down including one of the sponsor plans, I'm stuck at 260 plus or minus 5.  IM Florida in November will be my first IM, and I've never trained this consistently for this long.  I'm seeing no improvement.  I did a 50 mile ride yesterday that actually took 10 minutes longer than it did last year with no real reasons to point to as to why.  I'm 64.  I'm in kind of a dilemmas as to whether I'm overtrained and need to take a few days off, or am I not training enough.  I've had some mild motivation problems and had a bit of an anxiety attack in the pool the other day which is a little unusual for me although I'm not the strongest swimmer.  But I simply figured this was due to a lack of competing that I've become a little flat.  This will probably be my one chance at IM and I desperately do not want to screw it up.  Has anyone else had this problem?  Any recommendations on a solution?  All help is greatly appreciated. I'm simply to hoping to finish within the cut off.

Paul Hough

David - when you are saying you aren't seeing any improvement...what is that specifically?  Are you just referring to your weight, or other benchmarks?  For weight, I highly recommend myfitnesspal.  You need to log those calories and your exercise and set a safe weight loss of no more than 1 pound per week. If you don't cheat on the logging, you will lose weight...it's like magic!  As to the summer, it is extraordinarily stressful.  Running is slower and harder.  It takes longer to recover.  Your flagging motivation seems to be tied to the lack of results you want, not because of injuries, being overtired, too sore, or something like that.  Just follow your plan and get the weight down.  Also, consider getting onto youtube and start watching some of those ironman motivation videos.  Best of luck!!!

David Holmes

Thanks Paul I'm on like my 1100th consecutive day of my fitness pal. Core diet put me on a 3100 cal diet with 210g of protein daily. My lack of improvement is just that everything seems to stay the same my pace my endurance etc. it may just be a bit of a pity party,although I was shocked by yesterday's ride event because I felt good the whole ride but my avg speed was1.5 less than last year and I've seemed to be consistently slower since Gulf Coast which was an excellent outing but for cramps and a wreck. I guess the best thing is to just get my ass up and stick with the plan. 

Al Truscott

David - I've discovered at our age, the goal is not necessarily to show improvement in the sense of getting faster. Rather, training helps me maintain what little "speed" I have left for longer and longer periods. So I think of the training not as getting me faster, but as making me able to go farther.

The Gulf Coast 70.3 is on the same course as IM FL, right? A good rule of thumb for translating half to full times is (a) double the time then (b) add 60-90 minutes. Another way to think it thru is consider what your (s)lower limits are for making the cut-offs. Can you swim 2.4 miles in 2 hours (was your 70.3 split around an hour?) Can you bike 100 miles @ 14 miles/hour? Can you walk/run 4 miles/hour for 26 miles? If you can envision doing the legs at that pace, you will finish before the cut-off.

As to weight,  a 12 week Ironman preparation plan may not be the best time to try and lose significant weight. If finishing the event is your first priority, getting fit is job one; let your weight do what it will - probably some loss, but not magic melting. Replacing the fuel and fluid you use during each workout is imperative to prevent digging yourself into a fatigue hole.

Alicia Chase

I hear you, Dave, for us older athletes, it's always difficult knowing whether we're having a bad day, or seeing some age-related decline. And since we're really the first generation to be participating in endurance sports in large numbers, we're blazing trails and there really isn't any good data to help us out. I agree that heat could certainly be a factor in your speed/time. And I also agree that Ironman training isn't the best time to lose weight, but my one suggestion would be to take a hard look at your diet, and focus on fueling your workouts and recovery, and (if you haven't already, I don't want to assume) eliminate all calories that aren't high quality. In other words, whole fresh food, high quality meat and veggies. And eliminate processed carbs--yes, that means bread, pasta, (and alcohol!) I'm a skinny person, but had IBS-type gut issues for years, so I went on a clean diet--which basically meant whole fresh foods and gluten-free. My husband was forced to go on the same diet He's a big guy, with blood pressure and cholesterol issues. He's lost 30 lbs without actually dieting, and his overall health has improved tremendously. He eats as much as he wants and doesn't count calories. I believe older athletes can really use nutrition to help us maintain our athleticism--the body isn't as forgiving as it used to be.

David Holmes

Guys (and Gal) thanks so much for your imput all of it very helpful. @Al I can do all of those splits and that's what keeps me going.  I guess what has me spooked is I caught the finish at IM Fla this year. I saw big guys and old guys but didn't see any big old guys. I'm 80 mi from the course and it favors my strengths. So I'll just keep on keepin on. As Churchill said when you're going through Hell, keep going. 

Dave

John Culberson

@David: I'm a 58 yo lifelong 200lb athlete.  Our weight requires a lot of muscular strength to move uphill on a bike... and running will ALWAYS cause significant muscle breakdown and burn lots of calories. Loss of muscle strength with age Is a common topic in this forum, and your ability to BUILD muscle at age 64 is also markedly reduced. There is no such thing as an "easy" recovery run for us older AND larger athletes, so recovery becomes difficult. Heat absolutely affects us disproportionally as well. That said, you have built considerable muscular strength with your training plan, there isn't much bike climbing at IMF, and it will be a lot cooler on race day than it is during your typical training day during a south Alabama summer ;-)

Your decreased 50mi bike speed is almost certainly related to the heat and fatigue of successful training on a reduced caloric intake, and should not be your focus. Over the next 12 weeks, recovery will be far more problematic than "undertraining." In particular, I suspect that run training will be your biggest challenge. Exploring, (with Coach P), a walk-run strategy will certainly lessen the impact that will take its toll in training, and prepare you for the reality of IMF race day. A fast walk is a tremendous tool that provides strong durability fitness, and can be trained. Given your weight, maintaining caloric needs on race day (specifically on the bike) will also be both challenging and essential. The RR's will be key. They are a learning experience, avoid expectations. Don't worry, you'll be much more rested on race day.

 While the GF Plan has lots of intensity, an IM finish "only" requires that you meet the standards that @Al outlined. While smaller athletes get fast with intensity, big men get fast with volume. (A quote from a highly respected Ironman coach). Our weight make intensity extremely costly. Your age adds to this cost. Since EN is based on ROI, the high cost is very relevant.  Luckily, as opposed to short course, and even 70.3 distance to some extent, Ironman rewards consistent easy volume for most AG athletes anyway.

The caloric demand of IM training in your case will be very high. If your primary goal is the IMF finish line, the best way to get there is to "fuel those big muscles" and put in as much race pace work as possible. The added volume will prepare you to finish... and I agree with @Al that in order to complete the work, (ie recover daily), you may need to relax your focus on weight. IMHO, 3100c/day will not come close to supporting an IM build in a 260 lb athlete. In fact, part of the reason that you may be having difficulty with weight loss is that you are building muscle. Coach P can help you to modify your IM plan... that may not be specific to us older "Big Units."

David Holmes

Wow @John Culberson  This is why I'm so happy with EN. The encouragement and well stated advice, both are encouraging and motivating. Looking at the guidelines @Al set out made me much more confident of beating cutoff, really my only goal. I must say hitting 3100 cal has been very challenging without dissolving into a lot of garbage food. I'm getting some menu plans from Core Diet. Also I noticed today in doing some arm chair analysis, that my zone 3 & 4 time over the last week has exceeded my z 1&2 time. So I think I'm pushing too hard trying to get faster and I'm creating that hole. I took today off and I'll swim tomorrow hopefully I'll have a little recovery by Tuesday. 

John Culberson

@David: I got whacked down by some serious heat here in west Texas today. Looks like my HR climbed well into Zn4 by the end of the hour. Since my pace was at TRP where it belonged... the true stress of the run was evident in my HR, and if I'm honest with myself, my perceived exertion. I knew that I was going too hard. That run will affect workouts somewhere down the line this week, and provided little benefit. (I was running at IM Pace while my HR was at open 10K Pace) That is the type of training error that will limit my progress. If I am to reach my goals in M60-64 at IM distances, I need to discipline myself to be a "training ninja." There is no place for ego during training. As @Paul Hough mentioned, one needs to be comfortable reducing pace markedly in the heat. He has commented on the difficulty of training for a late season race while dealing with the Florida summer heat. He also has a track record of success in doing so :-) If your Zn3&4 time is exceeding your Zn1&2 time, I think that you may have just learned an important lesson! Each workout is an opportunity to practice our discipline. The most important workout of the year is always tomorrow.

Paul Hough

@david I assume that 3100 calorie target excludes exercise right?  I have been using 2050 per day which is a half pound per week target loss.  Then I add calories for workouts.  On a big Sat or Sun that could mean 7-8000 calories for a small guy like me.  With your IM workouts I would figure you around 4-5K daily average.

David Holmes

@Paul Hough
its 3100 should be 3500 for a 10 hr training week, 4200 for 15 and 4700 for 20 hr.  The BMR with no exercise is 2350. Problem is I'm only getting about 2600 so I've got to figure how to get the calories in my 5 meals a day without doing something stupid like cleaning out the Publix bakery.