Help me get my head on straight...please
So, this was my race result from IM NOLA 70.3 in April this year.
Stephen Anderson
| BIB | AGE | STATE/COUNTRY | PROFESSION |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1458 | 30 | Germantown TN USA |
| SWIM | BIKE | RUN | OVERALL | RANK | DIV.POS. |
| 37:32 | 2:39:52 | 1:38:06 | 5:01:32 | 206 | 20 |
| LEG | DISTANCE | PACE | RANK | DIV.POS. |
| TOTAL SWIM | 1.2 mi. (37:32) | 1:58/100m | 467 | 50 |
| TOTAL BIKE | 56 mi. (2:39:52) | 21.02 mph | ||
| TOTAL RUN | 13.1 mi. (1:38:06) | 7:29/mile | 206 | 20 |
| TRANSITION | TIME | |||
| T1: SWIM-TO-BIKE | 3:57 | |||
| T2: BIKE-TO-RUN | 2:05 | |||
My vDot is currently 48.5 and I will hopefully be increasing that as I am in the OS for about another 11 weeks before starting my official training for IM COZ in November. I am new to triathlon and have been through one OS with EN (this past winter for 15 weeks) and have only done one other race in my career (IM 70.3 Rhode Island in 2009 - 5:25 time).
Here is my question...what vDot should I be shooting for to put me in a position to post a sub 10 hour time for IM COZ this year (given the right weather and variables on race day)? Is it even something that would be reasonable for me to be thinking about? I want to create some focus for myself during this OS cycle and want to really get my head around the work that I have to do to put myself in a position to post that kind of time.
As for the Oschner. 70.3 above..I definitely left some effort out on the bike course for this outing, as I was truly focused on nailing my run (which went to plan). When I say "left some on the course", I mean that I think I could have run about a 2:30 and been okay still for the run...not a HUGE difference, but, something I learned from. Also, those transitions were just horribly performed and that I was just terrible...I recognize that too!.
Thoughts? What is a measurable target for me to be shooting for do you guys think?
Thanks
Comments
I agree, your VDot already IS above 50. Enter a 5 K after two weeks of speed work, then train for the rest of the year based on those new IPs and TPs you'll get. IM success for you THIS YEAR will not be based the slight increase running speed you might get in the next 10 weeks, but on the biking strength and endurance you're able to develop, so you can take take full advantage of the run speed you already have, and the endurance you will develop over the next 5 months. A full on assault through August of 2 days a week of bike intervals, and 2 days of hard-ish 2-4 hour rides, with maintaining your running strength should set you up best for success at the end of November.
While simple extrapolation from your NOLA 70.3 time (even 10 minutes faster) makes a sub-10 hour IM unlikely, a much better predictor will be your race rehearsal efforts you'll do in Sept and Oct.
One last thought - there's an IM cliche that "you should always feel like you could have gone 15 minutes faster on the bike." 1/2 IM, I guess you should feel like you could have gone7 -8 minutes faster
So I think the easiest answer is your vdot and bike and swim and race mojo need to be in full effect and as fast as possible on the day!
Interested in other input,
P
Wish I could have a goal of sub 10 IM for my 3rd triathlon! Looks like fitness is close but agreeing with Coach P and Al that Sept/Aug will be crucial. 5:15 bike is something that comes with years of training and it looks like you have a good jump on it, but keep in mind that wind/weather will play a role. I think it is awesome that you set a goal that is hard by any measure because it is really something tough to shoot for. Rooting for you all the way!
YES, I would love to break 10 come Nov, but, I really think I will be satisfied with putting myself in a position that, come race day, I can honestly have a race execution plan that would produce the result...then, I will let mother nature shape the day as she see's fit! That's all we can really do anyway...isn't it!
I love EN!
Steve, it's a lofty goal on any race. It took me, as a former college swimmer, 3 races and 2.5yrs of very, very solid work to go 10:05 at IMWI on a perfect day in 2002. I went 10:02 at IMCDA in 2005 on another great day.
My advice is to focus on the work to get your VDot and FTP as high as you can get it, apply execution skills to your fitness and let time shake itself out.
You have some good advice above. I will just add that only 45 people went sub 10 at Cozumel last year and 25 of those were pro's. How many of the remaining 20 do you think were doing their 3rd race or first IM? Also, only 4 of those people swam longer than an hour and no one more than 1:02:xx. Further, IM is hard. That "general rule" that you take your half time, double it and add an hour is nonsense. Most people anywhere near taking a run at 10 hours are going low 4:30's for halfs or better. Lots of consistent 4:3x half finishers have never come close to breaking 10.
Is it doable? Sure. Is it a great goal, Yep. Should you be remotely surprised or disappointed if you do not go sub 10 in your first IM, nope. It is a bit of a cliche [and I know really hard for people that are so driven to succeed] but I suggest trying to enjoy it and let it come to you. It is great to run down a finishing chute surprised and thrilled with how well you have done and that you have done it at all. Let the super anal, time chasing, slot chasing stuff come later after you have had some fun with it. If you talk to people who have chased a number [or a slot] you often hear about a many year campaign with lots of effort and setbacks along the way.
Keeping the specific advice given in this thread in mind, as well as the disclaimers CoachR put here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum....=;#2797065
@Steve - why sub 10? Is that based on last years Kona qualifiers in your AG? I know that the top-5 slots in 40-45 (my AG) went sub-10:30 but it seems that this AG can be quicker than some of the younger guys by some way.
Have you checked last years results and checked their times/splits? If not that'd give you an actual indication of what needs to be done - you may not need sub-10 which sounds a mega-quick time for Coz plus worth remembering that the swim times were quick for everyone (despite non-wetsuit) however some say that the swim was slightly short and also tide assisted to degree.
Think I'll be approaching Coz with last years times in the background - do my own race & execute - lay MY cards on the table and see what happens in the final shake-up.
@Al - maybe reading your comment incorrectly but are you saying run VDOT gains are harder to achieve than FTP increases OR focusing on bike strength/endurance - in the short-medium term, i.e. sub -20 weeks - would be a better mid-season strategy?
My reasons for asking - I'm also doing IMCoz - I have a 70.3 this weekend and then its approx 22 wks to the IM - I'm reasonable OK on the bike but my VDOT (as Steve's) is around 50 (so c. 4w/kg bike but only 50 VDOT). So, in short, my bike to run ratio is kinda out of whack!
Although I was going to ask the Haus this question next week - given your advice above - would you be focusing on bike still or working on VDOT increase over a 20 wk training period? Focus on really crushing the bike with a 4.5w/kg and building run endurance OR maintain my existing bike FTP and focus on getting the VDOT up a few points?
@ David - here is my thinking (I think): Improvements are usually along a hyperbolic curve, with more and more effort and time needed to gain less and less of an improvement the faster and/or more experienced one is in a speed sport. At the level Steve appears to be at in running, he will probably gain little raw speed during the next 20 weeks of training. His assumed VDOT is clearly wrong, so he needs to first find out how fast he is NOW, by doing a test like a 5K race, and then compare his performance in that 70.3 with his current potential. If there is a gap - I bet there's a 90% chance his real VDOT would indicate he has the *potential* to have gone faster (see Craig Harris' spreadsheet) - then getting faster in the run VDOT test won't help as much as maximizing his current potential. What will help, in addition to perfect race execution, is honing his bike strength to the needs of the IM distance. I'm not necessarily suggesting a higher FTP, although that would be a bonus, but rather being able to better translate his FTP to an improved bike leg. In power language, that might be increasing his potential IF in the IM from 0.70 towards 0.75. Looking at the "Legs Bank Account" spreadsheet, that would be moving from the green zone into the yellow zone, as close as possible to the orange zone.
Note to Steve: the above comments about IF are a VERY risky strategy for a first IM. Unless you are a big risk taker, one should stick with a plan for IF of 0.7 to 0.72, rather than 0.72-5. If the 0.72 results in a good run, step up a point or two in the next race.
In part, I'm speaking from my own experience over the past 5 years. Without either increasing my my VDOT, or going faster on the bike leg, I have managed to drop my run time during the IM on a steady basis from 4:30 to 4:03, and hope to drop another 2 minutes in CDA. I did this, also, without increasing my weekly run or biking mileage. What I did, in addition to learning how to execute a race, was to keep plugging away at bike intervals. For both the swim and the bike, I care more about making those legs EASIER, not necessarily FASTER during the race. Once I've maximized my potential on the run (about 3:55-7, I think), then I'll try to start riding faster on the bike. Unless you're in your 20s, improving a VDOT over 50 is MUCH harder than improving bike FTP and endurance, I think, as well as providing less benefit come race day.
From my perspective & with the Coz also being my 1st full IM, i'm thinking the gains I'd receive in Vdot, endurance & w/kg would be greater - given the limited training period - by sorting out my body composition (safely of course) as personally I know i could lose 5lbs or so quite easily. Certainly would benefit considering the heat & humidity in Mexico.
Looks like he got his Kona slot at IM st.George this year.
From what I hear, slots did roll down a tad at Coz, here's hoping bro! :-)
He looked at me and told me that he knows all of the competitive triathletes in the Memphis area (where I live) and that he doesn't know but 2-3 that have been able to clear that bar. Of course, that ignited me! He is encouraged me that he thought I could get there, but, just didn't know if this was the race for that yet. I understand where he is coming from, and I even mostly agree with him. BUT, if, inside the Haus, I can position myself between now and then to have a legitimate RR that would roughly be in that kind of timeframe, then, I would be so excited. I have a lot of work to do...but, hey, Roger Banister wasn't supposed to be able to break 4 minutes for the mile - but he did.
This post was really a 'feeler' for me...a "what's it really look like and is it something I should put aside before growing TOO attached to it"...and I think I will hold on to that hope through the OS and hopefully it will fuel some great workouts and some strong weekend rides!
We'll see!
@Steve - obviously (despite the thread title!) you do have your head straight/screwed-on right about this. I got involved in this thread 'cos I believe we're kinda similar it seems - I love to shoot for a Kona slot at Coz but I also appreciate the limiters involved BUT, won't stop doing everything in my powers to train for it!
Time will be our biggest limiter - OK, you're slightly ahead of me as you've already started your Coz training - for me I'll have approx 21 weeks to step up from HIM. Unless I'm directed otherwise by RnP I'll be focusing getting my weight down, run mechanics sorted out, work on run speed (quicker 5k/10k pace), focus on my race-pace bike economy for longer distances. IOW, I'll be relying on my existing & half-decent endurance engine - which you obviously have too - to get me through the training phase and race - plus of course sheer mental determination and EN execution, the most important element.
Thats my thoughts at the minute and based on the little I've learnt about my self thru the last 5yrs of bike training - big factor for me is keeping my old body together, I do have functional imbalances that have plagued my racing; pre-UK70.3 in a few days time, I'm nursing a hamstring strain caused by wedging a cleat; it rectified a lumbar soreness issue but overloaded a different area! No one said it was easy! :-)
Catch up in IMCoz thread perhaps Steve, share some training mojo!