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2017 IM Louisville- Week 12- LOVE the chatter- TESTING

LOVING THE CHATTER!!!! This forum is alive and well and you are all KILLIN IT!!!!! So onto week 12. 

Week 12 - Be a Scientist!

This week is a test week.  The coaches want us to focus on the following:

- Measure

- Gather Data

- Don’t forget to Sweat Test


When you head to an Ironman event, you will see lots of athletes suffer because they did not know something as simple as having a nutrition plan.  However- in the “haus”, EN’rs know how important EXECUTION is because we practiced and show up prepared. Lots of little things can take a toll on you over 140.6 miles.  Having muscles be so tight on the run from poor form on the bike. Not knowing sodium totals to account for the change in temperature on the course.  Not knowing their power meter numbers, not knowing their heart rate numbers in case power meter fails, etc. Coach Patrick has said how important it is to have multiple "A games" because so many things can change within a race. This is what we talk about when we say "stay inside your box" You can adapt and change to the things outside of your control on the course but that comes from testing, gathering data about your body, how it reacts to nutrition, heat, cold, rain etc. And those results are gathered now. Be a scientist, a student of your body as an athlete in this sport. This is another reason why posting in the forum and weekly training recaps is critical!!!

Here are the sweat test rules in case you forgot or haven't done one in awhile

1) Weigh yourself nude right before a run.

2) Run at race pace for one hour, keeping track of how much you drink (in ounces) during the run.

3) After the run, strip down, towel off any sweat, and weigh yourself nude again.

4) Subtract your weight from your prerun weight and convert to ounces. Then add to that number however many ounces of liquid you consumed on your run. (For example, if you lost a pound and drank 16 ounces of fluid, your total fluid loss is 32 ounces.)

5) To determine how much you should be drinking about every 15 minutes, divide your hourly fluid loss by 4 (in the above example it would be 8 ounces).

6) Because the test only determines your sweat losses for the environmental conditions you run in that day, you should retest on another day when conditions are different to see how your sweat rate is affected. You should also redo the test during different seasons, in different environments (such as higher or lower altitudes), and as you become faster, since pace also affects your sweat rate.


Coach Patrick does a GREAT video this week on managing your long run and all its effects.  CHECK IT OUT! He explains how to get the most out of it with the least amount of impact on everything else.  

P.S. Ya'll Rock - Now go out there and crush it!


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Comments

  • @Derrek Sanks
    switching the discussion here.

    If carrying alot of bottles with you is an issue, can you think of a road that you can repeat and know that you can refill the bottles ? When doing the long RR I always do the same road, I know that each turn around has waters and corner store where I can buy or refill as needed - that helps alot on the logistic !

    have a nice testing week !
  • @Laura Becker - Great lead in to test week!

    I'm planning to bike test either Tuesday or Wednesday, based on how I'm feeling Tuesday.  I'm planning to test outside, which will be my first outside test this year (others have been on the trainer).  I'm not doing the run test as I'm very comfortable with my running paces.

    Anyone else testing? Outside or on the trainer?
  • I have mixed emotions about testing right now, but my plan will be to do a 2 X 20' on Tuesday.  I have been hitting a target number on the shorter intervals and I want to see if I can hold it on the longer 20' interval.  I have a stretch of decent road with low traffic that I will do these.  I do have to turn around twice, but it adds up to about 10 seconds total for the whole 20 minutes.

    @Derrek Sanks I asked Coach P a few weeks ago about indoor vs. outdoor.  He recommended doing outdoor if you have a safe place to do it.  FWIY - I did the bike focus plan just before this plan and tested outside and got a new FTP number from Training Peaks.  A week later, I did a race on Zwift where I went all out for about an hour.  Training Peaks took the data from that race and gave me an FTP of 1 watt higher.  To me, that validated that mine is roughly the same inside and out.  I just find that the 20' goes by quicker outside.
  • Looking forward to this week as it will change up the training a bit. Going to hit the indoor test tomorrow morning and see where the numbers are at, haven't tested the bike since April so it should be interesting - only real challenge is mitigating the humidity in the garage. Already have a plan in plan. @Derrek Sanks, like you I am good with my run paces right now. It will really be a bit of a short run week, but a bit of a reload is ok! Just have to convince myself of that. I'll put the extra effort into the swim this week to throw some extra volume in on the swim days - 3600 today and will do about 3600-3800 on Wednesday. I'm really happy with the way things are progressing and also loving the chatter!
  • My last FTP number is from an Olympic triathlon June 11, so I'm planning to test tomorrow.  Hopefully outside, although I've always done the 20-minute test indoors in the past.  It's interesting to see @Brian Hagan your equal results both inside an outside; I've always assumed outdoor numbers were 5% higher

    The other factor for me is that I did a bike fit session today.  Wasn't expecting too much to change, but wow things are different!  Switched to the Cobb JOF saddle, which allowed for a more forward pelvic tilt; which led to the front end coming down 25 mm; which leads to needing shorter cranks since my legs now touch the lowest rib in the aero position.

    I honestly think my max power will be reduced in this new position, but who cares about FTP at this point; I want to hold a nice steady power in a spectacular aero position for 5 hours, and be comfortable the whole time.  Here's the "after" pic:



  • @Francis Picard - Yes, for most rides I usually do loops (from 48-25 miles) back to my car or routes with known rest stops/stores. 
    @Brian Hagan - sounds like your FTP is solid, plus the 2x20 will give a good FTP too.  Have fun!
    @Paul Curtin - sounds like good changes to your bike fit. I think being more comfortable in aero position produces on average higher power over longer hours...IOWs higher 5 hr power.

  • @Paul Curtin 25 mm sounds like a big change.  I will be interested in knowing how that feels at the end of your ride Saturday.  

    I've changed my mind and am going to do the standard 20 min test today.  

    Also, on the loops, I do  similar to what @Derrek Sanks  mentioned.  I've have been doing loops in a park where I go my car every 35 miles.  I've been trying to keep the stop to a minimum.  I open the rear hatch, refill bottles and go.  I like this, because I know I need to be empty (mostly) by the time I get to my car.   I keep everything in a cooler on ice, so it taste better and makes we want to drink.

    As for the sweat test...  I do not think its necessary to get naked if you are wearing the same clothes in both weigh-ins (before and after).  I would get arrested if I did that at the parking lot of the park.......
  • FTP Test done.  Last FTP was December 2015 (NP 214, FTP 203).  I tried in January 2016, failed and got discouraged.  Just kept using an FTP based on my last test and where I felt like I was.  Finally tried again in January 2017.  Failed again.  Again just kept using the old number.  Then today.  I was not looking forward to it.  I felt like I had made some improvements and really needed a good new test number to continue dialing in my training.  Well it happened.  I got through this one and yes my number was better.  NP today was 228 with FTP at 217.  Finally a breakthrough.  I must say that when I was done I was done.  I have updated my Training Peaks and my Garmin so that my training will be dialed in as I go forward.  Still a heavy guy but at long last I have broken the 2 W/kg.  Now to work on the other side of the W/kg equation while I continue to work on the FTP. 
  • @Bill Eckert, way to make it through the test! You are correct in working the other side of the equation now. You'll continue to find gains on both ends! I too tested this morning and bumped my FTP up 15 watts since April and lowered my body weight by about 10#. It can be done, keep at it!
  • Even though it is a bit of a slow week, its a bit quite here. Lots of local travel today, 4 mile run this am and backed it up with a 3k swim tonight. Back on the road tomorrow with the split run, I continue to focus on 30+ miles per week during the 12 week build. 
  • Wow Jeff!  Lots of travel.  @Bill Eckert that is fantastic!
      
    I ended up doing the standard 5'/20' test on a strip of good road.  I was happy to see a bit of a bump, and I want to see if I can use that number to set a higher NP target for Saturday.

    I went for a 6 mile run today at TRP effort by HR.  My training partner has left me to go do his first IM at Mont-Tremblant, so I am going to do the run myself.  I do not like the split run, so I will be doing them both together in one long run after work tomorrow.

    Good luck with the rest of your week everyone! 
  • @Brian Hagan - Always nice to see a FTP bump! Keep in mind that if you're not doing the split LR, the guidance is to run 75% of the total time.  I read that in the split LR guidance a couple weeks ago.  One of the reasons for splitting the LR is to get in more volume with less impact/recovery on the body.  I don't like the logistics of the split run but enjoy doing 2 shorter runs without the fatigue of 1 longer run.

    @Bill Eckert - Great job on the FTP.  It's truly an art to nailing FTP test, especially on a trainer

    I tested outside, TT bike, in aero position. Result was 250 FTP, which was a little lower than what I was expecting but in-line with recent FTP workouts.  After Nov OS, my FTP was 276 on a road bike, on a trainer and I knew it was lower as I self adjusted it to 258 several weeks ago. It's good to know where I stand.  I did the Wed swim this AM and plan to do the split LR tomorrow.  
  • @Jeff Kane - Congrats on the FTP bump and weight loss.  I should/will drop 8-10 pounds over the next several weeks to get back to my race weight.
  • Well we are having thunderstorms all day today, so I may need to run on the TM.  @Derrek Sanks when I trained for IM Texas in 2016, there was a point where the split runs changed to a long long run, and I suffered and did not feel prepared for the switch.  I feel, for me, the long run prepares me much better.  I have no issues with the swim the next morning and recovering in time for the Saturday ride.  I think everyone is different, but my notes from my last IM cycle tell me not do the split and start the longer runs sooner.  Plus...  the long run is my second favorite wko of the week.
  • Crazy-busy week for me, but managed to get in some quality work.  It was strange to only swim on Monday and Wednesday: felt like I should have done more; but actually just didn't have time so it worked out; Wednesday's swim was my best pool session to date with 3800 meters and a lot of steady-state work

    Tuesday's FTP test was shortened to 10' instead of 20' -- the new bike position seems good but I got really uncomfortable trying to push it.  Hopefully that works itself out.  New shorter crank arms will be installed tomorrow

    @Brian Hagan - from that blog you shared I found the power calculator site and it was interesting
    https://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/MonodCriticalPower.aspx

    It seemed to do well interpolating between two points, but trying to extrapolate 60' power from recent 5' and 10' numbers led to a lot of variability ... a higher 5' power number seemed to reduce FTP given the same 10' power.  I'm going to run another 20' test to be more certain of FTP

    Today's split run went well -- got in the full 75 minutes this morning and another 60 minutes this evening.  Legs are tired but hopefully I recover for tomorrow's WKOs
  • edited August 18, 2017 1:08PM
    Well I think I would have done much better doing the split runs yesterday.  It is not normally that humid here in Southeast Michigan, but the thunderstorms ended and it got real humid relative to what I am used to.  At mile nine, my socks and shoes were soaked and sweat was flying all over.  I shuffled back to my car and called it a day.

    @Paul Curtin I will check that out.

    Question for you all who follow your PMC / CTL etc...  I just do not like how it gives rTSS based off of pace for the run.  Can you change it to go off of %of max HR?  I was super slow yesterday Z1 speed but Z4 heart rate.
  • I skipped the FTP test this week.  Instead, I've been using the results of my most recent sprint tri bike leg from a couple of weeks ago https://www.strava.com/activities/1120549166.  Honestly, I don't think it would really increase that much so I kept my headspace clear (I hate FTP tests) and did z4 work.

    My husband was on travel all week, and my schedule was a little wonky.  I couldn't fit in the split run with my work schedule and the kids' activities so ended up doing just one long run.  It was longer that 75% but I wanted to do a half.  I think I descended that pretty well: https://www.strava.com/activities/1134858883

    Got a run in this morning, then off to swim later today.  We are heading up to Bryson City for the weekend to ensure we are in 100% totality of the eclipse.  Will be taking the trainer with me unless you all may know of some good rides up there.  I do plan on kayaking the Nantahala....whitewater kayaking was my thing before I got the tri bug.

    Overall feeling good about things. Glad this week was what it was with all the work/travel/fall sports starting.  It's hardly fall here. So sick and tired of the humidity.  I know LOU will feel amazing compared to this!
  • Solid swim this morning (WU:300 MS1:3500 CD:100 = 3900 total in 1:06:48). Used pull buoy for the MS and swam a nice smooth and even pace. I have used the wetronome a lot over the last 6 weeks when I began to swim serious again and it has helped a lot! I primarily use it as a pacing tool for my sets to ensure I remain even throughout. It really showed this morning. Once I joined EN, after IMLOU (Swam 1:07:xx) last year, I drank the kool-aid and only swam about 10-15 times (over 8 months) going into July. In the interim I did a lot of band work to supplement and save time. Ironically enough, I really didn't lose much off of what I ended last season with. It will be interesting to see how the swim progresses in the coming weeks as the volume increases. Looking forward to the weekend of training!

  • @Brian Hagan - I hear ya...it took me awhile to buy into the split LRs (I only did 1 or 2 last year).  I like doing one LR too, but with the humidity in N. VA right now, I'm appreciating the split runs. I hope when the plan goes to the one LR our weather will be more tolerable for running long. 

    My focus for Saturday's ride is nutrition and drinking 3 bottles an hour (2 of GE and 1 water) and one gel.  With 4 bottle holders, this means I need to find a 25-35 mile loop to refuel each hour.  This will give me 470 cals/hr. 

    I hope everyone have a good training weekend.


  • edited August 18, 2017 11:46PM
    @Brian Hagan  --TrainingPeaks allows you change the TSS calculation for an individual workout

    From the WKO details screen, there's a combo box on the TSS line that lets you switch from rTSS to hrTSS.  I just tried this and it instantly changed my TSS for that workout as well as for the weekly total


  • Awesome! Thanks!
  • Some great training this weekend ... got in the rides Saturday and Sunday

    Honing in on nutrition: Saturday was 358 calories per hour ... a bit on the low side for 4+ hours; Sunday was 478 per hour; somewhere in between the two seems to be the right number
  • I had a good weekend of training too.  Saturday's ride went much better than last week's.  Change in nutrition/hydration made a huge difference.  HR was in a good place all 4+ hours, even when temps (head index) hit the high 90s.  I never had to reduce effort to lower HR.  I had 2 bottles of GE and 1 bottle of water per hour and one gel per hour.  Thanks @Paul Curtin. I did four 22 mile loops which allowed me to refuel at my car after each loop. I also peed twice.  Sunday's ride was 3 hours on the trainer with Netflix.  Used the same fueling plan but with slightly less water.  Now I need to add some protein to my plan. I was very hungry after both rides.  My infinit mix had 7 grams of protein and I never finished a long ride hungry.  Also, I like the new GE (at least the lime flavor). About to order some more this week.
  • @Derrek Sanks -- that reminds me I still haven't tried the new GE formula; the can is almost gone so it's time to order.  I see they have two new flavors - fruit punch and cherry ... have you tried either?

    @Brian Hagan -- new bike setup seems to be working ... at least for now.  Rode 90 Saturday and 58 Sunday; arms and butt are sore from the new position and new saddle; but my back wasn't stiff ... that tells me the improved hip angle was a good adjustment
  • Great work @Derrek Sanks and @Paul Curtin over the weekend. I too am dialing in the nutrition and hydration and think I am about there. 88 mile bike  and 4.2 mile progressively faster brick on Saturday and 43 mile bike on Sunday. Now, I just need to focus on closing down the gap in my VI 1.07 and 1.06 over the two rides. Any thoughts?
  • @Jeff Kane -- how did you calculate VI?  I've found that TrainingPeaks shows an erroneous figure; for me it's counting time for refueling stops and other breaks, even though I press pause on the Garmin.  Not sure if this is happening for you as well, as Brian H doesn't have this issue.

    My work-around is to push the lap button to track an interval.  As an example, Saturday I did 3 x 60' Z3 with 15-minute recoveries between sets.  TrainingPeaks says overall ride VI was 1.12, but each interval was at 1.03
  • VI is NP/AP, and yes starting and stopping is going to cause it to be higher.  For my ride, my Normalized Power was 202 and my average power was 186.  This is not good....  VI = 1.08.  @Paul Curtin and @Jeff Kane it may be better to look at the VI per interval and see if there are maybe one or two that are the culprits.  Also, for some reason my watch calculated one second at 8469 watts  B)!  Is there a way to delete the second or 2 from my file?  It's jacking up some of my charts.

    My main issue with VI, is that I have been riding with a guy who is a bit faster than me.  I don't draft him, but I just try to keep him in my sites.  I eventually catch him at stop lights or when we meet back at the car (2 stops per ride), but every now and then I have to put my head down and go harder than I should to catch up to him.  Also, the route we have been doing has about 4500 ft in elevation game, and I have been going up the climbs harder than I should (sometimes) for interval work.  I believe I have been getting stronger by riding with him, but my VI is high and the second half of my ride is weaker when he drops me I go on my own.

    We have camp week coming up in a few weeks, so I plan to try to ride more to goal watts for those rides.  I will take Friday off work and ride solo.

    As for nutrition.....  I looked at my plan for IM.  I was thinking that if I took in that much on a 5 hr bike ride without running a long run after, I would be taking in a lot of excess calories.  I depend on GE for a lot of my sodium intake, but I am not drinking 2 bottles an hour like I would in a race.   I am going to start taking the salt tabs during my training rides to get more sodium, and I bet that will help me in the second half of my training ride.

    Also, my knee starting hurting in the last hour.  I am pretty sure it is because I got new pedals that have a different type of cleat.  I need to get in with my bike fitter and make sure they are at the right setting.  No issues at all on the run, so I am pretty sure that is it.

    @Derrek Sanks - So glad things went better this weekend.  I had a small taste of the humidity you get, and know it must be such a challenge!
  • edited August 21, 2017 3:44PM
    Also, for some reason my watch calculated one second at 8469 watts  B)!  Is there a way to delete the second or 2 from my file?  It's jacking up some of my charts.
    Brian - I just figured out how to do this.  Expand a workout and get to the data grid chart.  From here you can highlight a section ... see below where it's highlighted in blue (that vertical blue stripe at about the 25-minute mark).  Once it's highlighted the Zoom and Cut buttons appear.  Then you can hone in on the spurious data and clip it.

    I just did this for my 2 "refill" intervals.  You can see the new blank spaces at the 1:40 and 3:05 marks.  It recalculated total time, average power, and VI.  Much better!



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