Training Peaks Use/Value

Gary Lewis

I've had my data from Garmin Connect syncing to my TrainingPeaks account for all of my workouts.  I have seen past posts from the Wicked Smart Members using WKO, GC and TP.  Other than looking at the graph that I really don't understand, how does everyone use this info?

• Does it influence your training plan?
• Do you just use it for taper?
• Do you load all of your workouts into it somehow?
• Is WKO worth spending money on or is it just more detail I won't understand?

Prior post from 2 years ago: https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/20013/training-peaks-q-a-thread/p1 didn't seem to answer these questions.

Scott Dinhofer said:

i realize there is a huge "help" forum (http://help.trainingpeaks.com) 
are there any good "how to" videos/ pages that experienced users find helpful, it's a bit underwhelming in discovering how to use it effectively.

Now that everyone has some time/years under their belt, I would love to hear how it helped you and the short story on how to use it.

scott dinhofer

I have found that TP has been one of the best monitoring tools there is. That said, what information it gives you is determined by what you put into it. Essentially your threshold values for S, B & R. 
these drive the outputs for the PMC which is probably the most valuable chart  - learn about it here and poke around there knowledge base for more articles. 

Let's start with the bike, easiest. Enter FTP in settings, that said, how accurate is the FTP? how "good" was your test?
Run Threshold, again, a good V-dot test driven pace # per mile.
Swim - this one they don't get right all the time, but my pace per 100 yards is what I can do in one 100 yard interval when warmed up and rested, I think I've only swam that pace 1 or 2 intervals in the last year. 

If you want to scope my Strava and see what I am hitting and how it stacks up, FTP=261 (should be higher I think), run pace 7:07, swim 1:30/100yards

now the PMC is a trend-line, you are looking for a nice even steady build, see the blue line drawn on the my PMC below(Nov 1 to this morning), as you can see, I fell in a bit of a hole in the reset after both IMPR 70.3 & IMLP... but it should help you get the idea... see how big weeks, camps, etc disrupt the regularity of good hard weeks that build... 
Also note the yellow line showing the good regular rhythm I developed as soon as my mind reset after PR70.3

Hopefully others will chime in as I am no where near expert on this. 

Al Truscott

Agree with Scott about the value of PMC over the course of a season, and from season-to-season. I use it daily to make sure I am getting the work that I need, and to predict potential training overload. Digging deeper into WKO, there is an almost endless pool of possible data manipulation one can try. Most of the "charts" are user generated; the program rewards those who take the time too understand how to manipulate their data. If you're looking for a cookie cutter, you'll be frustrated. I have used it for things like: Pedaling efficiency (there is a whole "pack" of charts related to that.), tracking my weekly work in all three sports - IF, TSS, elevation gain, distance, speed, etc - through summaries I built myself, so I could see just what I wanted to; the Mean Maximal Power curve - essential to undersrtand "five hour power", as well as what type of intervals to work on; and some of the newer Coggin-generated metrics like Time To Exhaustion, Functional Reserve Capacity, and Stamina, which all provide some guidance on what type of training might be most useful.

The WKO application not really a training diary so much as a powerful analytic tool. That said, I also use: Strava Premium (mostly to play with age-specific KOMs and use their low-level analytics), free Garmin Connect (as a storage site for my Fenix data); PowerTap's free poweragent (a great analytic tool for cycling, as I have their Joule for my head unit), and a simple diary I bought about 15 years ago that provides great high level summaries when I am trying to compare year-to-year or look at how I do in certain workouts/courses over time. What I DON'T use is the online TrainingPeaks site, except to the extent that my workouts go thru the web from Garmin >> TP >> WKO 4.0 on my computer.

To answer your question, I feel I got top value for my $ when I purchased the Mac OS WKO. And it requires no monthly subscription fee.

Peter Greagg

I agree with Al's comment about WKO4 about how it's great strength is that it can measure improvements in things like Time to exhaustion, and stamina - both of which are key to success in long course triathlons. You can see how stamina changes through time and therefore work out what works etc. Obviously other things are important as well.........
Another strength of WKO4 is that it suggests Opimised Intervals in both power target as well as duration and rest period, and so on.
However, I recognise that not everyone wants to customise the EN plans so WKO4 may not be for you.

Paul Curtin

WKO seems pretty nice for deep analytics; they offer a 14-day trial so I may see what it provides

There's plenty of "actionable" data in TrainingPeaks for my needs

1) Trend analysis to identify gaps in training areas.  Here's a Dashboard example from earlier this year that shows a drop in the power curve (area under the red line); adding 2-minute interval sets balanced it out
              

2) Detailed analysis of individual workouts; mainly on long rides and runs; the Laps & Splits chart shows HR and power/speed correlation across the work sets.  So for example: on a 7 x 25' Z3 long bike, if power and HR are steady across all intervals then consider trying a higher power next time

3) Fatigue tracking through the ATL number.  I don't rely solely on it but it's one of 3 measures I use to know when to back it down for a day or two

4) Taper planning.  By loading all workouts leading up to a race, including expected intensity, you can chart what form (TSB) will look like on race day.  Most TP articles suggest a low positive TSB is good for a race, but I need TSB to be at least 20 for a key race.  If TSB starts to trend high too early during the taper I can adjust the workouts (typically by adding super-short speed bursts)

Gary Lewis

So, to summarize:  (My questions/responses are in italics)

Scott Dinhofer said:

I have found that TP has been one of the best monitoring tools there is. That said, what information it gives you is determined by what you put into it. Essentially your threshold values for S, B & R. 
these drive the outputs for the PMC which is probably the most valuable chart  - learn about it here and poke around there knowledge base for more articles. 

I have my information coming from my Garmin Fenix2 to GarminConnect.  Not sure how correctly to set up my zones in TP.  They don't use a vDot model for running.  I know my 5K test and HM test.  

I know what my last FTP test was.  Swimming, I am not too concerned with other than tracking fatigue into the chart.

Al Truscott said:

Agree with Scott about the value of PMC over the course of a season, and from season-to-season. I use it daily to make sure I am getting the work that I need, and to predict potential training overload.

The program rewards those who take the time too understand how to manipulate their data. If you're looking for a cookie cutter, you'll be frustrated. I have used it for things like: Pedaling efficiency (there is a whole "pack" of charts related to that.), tracking my weekly work in all three sports - IF, TSS, elevation gain, distance, speed, etc - through summaries I built myself, so I could see just what I wanted to; the Mean Maximal Power curve - essential to undersrtand "five hour power", as well as what type of intervals to work on; and some of the newer Coggin-generated metrics like Time To Exhaustion, Functional Reserve Capacity, and Stamina, which all provide some guidance on what type of training might be most useful.

I think 5-hour power may be the only other metric I may be interested in.  I  look at GarminConnect for my daily metrics.  I look at the PMC daily from an ATL/CTL prospective.  

I tried Golden Cheetah and didn't follow it at all.  On top of that the acronyms are different which confused me even more.

Paul Curtin said:

There's plenty of "actionable" data in TrainingPeaks for my needs

1) Trend analysis to identify gaps in training areas.  Here's a Dashboard example from earlier this year that shows a drop in the power curve (area under the red line); adding 2-minute interval sets balanced it out
              

If I understand this, you are saying that you didn't happen to do a lot of 2 minute intervals while training.  Do you think that had you not adjusted your training plan, your FTP would not have been the same?  Or that you would not perform as well on race day.

2) Detailed analysis of individual workouts; mainly on long rides and runs; the Laps & Splits chart shows HR and power/speed correlation across the work sets.  So for example: on a 7 x 25' Z3 long bike, if power and HR are steady across all intervals then consider trying a higher power next time

3) Fatigue tracking through the ATL number.  I don't rely solely on it but it's one of 3 measures I use to know when to back it down for a day or two

4) Taper planning.  By loading all workouts leading up to a race, including expected intensity, you can chart what form (TSB) will look like on race day.  Most TP articles suggest a low positive TSB is good for a race, but I need TSB to be at least 20 for a key race.  If TSB starts to trend high too early during the taper I can adjust the workouts (typically by adding super-short speed bursts)

This is where is seems to me to have the most value.  

I don't think I am intelligent/experienced enough to use WKO effectively at this point.

Does everyone look back to only the last 90 days on their IM build?  Or, does the Outseason and/or other training factor into your "build"?

What information do you get out it when comparing seasons?  Is this only possible when competing in the same races?  How do you overlay the two?

Paul Curtin

If I understand this, you are saying that you didn't happen to do a lot of 2 minute intervals while training.  Do you think that had you not adjusted your training plan, your FTP would not have been the same?  Or that you would not perform as well on race day.

Hi Gary - during the OutSeason we did 30" Z5 sets and 10' Z4 sets, so the gap should be expected.  But you asked if doing the 2-minute sets helped increase FTP.  I'm sure the answer is yes ... but I don't have any data points to prove it.  And looking back at TP workouts, I also did 3, 4, and 5-minute sets that were 110-120% of target FTP.  All that stuff must have helped since my FTP is higher than last year

"This is where is seems to me to have the most value"  Agree.  There's no better way to taper