4 Dimensional Power from The Sufferfest

Coach Patrick

Brenda just passed this on to me...super interesting. We don’t need 5-Second Power to be successful as Endurance Athletes...but the idea of a deeper Profile is certainly appealing.

curious to hear what you folks think!

https://thesufferfest.com/pages/learn-more-4dp

~ Coach P 

Al Truscott

In recent years, we haven't talked much if at all about attics and ceilings and roofs. To refresh for new members (there's probably a more concise description in the wiki, but I can't find it quickly)...think of your bike fitness as a single story house with a peaked roof. Your FTP is the ceiling of that first floor. As you grow in your cycling strength - as your FTP increases, you are raising that first floor ceiling. Eventually, you find that you have used up most of the available vertical space in the attic, and you need a higher roof to accommodate your improving FTP. How do you raise that roof/make a bigger attic - by working on energy systems which enable more work at higher wattages, things like 5 min and 1 min power. To add the 5 sec power to the analogy, well, maybe that's the steeple?

Anyway, looking back at my triathlon career I had built a multi-year "base" of long distance cycling (multi-day tours, including one summer crossing the USA), and bike commuting to work 20 miles daily. Then, I got involved in triathlons, including Xterra, and increased my mountain biking, which involved a lot of sheer anaerobic terror in short bursts trying to get up gnarly short steep climbs. I had my best IM cycling when I was mixing a lot of MTB-ing into my training.

Point being, I think that building strength for explosive climbing or sprinting - which is what the 5 sec and 1 minute (and all the spots in between) stuff is all about - will have a benefit even for 112 mile time trialists. We need look no further than the Tour de France, Giro, and Vuelta for confirmation. The winner of those events will almost always be the cyclist who can not only keep up with the strongest climbers, and even win summit finishes, but also translate that high end power into prolonged steady state effort.

After a seven year absence, I've gotten back into MTB this Fall, in CO and WA. After discounting strength loss d/t aging, I've found I still have some explosive pop in the legs after a year of mostly long (2+ hours) steady rides @ 0.72-0.82 IF. But I also sense that continuing to add that sort of work will pay dividends on the 70.3 and IM race courses. It's not about becoming able to simply go up hills harder - I believe in the rigid rule that "For every minute you go anaerobic on the bike (i.e., exceed about 0.9/0.95IF), you lose three minutes on the run". The ability to succeed at shorter, harder efforts is still adding to sustained efforts.

My conclusion: Our energy systems are not compartmentalized; every one of those zones from 5 seconds to 5 hours uses ALL of our neuromuscular energy systems, just to varying degrees at each gradation. Ignoring any of them will result in less overall speed at any step along that progression. The trick is to find a way to incorporate them into a training plan. Frequency, amount, timing, all relative to the ultimate race goal, are the variables which need to be fine-tuned.

And that's why we're paying you the Big Bucks, Patrick!

Tom Glynn

The whole thing is being slammed pretty badly online as a rip off of the Hunter Allen / Coggan model.  Of course, Sufferfest gives them no credit. After reading a bunch of the comments, I tend to agree.

Peter Noyes

@Al Truscott I think a lot of the Zwift training people have been doing correlate well to all of these different energy systems. On the Sunday rides we attack the KOM climbs and the sprints, which are efforts of 10-30s (sprints) or 2-8 minutes (KOMs). Until Zwift I would rarely exceed FTP on the trainer (and never more than 120%), but now suddenly I am pushing much harder on these shorter bursts. Hopefully I reap the benefits as others seem to have!

Peter Greagg

Agree with @Al Truscott's sentiments.
In a wko4 webinar, Tim Crusick pointed to the chart "FTP Contribution with TTE" that shows the contributions from both the anaerobic as well as the aerobic energy systems to power over any selected time range. The point he made was that even an IM bike split could benefit by a couple of watts from a well trained anaerobic energy system.

So my take is that, yes, anaerobic training on the bike can definitely benefit power over all time ranges, including an IM bike.

@Rich Stanbaugh thread https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/23738/stanbaughs-11-weeks-to-imlc#latest
is about his focus on developing his anaerobic system while preparing for his IM.

Also, I am doing a short OS where I am only doing 30 sec intervals on my bike and as I push these up in power over the weeks, my mFTP is rising in step with each increase. Note that the mFTP is only using these short bike sessions to model my FTP. I will write a post about my experience when I am done in about 4 weeks. It looks very encouraging.

Doron Preker

Old article about 5s, 1min, and FT from DR. ANDREW COGGAN - http://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/power-profiling/

Doron

tim cronk

Looks very interesting to me... Yes very similar to WKO4 and the new "Coggan" beliefs... But with any luck it will be much more user friendly... I find WKO4 to be like Windows or worse Racermate Software.... 

Andrew Coggan-  He is a very smart man...  I have his books ... He advanced the sport... BUT he is nothing but a narcissistic, whiny A$$, complaining Biatch.  Been following him for years on Slowtwitch , where he knows everything, everyone else knows nothing, he invented everything going back decades, he never gets the credit for anything, talks down to everyone... Reminds me of One of our politicians these days... I really can't stand to listen to the man even in writing anymore... Must be a real piece of work in person....

In a nutshell I'd be more than happy to start using analytical data from another source even if it is a rip off from some of his original work....In the past I have used Apollo from Dr. Skiba which I paid for , and the other free ware program (forget the name right now) both of which were challenged by Dr. Coggan...  So I look forward to seeing where this Sufferfest goes... Sometimes its not first to market that counts, technology is littered with companies smart enough to steal/or use someone else's discoveries much more successfully than the original inventor....