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Modifying The OS For OFs

Up until last year, I was able to pretty much follow the full EN workout schedule for OS and Race Prep. I did drop from advanced to intermediate 2-3 years ago, but last year, I noticed that fatigue which derailed a workout would set in after a couple of weeks doing, say, an FTP and a VO2 and several sets of fast run intervals per week.

Like many of you, I have read Friel's "Fast After 50" (actually, the blog posts he put up while he was writing the book), and noticed that while he emphasized the need to maintain intensity in OF training schedules, he seemed to suggest that lengthening the recovery time between hard workout days might be needed.

So this year, I am putting myself on a ten-day cycle in the OS, rather than a 7 day cycle, at least for the bike FTP and VO2 intervals. What I did was make a five week chart. I put in the first FTP workout, then counted off ten days (WKO day as day 1), and put in another one. Three days after the FTP WK, I put in a VO2, and again counted of 10 days for the next VO2. This will give me four FTP workouts and four VO2 workouts in the five week cycle. I did the same thing with ABP rides. I'm hoping this will provide more consistency then failing a workout and waiting a whole week to get that energy system again.

At least for the first month, I'm running every day, in the range of 30-40 minutes except for the "long run", which I do as written. the only intensity/speed faster than Z3  I'll be doing are strides, and a monthly 5K race. I'll be swimming two days a week, and three days a week, I'll hit the sauna after a run and then immediately do 30 minutes of weight training. I also try to get 25-30 minutes daily on stretching and body weight leg exercises to help strengthen knee and hip joints. The latter two - weights and stretching - I think are imperative for anyone over 40 who intends to engage in serious athletic competition. Both for injury prevention/management and maintaining muscle mass and flexibility.

As to what age to start considering modifications to the OS? I think that will be highly individual. Some folks might need to make changes as young as 48; I may be on the far end of the scale @ age 68.5. The point is, don't be afraid to lengthen the cycle to 8, 9, or 10 days if you feel that the hard stuff is beginning to pile up, and you find that you just can;t generate the mental or physical wherewithal to do things as often as you could a decade or two earlier.

I'll post a picture of my white board with the schedule I came up with...
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  • RSW=run-sauna-weights. Otherwise, daily runs are not listed. I swim because its a thing my wife and I do togethet.
  • @Al Truscott
    This is great. I am 65 (66 in January), and I use the Intermediate plans - due to slowing down, which I hope is age related.

    The last two years I have found myself in a big hole 3 to 4 weeks out from IMs and halves, and couldn't complete the long runs, in particular at the prescribed power/paces.
    you have got me thinking that I need to change my running in particular.

    As it happens, I am in a mini OS (8 weeks) before I start to build for a half. Patrick and I agreed on a run streak with no intensity, just run every day slower than zone 2.  I started with 20 km in the first week and every week just added 2 more run minutes. For the bike, for the first 4 weeks, I did 3 sessions a week of just 8 X 30 secs of VO2 max power (40secs recovery), after suitable Wu and cool down.

    What I have found is that mentally this is extremely easy, and physical I am recovering well. I tested my 1 and 2 minute power last week and am at all time highs.

    So I am sure you are on to something really good, for us OFs.

    As it happens, my next 4 weeks are very similar to yours, except I am using shorter bike intensity, rather than your longer recovery between sessions. It will be interesting to see how you go.

    FWIW, I will continue my run streak (I will test my run power next week, but that will be the only run intensity). Three bike sessions with the first 4 X 30 secs @ higher power than the VO2 max power in the first block, but with 12 minutes rest between efforts. The second, 3 X 4 min intervals around 110% of FTP, with 5 min recovery. And the third session is a sweet spot set of 3 X 13 mins @ 88% of FTP, with 2 min recoveries. 

    As as you can see, we are both taking a fairly similar approach. 
  • @Al Truscott  I like this a lot. Not unlike the 9 day cycle I utilized for UMFL after talking extensively about such a schedule with Dave Tallo... Its also something I was just kicking around in my thoughts recently... As you know after IMAZ and UMHC I plan to kick off a year of Ultra running... So while I wont be doing an OS per se , I do not want to drop the bike and swim entirely... At some point in the next month I may post some kind of schedule for input ... My priorities will be in this order , trail running , strength training , hiking, biking, swimming.... I am least worried about losing the swim since I will regain that fast with daily 30min OWS in NH next summer..... But I will say I do like the 7 day cycle as far as planning , even when having the flexibility of being retired like us, the 7 day cycle allows easier planning with spouse, weekly social events like lunch, etc... It also is important to get those long ride long run (or more race specific) wko's back on the weekends to get your body used to doing on those specificities on that rotation since that is when you will race them...
  • tim cronk said:
    ... But I will say I do like the 7 day cycle as far as planning ...important to get those long ride long run (or more race specific) wko's back on the weekends to get your body used to doing on those specificities on that rotation since that is when you will race them...
    Yeah, this hack is ONLY for OS. It's the density of intensity over 14 weeks in cycling that was getting to me. Whether I do anything similar in 2019 when I get back to IM, I'll have to wait and see. But I do think weekly long rides are critical. Long runs, not so much, since I tend to do those split now anyway.
  • ...The last two years I have found myself in a big hole 3 to 4 weeks out from IMs and halves, and couldn't complete the long runs, in particular at the prescribed power/paces.
    you have got me thinking that I need to change my running in particular.

    As it happens, I am in a mini OS (8 weeks) before I start to build for a half. Patrick and I agreed on a run streak with no intensity, just run every day slower than zone 2.  I started with 20 km in the first week and every week just added 2 more run minutes....
    What I have found is that mentally this is extremely easy, and physical I am recovering well. I tested my 1 and 2 minute power last week and am at all time highs....
    Peter, by necessity the past few years I have drastically cut back on speed intervals (track work) for running. I kept doing stupid things like: run a fast 10 immediately after a 2-3 week break from running, while skiing; try an interval session within one week of completing a hard IM; and other foolishness which kept hitting my upper hamstrings and finally a prolonged bout of gluteal pain probably due to stretched/pinched sciatic nerve. Since April, I've been running a lot, like 22-30 days a month, and added exercises and stretches focussed on the small muscles of my butt/pelvis. No further injuries, and I'm a bit scared to go back to anything faster than Zone 3 or half marathon pace. No injuries for 10.5 months now, and everything feels like its working just fine. If it ain't broke, don't fix it?
  • @Al Truscott I hear you.
    i have been doing high hamstring and glut/butt strengthen as well. A good exercise I have found is using a treadmill with 10% incline, and having it stopped. Pushing the belt for 30 secs, then 15 secs rest, rinse and repeat. You can feel it working!
  • Sounds like a plan Al. I'll be doing my usual easy running while doing the 100 day challenge (love those 2 mile runs). I'll be doing mostly Zwift rides (nice change) and will adjust the intensity according to how I feel. Agree with Tim that even though retired the weekly schedule is convenient, I guess we are just creatures of habit! I'm with you on the strength, stretching, etc. I think everyone needs it but for us it's MANDATORY! I think it's also the first thing we drop.
  • edited November 4, 2017 1:59PM
    Totally in sync with this idea Al, thanks.  Last year I did the prescribed bike workouts (VO2, FTP, ABP), but completely dropped run speed ... just couldn't absorb it

    @Al Truscott So where does skiing fit into your plan?  Clearly that has a huge impact on fatigue levels
  • @Peter Greagg  interesting exercise because I have wondered whether I irritate my hamstring tendon by trying to overrun the treadmill and over pawing back.
  • There is little doubt in my mind that the need for recovery following intensity increases earlier and with a steeper slope in bigger individuals. Since adolescence, I have been that guy who weighs 190lbs with <10% body fat. I'm what an old coach called a "Big Unit" and a "Fast Responder." I remain a SC specialist, and love the EN work. My FTP rises quickly, and I hang with training buddies who are much younger than I am.  I have also consistently underperformed at LC racing, in my opinion, due to the inability to maintain consistency and put in the required volume. A lot of that has had to do with the need to alter the EN plan a long time ago... but not being willing to do so. I'm aging-up to 60 this year and hope to join Al in Spain in 2019. I notice that there a number of "smaller athletes" on this thread. I also note that Joe Friel is a "smaller athlete." While I copied and plan to follow Al's schedule, I believe that the key for larger athletes is to polarize their training even further,  and treat Zn3 as a significant dose of intensity. Many of you have been extremely successful... and committed to the volume necessary to be so. I will need to change my attitude towards intensity, or it is very unlikely that I will be able to visit Spain. 

  • So where does skiing fit into your plan?  Clearly that has a huge impact on fatigue levels
    I've been a skier all my life, long before I was ever a triathlete or runner. While I've never done a ski race, ever, I do think of myself as a better skier than triathlete. I'm lucky that my parents retired in Snowmass, just when it was first built. My sister and I inherited their property, and now that I'm retired, that's where I ski. There was a time 5-10 years ago when I was so heavily committed to Ironman racing that I short-changed my skiing, in order to maintain year-round consistency in training. I've since resolved to do what I love, which means I'm taking six weeks out of the OS, in two week chunks, Dec thru early March. A few years ago, I bought a trainer to leave there, but have never used it. I view the skiing I do (bumps, powder, trees, not really a groomed run cruiser kinda guy) as giving me something like VO2 max and short FTP intervals, while maintaining leg and core strength. I've done only very occasional running during those ski weeks; this year, I'll be 90+ days into a running streak, and if there is little to no snow on the road outside my house, I may try daily 2-2.5 mile runs. But, I've learned I can't really mix skiing the way I do it with s/b/r training, the way I do them.

    Not only does my Garmin Fenix have ski modes built in, it can translate the work I do (especially if I wear an HR monitor) into a TSS, so I don't have to lose out on my CTL in the PMC.
  • There is little doubt in my mind that the need for recovery following intensity increases earlier and with a steeper slope in bigger individuals.... I believe that the key for larger athletes is to polarize their training even further,  and treat Zn3 as a significant dose of intensity. ...
    Yup. For all my life before 50, I wanted to be a halfback - 5'10", 200#. All the hours in the weight room, and I never got bigger than 154#. Now I count myself very lucky to have to body type I have. I can;t imagine how my knees, hips and ankles would fare if I applied 30% more weight to them on each of the 50,000 strides I would take in a marathon...shoes, running style, and training needs will be different for us.
  • edited November 25, 2017 2:56PM
    As it happens, my next 4 weeks are very similar to yours, except I am using shorter bike intensity, rather than your longer recovery between sessions. 
    My approach during the initial weeks of DOS. The daily running will really rough me up once I add bike intensity. I am focusing on consistency (hence sticking to a 7 day schedule) early... adjusting to limit the actual total time at intensity.  I respond very well to VO2 max work, so I'm sticking to 5x 1:1 for the first month, and I love my 4 x 8' at FTP session. The weekend Zwift sessions will require a dedicated effort to "do the right thing." Probably really need to avoid them for a while, :smile: I've got plenty of OS time with a 70.3 in late June. Once I get deeper into the DOS, I may try increasing total time at intensity, and switch to 10 day schedule. If all goes well, I may hop back in with standard advanced FOS after recovery from the Tour of Sufferlandria (limited to .8 FTP settings). My FTP will plateau pretty quickly, and the OS intensity will mostly be allowing me to build aerobic fitness without volume. Frankly, for a geezer, my FTP is NOT my limiter. Muscular endurance has Zwift written all over it! On nice days, I'll get outside and focus on some longer easy rides to prepare for the Easter Hill Country Tour (Bike Camp). By then I'll have a better idea of how I might need to tweek the HIM plan. The 10 day micro cycle seems like a perfect solution as volume increases.
  • @Al Truscott - good stuff in this thread. I hope I don't have to make these adjustments until I retire (66.5) but I'm glad you are laying the groundwork.  Meanwhile, I accelerated my Run gait/functional strength analysis to mid-Oct.  Bottomline was that I'm pretty inflexible and my left leg is tighter/weaker than the right one.  I started the OS yesterday and will be incorporating the additional homework assigned to me by the DPT who did the analysis.
  • Having gone through 4 weeks of the OS now, I've learned that for me at least, a cycle of 8-9 days will probably work best for cycling. Meaning in every 8-9 day period, I would do 1 VO2 session, one FTP session, and 1 ABP session. In practical terms, since I want to do Saturday EN Zwift rides, I may occasionally turn that ride into an ABP/FTP combo.

    Coach P suggests I consider doing 4 week blocks exclusively of either FTP or VO2 intervals. These first five weeks, I've done twice as much VO2work as FTP, so I think I will emphasize FTP sessions between Dec17 & Jan 17, my next OS block after two weeks (hopefully, if it snows) skiing. That might mean 6 FTP workouts of 50-90' during those 4.5 weeks, along with Saturday EN Zwift sessions, and considering 1-2 VO2 sessions if I'm not too fatigued.

    For the running, I've been doing one "long" run of 70 minutes every two weeks, with 5-8 km of running all other days, is what I;ve been able to do. The only really fast stuff I did was mixing in 8-10 30s strides about 3 times (once a week), and an all-out 5k Turkey Trot. Unless I decide to cut back on running every day, I think any more "quality" running is not practical.

    Next block, after successfully running hard with no sunsequent pain or injury, and coming to the emd of 100 runs in 100 days, I'll see if I can follow the OS running schedule as written for weeks 6-10.

    Also, the thrice weekly 30 minute weight sessions, which I had been lax on the previous 3-4 years, have certainly helped, both with recovery from nagging injuries, and keeping my running and cycling from slowing down too drastically.

    The whole idea, of course, is to end up in March with as high an FTP as possible, no loss of running speed, and no new injuries, 
  • I LOVE the white board!  Thanks for sharing useful information!
  • Thanks for this thread, @Al Truscott. I’m 58 years old, and have always struggled with run durability in particular. I have the Friel book, and have read others who recommend HIIT training for OFs to maintain muscle mass and strength. I’m still working full-time, so as @tim cronk noted, the 7-day schedule works better for planning, in particular the long bikes/runs that have to happen on the weekends. I tried the TrainerRoad workout plans for a couple of years, and found that I could not maintain the threshold/VO2 frequency of the plans. Basically, I’ve adopted an unscientific just-listen-to-my-body method of determining when I’m ready for a hard workout, but I think I’m going to get more precise about timing with the harder workouts, so I can have some confidence in the training arc. @Coach Patrick has me in the RDP—plus I’m doing a run streak—to make me more injury-proof when the volume ramps up (avg 3 mi/day). He’s also recommending the run focus OS plan, and has me in the beginner 12 wk IM plan. I’ve always done an intermediate plan—whichever coach I’ve followed—but I think the beginner plan is a good idea in terms of volume and recovery. I can always do more if I’m rested enough. Keep sharing everyone, I’m getting a lot of good ideas from reading what you are doing.
  • edited December 3, 2017 3:10PM
    I’m with you @Alicia Chase: Without warning, work got in the way of my plans last week, and weekends will always offer me the best opportunity to rack up some TSS. A previous coach told me that I needed to get those long runs in to “knock the smart ass out of my bike legs.” I am finding that frequent shorter, TRP runs work too! While Friel recommended HIT and strength training programs are scientifically sound, the EN OS schedules include more frequent sessions than does Friel. The working OF is going to have to be even more cautious. The great thing about RDP (and Run Focus OS) is that it will definately reduce the tendency for me to overwork on the bike. OF’s that have a few years of experience can gain back most of their FTP relatively quickly once they add the volume of a Race Specific Plan. For me, I need to remind myself that OS is for maintaining bike fitness and building run durability. I think that you are right about using the Beginner Race Specific Plans. With many years of IM distance experience, I am glad that Coach P changed the name to Level 1. As noted above, I am not of the same body type as @Al Truscott or @tim cronk. That is an important consideration in selecting, and modifying a training plan. 
  • @John Culberson I like that “bike legs” quote. Lots of conventional wisdom out there that says you can maintain run fitness on the bike, but my personal experience has been that I need to subject my legs to the pounding (within reason), in order to be durable enough to not get injured. I have an old hip injury—labral tear repair and ablation—and I do have to be careful to keep the aggravation to a minimum. Combine that with a real preference to bike, and I would end up with a running injury every late spring/early summer. So, I’m going to stick with the run focus and hope that the bike will take care of itself. I’m also currently doing a weekly Pilates class and a weekly HIIT strength class. It does lump 2 hrs of strength into only 2 sessions, which isn’t ideal, but I will actually GO and DO the classes, instead of talking about doing more shorter sessions at home...and then never doing them. I have managed to commit to and maintain a daily 20 min foam roller/massage stick/golf ball self-care session, for about the past 2 mos, and I’m seeing a definite postive benefit.
  • Did a big Zwift week last week.  2 races, 2 easy days, and then a big ABP sunday ride.  I am very confident I need to take it easy this week.  I am happy I realized it but now need to execute appropriately.  I'll keep my RDP streak going with 30-35 min daily runs at TRP or slower and try to find an easy ride as recovery as I feel up to it.  If I feel good, I might ride Sunday ABP.
  • Did a big Zwift week last week.  2 races, 2 easy days, and then a big ABP sunday ride.  I am very confident I need to take it easy this week.  I am happy I realized it but now need to execute appropriately.  I'll keep my RDP streak going with 30-35 min daily runs at TRP or slower and try to find an easy ride as recovery as I feel up to it.  If I feel good, I might ride Sunday ABP.
    The hardest workouts for me are the days when I enforce an off or reduced work day - drives me nuts! We've got to invent some way of rewarding ourselves in the training diary for being smart with recovery.

    And of course, you are too "young" to need any routine modifying to the schedule. Just rare reduced or off days when the signs tell you it's necessary.
  • I’ve been Zwifting since they were in beta. I did Trainer Road for a couple of years because I liked the more structured nature of the workouts. But I migrated back to Zwift when they added the ability to create workouts, because it’s just more engaging and motivating. But...you’ve got to be careful not to blow your weekly training bankroll on one or two Zwift rides. It’s easy to get caught up and forget about your downstream workouts.
  • Time for an update: What I Really Did, compared to What I Planned...Going to a longer "week" does not seem to work for me. What I've actually done was:
    • Heavy Zwifting over the holidays - like 25 rides between Dec 20 and Jan 17. Some were group rides, some were group workouts, some were EN workouts, some were races, and some were weekend EN ABP rides. Never went  out for a "recovery ride" by myself, always working.
    • Since my return from latest ski trip, I've "only" done 3-4 Zwifts a week, two races/workouts, and 1-2 weekend ABP rides.
    • I finished a 95 day run streak on Dec 6, skied for a week, came back and ran 22 out of the next 30 days. Shut down again for skiing, and returned to 12/14 days of running. No real speed work except for strides and a 5K race.
    • Swam 2-3 x a week, lifted weights 2-3 times a week when available.
    • I found that using travel days as rest days worked OK.
    My conclusion so far:
    • I can handle frequent doses of short (1-2 hour) intense (FTP >> VO2) cycling efforts without downstream consequence.
    • As long as I avoid doing run interval work, I can keep up a steady 25 mph on 6/7 days with neither fatigue nor injury risk
    • Sprinkling in total days off once every week or two seems to do the trick as far as facilitating consistency.
    • My swimming sucks; it seems like every week I get slower

  • @Al Truscott: Now that I’m swimming a few days/week with a former D1 swimmer, (who I have to chase down after every open wall turn), I was feeling so fit that I signed up for an 8 miler three weeks out of Run Jail and was able to negative split at HIM+ pace. Followed that with a 3K straight pool swim and Zwifted 40K in Watopia at in-season power for 40K the next day. Now I’m back in Run Jail. I just spent an hour carefully analyzing my run ramps in TP. I thought older meant wiser. The solution is obvious, of course, ease back to running with a disciplined course of action and really get serious about strength, flexibility, and recovery enhancement behavior... I’m talking about ego reduction to match my speed reduction.
  • @Al Truscott: ...The solution is obvious, of course, ease back to running with a disciplined course of action and really get serious about strength, flexibility, and recovery enhancement behavior... I’m talking about ego reduction to match my speed reduction.
    Yeah...From 2014 thru 2016 I kept falling in the same trap. It's so hard to block out how much I like to run fast, or lift heavier and heavier weights, or swim longer and longer sessions...all of ehich lead to various joint, tendon, muscle & nerve damage. At least cycling doesnt beat me up yet (except when I fall MTB'ing)
  • edited February 18, 2018 5:26PM
    @Al Truscott: I’ve been “recovering” since ITU in Sept. 2016. The race was excellent... post-race transition was not. Hope to turn it around before it becomes 3 years! I recall a thread regarding the need for OF’s to ease back into training with a slower ramp than during their younger days. My longstanding pattern of 2-3 big days followed by 4-5 easy/off days just doesn’t fit that model. This gives my ego control over a well-rested and powerful machine with a bunch of loose bolts holding it together ;-)

    I just hopped off my bike after a 20min ride at IF .80. It was healthy and it felt good. Onward.
  • I’m on vacation this week, and have had some time to think about some things re: training as an OF. Yes, we’re all an experiment of one, but wondering what others are finding. Just a couple of general observations for context—I’m 58 years old, a small and lean female (5’6”, 118-120 lbs). Muscular strength is a limiter, endurance is a strength. I did a Zwift wko yesterday, a 30 min wko with 2x1 min at 150%, and 3x10s at 300%. The first one minute interval came after a 5 min warm up. So, first observation—5 min isn’t even close to being a warm up for me, I prob need a min of 15-20 min. Also, anything over 130% of FTP is currently out of my reach. This is the first year that I’ve really worked hard at the VO2 intervals. They are very hard for me, but I’m starting to see some improvement. Typically, with a good warmup, my IF per interval ranges from 1.2 to 1.25. After this 30 min Zwift wko, I added another 30 min with 9x1min VO2 intervals, targeting 120%, and saw some 1.26-1.29 efforts. This leads me to conclude that: 1. My measured FTP is correct. 2. Chasing 20 min FTP is prob not going to raise my FTP, but instead, I need to raise my VO2 max as much as I can in order to raise my FTP, and 3. Moving that bottom number in my FTP range to the right and increasing my “x” hour power should be my focus. While I’ve seen little movement in the FTP range, I’ve increased my 5 sec, 1 min, 5 min, and 1 and 2 hour power. It will be interesting to see how things play out as time goes on.
  • FTP is your one hour power. Am I misunderstanding something?


    Sent from my iPhone
  • edited February 22, 2018 4:45PM
    No, sorry @Robert Sabo I should have said 2 and 3 hr power, eventually building up to 5 hour power for an Ironman bike leg.
  • @Robert Sabo and @Alicia Chase - how exactly do you test for your 5 hour power?  I assume that is just whatever average power you produce on a 5 hour ride?  


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