Help An Old Fat Guy Shed Some Pounds!
Background: A few months back I was home alone and I had chest pains. I had never experienced them before. I have hereditary hypertension (have tried everything to fix it with no luck) and have family members who have had strokes, heart attacks, etc. I immediately went to the ER and now have done all the testing and I am FINE! I jokingly attribute my chest pain to having a teenager. 
So....with that eye opener, I have decided to get my health/fitness back.
Recent: I am 7 weeks back on a training regimen. Up to 5 mile runs with the RDP group, spinning on Kickr/Zwift 3x per week and doing some free weight work. All targeting the fat-burning. Every workout targets 130 BPM. No shenanigans of 1x intervals, etc. Just steady workouts. Will join JOS as well.
I am 23 pounds heavier than my 2011 IMAZ and ultra-running race weight. The RDP/MAF work has shed 4 or 5 pounds so far. But my diet SUCKS!
Now: I have been reading about the epic body comp adventures of @John Withrow et al and I have to say I am overwhelmed. Core Diet, Paleo, HFLC...oy vey! Where to begin? I am not sure I am ready to go ALL IN on HFLC diet, but I do understand the benefits.
I have tried to change my diet but I keep falling back into my old habits. But now I think I am ready.
I am looking for some help with a starting point for a diet change. Nothing type-A-ish. Needs to be sensible and start slowly.
Any assistance is appreciated.
Thanks.
~ Stark
So....with that eye opener, I have decided to get my health/fitness back.Recent: I am 7 weeks back on a training regimen. Up to 5 mile runs with the RDP group, spinning on Kickr/Zwift 3x per week and doing some free weight work. All targeting the fat-burning. Every workout targets 130 BPM. No shenanigans of 1x intervals, etc. Just steady workouts. Will join JOS as well.
I am 23 pounds heavier than my 2011 IMAZ and ultra-running race weight. The RDP/MAF work has shed 4 or 5 pounds so far. But my diet SUCKS!
Now: I have been reading about the epic body comp adventures of @John Withrow et al and I have to say I am overwhelmed. Core Diet, Paleo, HFLC...oy vey! Where to begin? I am not sure I am ready to go ALL IN on HFLC diet, but I do understand the benefits.
I have tried to change my diet but I keep falling back into my old habits. But now I think I am ready.
I am looking for some help with a starting point for a diet change. Nothing type-A-ish. Needs to be sensible and start slowly.
Any assistance is appreciated.
Thanks.
~ Stark
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But to your question, I'd try this. Eat whole foods. Cut out the crap. Yep. All the so called healthy crap we love to eat. I happen to LOVE food, so I am a bit of an adventurous eater. I've fallen in love with a heck of a lot of veggies and fruit. So start there. Eat more of that. Lean meats and fish, and some dairy and eggs. And less of stuff that comes in a package. You don't have to give it all up at once, cause that would be really difficult if you aren't all in. I usually find when I am eating crappy food, I crave crappy food and when I eat whole foods, I crave more whole foods. It takes some time, but it does happen.
Usually when I am dieting (in any way shape or form...money, food, purchasing tri toys) I really fixate on what I can't have. I've learned to reframe it to more what I CAN have. Less stress about financials, more veggies and nutrients, more room in my closet/garage.
Hope something up there ^ clicks! Good luck!
I've struggled with the weight now for years. When I'm racing/training I lose weight. I clean some things up lose 30-40 lbs do an IM then take 3,4 or 6 months off rinse repeat.
For me I have all kinds of bad eating habits, pop, chips, chocolate, and just eating too much at each meal. For me it starts with tracking the food for a week then you see what all the bad food you are eating. I now know how to do this without trakingbut it's still a good first step, self shaming to make your self realize, hey I just ate 4000 calories today and only did a 2 hour workout, not good.
I have two methods I use, first the last supper where I take a weekend to eat what I want they go on the core diet plan that I used several years ago. This is very regimented, counting calories and eating 6 meals with very few cheats. Method two is where I cut back on bad stuff in moderation I think this is more what you are looking for.
For me this goes back to that 1 week tracking which creates a list of what I can cut back on. For me this is pop, initially this is getting consumption down to 1 can/day. Then I substitute tea for the caffeine and eventually even remove the tea in a week or two. During this 1st week or two I allow myself to eat a little more at meals and have some healthier snacks in between. I also have some small chocolates around to help with the sugar cravings, max 4 typically in the evening. So if you have one or a couple big offenders in you diet this becomes easier to manage, reduce and then cut out. You may also see some patterns you have through tracking your food.
A couple weeks further in the process I cut out pop completely and or move on to another big offender or reduce a couple smaller ones. Once I seem to get my body turned around then the cravings are much less. During this time have food you like to eat available. I like bananas, nuts (watch the calories here) and meals at supper like spaghetti or even a couple slices of pizza once a week. Later when I move to a core diet plan this will be chicken, fish, turkey chili etc.
One other big thing for me early on is having the meals planned and even better if you can have them ready. Cook 2 or 3 meals on Sunday then when you are hungry you have good (better) food options. Early on in this process if I'm hungry I'm more likely to stray to anything and everything.
Finally managing other people in the household can be a challenge. I do a lot of the cooking so I have more opportunity to ensure that I get what I want/need, but after 1 or 2 weeks on a food plan my wife wants variety so I need to also cook options for her. I also need to let my wife know to now buy me treats, ice cream or anything. If she wants it fine but no extras for me.
Finally in my experience I've thought I was ready on several occasions, it's tough and I too fall back in to old habits thus sometimes my method 1 where you dive it is better but I'll leave that up to you.
Gordon
Second. Remove the offending crap from your house. You can't eat whats not there.
Third. Meal prep. I make (my wife actually) five salads for the week on Sunday. I find I don't eat junk take out lunches at work when I don't have to think about where lunch is coming from. Its convenient and I have it with me.
I am perpetually challenged with body composition.
What works for me is:
First — you need to play a long game. Give yourself plenty of time to get to where you want to go. For me, it is 25 weeks until IM Australia. So I am thinking of 600 gms a week. I know I can train and lose 900 - 1000 gms a week, but the metal side gets hard after a couple of weeks. So I stick to my 600 gms weight loss target.
Second — to be able to consistently lose, you need to know how much food you can eat and be in weight balance, without exercise. As mentioned, an App can be very helpful. I did some work with a sports dietitian so I know what, and how much, I can eat and be in balance (or not).
Third — I fuel up before a wko of more than an hour (think a gel 30 mins before, then another gel during wu), fuel during wkos of more than 2 hours, and a recovery shake (300 cals) afterwards. Now because I do bike and run first thing, I am already in deficit after the wko and can make decisions about breakfast (often I skip it), and then on to normal lunch and dinner that are consistent with a weight loss of 600 gms a week. Now, in the event that I overachieve my weight loss for the week, I still aim for a 600 gms weight loss the following week.
Good luck!
@Remesh2000 & @Gordon Cherwoniak - get serious about this (as I must do) and start with the holiday weight loss challenge - TOMORROW.. https://goo.gl/nXgZCH
here's an old thread where a bunch of us shared ideas on weight loss in the Outseason started by Matt Aronson a few years ago - revive it!
https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/13696/how-are-we-going-to-hold-ourselves-accountable-for-achieving-racing-weight/p1
My 2cents.
Be kind to yourself, the planet, and animals by going plant based.
Get off the "DIET" rollercoaster. Change your relationship with food. Make it a lifestyle change. There is no magic bullet, there are junk food vegans who are unhealthy and fat. Discipline is still required. But you can educate yourself and make better decisions.
Recommended Documentaries on Netflix
Forks over Knives
Veducated
What the Health
Food Choices
Fat Sick and Nearly Dead
Recommended Books on Amazon
How not to die.
Forks over Knives
China Study
just to name a few but I like Cambell, Esselstyn, Barnard, Gregor, Pollan
One of Pollans quotes... Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.
another - dont eat anything your grandmother wouldnt recognize as food
another- dont eat anything incapable of rotting
I just watched the Vietnam Special on PBS... Wow great BTW... Its really amazing that there is not one FAT person in all of the footage , yes there is plenty non military footage and NO ONE WAS FAT in the 60's-70's.... Today I sat at a table outside of a Vegan restaurant for lunch, was interesting to observe the body types going into the Greek Restaurant on one side, and the Pizza Restaurant on the other side compared to the body types in and out of the Vegan Restaurant....
First off ... health. With your history I hope you get a lipid panel that includes LDL particle size and number. Just knowing the LDL levels is not enough. If you can get some labs done it may motivate you to approach this as "I need to do this for my health". Approach this as a way of eating once and for all the Mr Starkles way. There is no one way of loosing weight. At the end of the day the law of thermodynamics rules. A calorie deficit has to be made. This can be accomplished by managing blood sugar so you don't have cravings and end up indulging in junk and drive up calories. How you manage blood sugar is based on what style of eating you do day in and day out. You're looking for the Mr Starkles way.
You said you are looking for a starting point.
1. Get the tempting foods out of the house. This could be hard with a teenager around. When a craving comes on and the junk is not available you can't eat what's not there.
2. Blood sugar management is the biggest thing you can do to get this going. Do this - stock up on the protein foods you like. Shop for veggies and fruit three times a week. FIBER! Do not let yourself get hungry. Hydrate.
3. Make a list of what the Mr. Starkles diet will look like. When you own it then it's yours to live out.
4. Sleep. Solid sleep is necessary for resetting hormones.
5. 90/10 rule. Be accountable 90% of the time. It helps to have a support system.
You can do this.
However, the world prefers alternative facts, we wanna believe in unicorns and magic bullets as we purchase our way through the brainwashed marketing....
Just A couple thoughts to consider.
ALL ANIMAL PRODUCTS- contain ZERO FIBER
ALL PLANTS- contain ZERO CHOLESTEROL
Higher fats lower carbs has worked very well for me in terms of body composition, energy levels, and general sense of well being.
Plus my blood sugars and lipid profile have never been better (blood sugars tended to run high -almost 'pre-diabetes' before starting this diet 18 months ago).
There are definitely social and ethical considerations and a certain amount of tribalism that may lead people to choose plant vs meat diets but there is no health reason not to choose a meat-based diet. Dietary cholesterol does not lead to health problems, that is a myth. Processed foods and sugars do lead to health problems and should be avoided by everybody, all the time except when racing (if you want to go fast).
I think a simple way to get started on a healthy diet is to read Matt Fitzgerald's book 'racing weight'. there is a free app for iphone that goes with the book and is a simple way to score food/intake without having to weigh stuff and count calories ( although I tend to do that as I get into race prep phase now).
Start by just cutting processed food (see Matt Fitzgerald for examples of processed foods- you would be surprised) and sugar and you will see results whether you are plant-based or carnivorous. The rest is minutiae.
The whole comment by @Sheila Leard was thoughtful and balanced.
I've done/tried everything under the sun and being a former competitive wrestler with obese parents, my weight swings widely depending on whether or not my discipline switch is turned "on" or "off". I am NOT able to do anything in my life in moderation, and what I eat is no exception. What works best for me is setting my rules and simply rote following of them. That way I don't have to think or use willpower when facing a decision of what to eat in the moment, I simply follow my rules (when I'm "on" anyways).
I think the basic philosophy should be "Eat Real Food" and "No Recreational Sugar". Those two can be effective for anyone in the world regardless of the style of the "what type of real food" (i.e. Vegan, HFLC, vegetarian, paleo, etc. etc. etc...). For me personally, after following those first two base rules, the style that has worked best for me is: higher fat, lower carb, gluten-lite (which forces me to not eat processed foods). This approach allows me to eat constantly and never be hungry, but also not have the blood sugar swings or sweets cravings. My staples are avocados, nuts, coconut oils, olive oils, grassfed butter, eggs, bacon, wild caught fish, lots and lots of vegetables, bacon, fruits, cheeses, more vegetables, and more bacon. My lipid panel has never been better under that type of diet. As soon as I go off of that and start eating breads and sugars, my triglycerides go through the roof.
Part of this up/down relationship with food is not healthy and something to be concerned about for all of us going forward.
"A way of life" is different from a "Diet" and much easier to control even with an addictive personality.... When I first drifted towards Veganism I was a rock climber , as with triathlon I was focussed with my addictive personality... I became quite good quite fast peaking at the 5-13a/b redpoint ascents. A redpoint is climbing from the bottom to the top with no falls, some of my redpoints took 6 months and 30 or more attempts to give you an idea of the focussed determination... Rock climbing requires knowledge, co-ordination skills and like triathlon a huge strength to weight ratio ... So its obvious that diet comes into play (there is a lot of eating disorders in climbing due to this specially among the young competitors very similar to gymnastics etc)... Research brought me to PALEO which I read about, and said this is EXTREME... So I thought what could be the opposite extreme to paleo and it was Vegan... So I read Brendan Brazier THRIVE which to me made so much more sense... I did not stop there but read Paleo stuff and more Vegan stuff... You know MY outcome... I really never set out to go in that direction it just happened... I dont preach or sell my choices, "DIET" is like religion and politics...
I will agree to disagree which is why I love EN we are allowed to do this here... It is of my opinion that all animal products are bad for your health....There is nothing in animal products that you cant get in plants... However there lots of things missing in animal products that can only be found in plants. Environmental and Ethical reasons are icing on the Vegan Cake...
It seems that so many people are in a perpetual state of constantly trying to lose weight... How many Vegans are in the Weight Loss Challenge?
To an old quote, "I can feel a lot of love in the room tonight".
John:
Was in exactly your position in July. I broke down and spent the $65 for menus from Core Diet, working with Anne Rollins. I was up to 272 as of August 1. Thursday 11/2 before going to IM Fla. I was 235.6. Frankly I didn't feel any faster especially, but my endurance was markedly different. I got DQd at mile 75 of the bike because of a horrible swim and failing to meet the 81 mile cutoff time, but I felt the best after 75 miles that I ever had. I highly recommend this process if the sticker price isn't too shocking. Anne is great to work with as well. She designed my menu for the week around my training schedule for the week telling my not only what to eat, but when to eat it.
Good luck on the journey.
Sorry for the radio silence. I have been doing A LOT of thinking the past couple of weeks and also did a 23 day run streak in the RDP group. I have halted the streak now as I needed some rest days. I can say I am down my first 7 pounds.
My #1 goal is body comp changes. Period. RDP seems to be the best ROI towards that goal. Run fitness is a bonus.
Also, I am a Type-A personality like most of you and usually dive into things 1000%. But over time my enthusiasm wanes. Ask @Tom Glynn how many IM's we were going to race together and then bailed.
So...... here is my plan:
The overall message from you all was to eat whole foods/healthy proteins. So after some research I am going start simply with the Whole 30 program. 30 days of eating whole foods. No cheats. I started this past week. Then right after January 1 I will reevaluate and look at maybe making some additional changes. Not sure I wanna go vegan. But cutting back my beef intake is probably a good idea. We shall see.
Lastly, I am also hacking the RDP Block 1 to get me ramping towards JOS.
Thanks again for all of your help! Will keep ya posted on my progress.
~ Stark
P.S. @John Withrow - I am right there with you regarding bacon.
What you're doing is quite normal. I see this with my clients all the time (I'm a Dietitian) .... look at the model below. Stages of Change was developed by James Prochaska PhD from the Univ. of Rhode Island. When a person is looking at making changes in their life it's normal to follow this pattern.
Click on the Url below and you will see that that you fall into Preparation/Action.
There is nothing wrong with following the Whole 30 Day Program other than timing and coming into the Holidays. But, it may make you feel virtuous because you will need to say no to Holiday Foods.
The critical part is what you do at the end of the 30 days. This is where a support system is needed. Do you have family, friends (TEAM EN) that can keep you moving into solid Action? The longer you stay in Action the less relapse that you have to deal with. Once in the Action phase your support needs to "catch" you as you waffle back into behaviors that are destructive to your goals.
The reason why diets work for so many people is because it takes the thinking out. You really are not owning your eating ... the diet is. Black and white personalities like diets. Diets have a start and an end. Once you start feeling healthy the goal is to say "I feel too good to go back to the way I ate." You don't end feeling healthy.
Use the Whole 30 to find out what foods could be bothering you. At the end watch how you behave. Don't go on a binge. Reintroduce foods one at a time for 3 days each.
Get your labs done to add to why you need to stay in action ... once and for all!
Keep creating the Stark Diet. Maybe you could call it "Living the Stark Way".
https://www.prochange.com/transtheoretical-model-of-behavior-change
http://stepupprogram.org/docs/handouts/STEPUP_Stages_of_Change.pdf
John - when we had lunch we talked about a lot of things including food! I love the 30 day idea. I'd do that myself, but I have a moderated food week planned for xmas when I am away with my kids. Not going totally off the reservation, but thinking less about what I eat at meal time, still staying away from snacks.
I've known you a long time, we've both gone up and down with weight. One thing I know for all of us is that goals help accomplish that. you love MTB, pick a MTB event 6-8 months out and the weight you want to be for that. I find the Hoff Holiday weight loss challenge helps with a short term 7-15 lb fix over 7 weeks. Running for me IS the single biggest contributor, and I am in run jail right now! Interject with HARD, really HARD bike work, Zwift races, intervals, etc. We all know when you go exploring on an MTB, you don't ride those long intervals. Hard daily biking CAN be as effective as running.
longer term gains have to be made by "changing your relationship with food." A great quote I heard from a guy who lost 85lbs and wasn't a triathlete. One thing I do now is plan for my big meals. I am doing a client lunch tomorrow and a dinner at an unknown restaurant same night. THe rest of the day, I will eat nothing. I picked the lunch restaurant, hi quality seafood place, that i should be able to get a salad or a piece of grilled Salmon at. Point is that I plan for the big meals, and when possible, I pick the restaurants based on healthy options. Farm to table food, and a place where the Chef will really do it clean.
For me the biggest disappointment was sitting with Al & Tim in Snowmass this past September and not being at the race weight i wanted to be at. My personal goal this year is "look" fit, that means getting super lean. I've seen (in person) what Tim, @Paul Curtin and @Coach Patrick look look like when they are at race weight. What that means on veins, etc. I know I am going to look like THAT this summer. My race performance will increase with it (if that's what you are after)
btw, sitting with Paul at Breakfast the day AFTER IMKY was a good lesson in how to order food, even an omelette.
On your diet statements. I am not a vegan, never will be. That said, I often say that I eat with a "vegan influence." I barely ever have red meat. That's a real special treat and usually less than 1x per month. Most of the time I have a leaner variation of what you saw me eat at lunch. A big ass salad with Grilled Salmon (I order with no added salt, and per my Paul Curtin Lesson, I ask if it's grilled with butter or oil, and ask for cooking spray), I also have salads with plain grilled chicken.
With all of that said, after watching @Rob Mohr - run away from the field in Cozumel last week, I may have to seriously consider becoming almost completely vegan
@tim cronk @Scott Dinhofer
More on the diet wars. I keep going back to the message FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU ... own it and believe it.
http://www.nourishbalancethrive.com/blog/2017/03/12/ironman-guide-ketosis/
I did watch the CORE diet webinar recently and it did seem to revolve around Glycemic timing of when to eat certain types of foods to not spike blood sugar.
@Sheila Leard I agree with the calorie In/Out, but seems like I have become resistant to losing fat. It is coming sooooo slow. Does InsideTracker help determine a direction on what to do next to shed the lbs or do you have other suggestions?
Bob Seebohar, RD, is a Colleague and has great guidance on how to periodize carbs. I was part of his Level Two Metabolic Efficiency Specialists for 3 years. The goal is to get you in a calorie deficit without knowing it. No hunger allowed.
The testing I would advise is if you can find one in your area is Metabolic Efficiency test on a bike or treadmill. Where do you live? I can help you find a qualified person that does this test. The test will show you how many fat and carbs you burn at various intensities. It's helpful because it will show you what intensity you should be working out at to improve fat burning when exercising. This alone won't improve body comp, learning to periodize carbs around training is key. High intensity training will need some carb fueling. Low intensity days - back off on carbs and focus on protein ... 2gm/kg body weight and fiber ... veggies!
Inside tracker is a good resource, however, many of the bio-markers can be done with an open minded MD. Depending on your medical history there are some labs I would recommend for you to get done to look at how much inflammation you might have going on which can dampen weight loss. This probably isn't the forum to put that in. I'd be glad to PM you. I respect you so much for owning this and trying to figure it out.
This is beautifully written ( two years ago) by a respected Exercise Physiologist. Nice summary of the carb debate.
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/food-fight-high-carb-or-high-fat-diet-for-endurance-athletes/