Race Wheel Issues

Spokane_Al

Perhaps I should have asked the question prior to purchasing a set of Zipp 808 clinchers but did not so I guess I should ask it now.  And in all honesty, I had not even considered this issue before I made my purchase.

I am fairly proficient at changing tires and can complete the process pretty quickly, especially if I can find a soft shady spot to complete the task.  However, I am finding it virtually impossible to remove my tires from my 808 clinchers.  Twice now I have stopped and taken the wheel and tire to my LBS to finish the task.  I enjoy riding with them but now ride with a great deal of fear that my race day will be over the first time I get a flat.

Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what is your solution?

Thanks.

Chris G

 I have 808 clinchers. First, the tires matter.  What tires do you have on them?  Michelins are a pain, Vittorias and Zipps are easier, roll better also. Second, you need the new pedro's big beefy stiff levers. Third, what rim tape do you have on them?  Way harder with velox than the thin zipp ones or similar thin plastic type.  Makes a difference.  Also, it is bit counter intuitive but if you start on the side farthest from the valve stem and move toward it should be easier [that one came from a Michelin rep in response to people complaining about pro race 3's].

Really just have to pry them on and off.  As I switch tires road to trainer to race tire tube etc I have changed the tire on my rear seemingly a million times it get easier.  FWIW I changed the rear one in 3 minutes 21 seconds from dismount to mount again last year.  

Al Truscott

I have 404 clinchers (650s) and it indeed is as ROYAL pain dealing with changing tires. I have no secrets, only arthritic fingers and ruined thumbs, which doesn't help matters. I just bought some Mich. Pro 3s, and gave up trying to get them on. I have Conti 4000 GPs I can (barely) get on and off.

I usually end up using three different size tire levels, a fat one for strength and a skinny one to slide incrementally along the rim under the bead, about 5 mm at a time. It's maddening. 

Norton

I thought clinchers were easier to change during a race? A selling point against tubular?

Spokane_Al

Wow - Chris G gave me hope and Al just dashed it. I ride with Vittorias (per the spreadsheet tire/tube study that is periodically updated) and have been using the thicker velox rim tape. Per Chris' suggestion I ordered some thin Zipp rim tape and also pedro's big beefy stiff levers. I also ordered a Quik Stik Tire Changer from REI which will hopefully address Al's solution of using different sized tire levers. Once this stuff arrives you can find me in my garage, removing and reinstalling my tires, over and over until I get it right.

P.S. I suppose I have also increased my flat tire anxiety level by riding with latex tubes for the first time.

kurshing

So, is it just the Zipps brand (clinchers) on which it is that are hard to change the tire? If so, is there another recommendation as to a clincher race wheel brand that DOESN'T have the same issues?

I ask because I am about to get some race wheels and WAS leaning towards 808 clinchers...

Chris G

 Latex tubes are not more fragile than butyl ones while you are riding them, just when installing them.  Not a big deal either way if you are careful.  Clinchers are easier to change in my experience.  I could not get a properly glued tubbie off to save my life.  Everyone who claims they can do it super quick and easy usually never have.  Do not even get me started on the "just cut it off with a razor" nonsense.

Nemo Brauch

EEEEY- OK, I think I better practice changing the tires on my Zipps. Haven't had to do it yet and am just now realizing it might be harder than on my training tires. OY!

Norton

@Chris G: now that's smackdown talk! Yer on!

Coach Rich

Flat Changing Smackdown:

Clincher vs Tubular

Chris vs Bill

Rules: from dismount to remount (ie, wheel out and back in). Your choice of tools, switchblades, shanks, whatever it takes. Must be videoed and posted to forum

 

mattsull

Pedro's Shanks!

jwpicciotto

As said previously, tires matter. As an example for my wheels Vittoria EVO-CX no problem, CS I can barely get on and off. Also as Chris mentioned you always start taking the tire off opposite the valve stem and finish putting it back on opposite the valve stem. This increases the felxibility of the tire to roll back on the rim. We have all been taught to have some air in the tube before you start putting the new tire on, but especially with low profile tires, this can make putting the tire back on a real chore.

mancona

I find new tires to be a pain but I force them on and off with out a tube a few times and then they seem to loosen up. As othes said tire and rim tape choice makes a huge difference.

kurshing

I am really going to show how 'retarded' I am on this one...I have never had race wheels, but, what the hell is rim tape? I have changed tired on my stock wheels, and, I have had Virrtorria and now Contenintal tires...I didn't really notice a difference to be honest.

What am I missing?

Chris G

 Bill sent me his video...it is pretty impressive:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJWhNg-QiTc

 

 

As for the smackdown.  As I am charmed I do not think that I will ever get a flat again.  I will participate in a tire changing contest for beers in the bar after the LP dinner though.

Spokane_Al

Stephan, after you remove the tire and tube, you will notice a band of material or plastic that sits in the wheel rim, and keeps the tube from coming in contact with the heads of the spokes. Your wheels already have that material installed. Sometimes, after many tire removal and replacement processes, this material can tear, fold in places, become damaged, or slip so the hole no longer lines up with the tube valve extension. If this rim tape no longer sufficiently covers the spoke heads you will know because you can get flat after flat after flat.

The traditional rim tape is very cheap at only a couple of bucks or so, and as you would expect Zipp's version is more expensive at $6.00 per wheel, plus shipping.

The traditional rim tape in a thicker velox material, which Chris and others say is the wrong material when attempting to fight through removing and reinstalling or replacing tires and/or tubes on Zipp wheels.

P.S. When I purchased my Zipp wheels, upon receipt I noted that they did not come with rim tape, so I hustled down to my LBS and bought the velox stuff, which apparently compounds my tire changing misery.

Chris G

 @Al - nothing wrong with velox rim tape.  Thicker and cloth.  Traditional and popular for a good reason.  It works great.  Also no need for the zipp branded stuff as there are a bunch of brands that are pretty much the same.  It is thinner and give you better clearance for changing the tire.  The drawback is that it is thinner and you are slightly more likely to have an issue with it, maybe.

Norton

Chris,

Well done with the video find; yeah, that's me all right.

My thumbs are trashed from installing new clincher tires for the 600k brevet I'm rolling next weekend. I'd BETTER not get a flat; these Challenge Parigi-Roubaix babies were a bitch to get on. You'll note I'm NOT riding tubular.

Al Truscott

I'm thinking of springing for these babies I saw in the TriSPorts catalog I got by snail mail last week, and trying them out AFTER IM CDA 

kurshing

Makes sense...thanks Al.  So, what you guys are saying is that, in general, LESS rim tape (or not so thick at least) makes it easier to change clinchers on Zipps?

If I am about to get a pair of 808s (which I think I am), what would you recommend right out of the gate then when I go get them from my LBS?

 

Nemo Brauch

Dear God, Al, thank you for bringing up this issue!!!

OK- I'm really pretty good at the whole tire change thing and hile I admit that putting the tire back on can kill my hands, I've never had trouble getting one off before. But HOLY CRAP!!! I just spent 20 min trying to get this freakin Michelin "Ironman" (give me a break- it came with the used wheels) off my new (to me) Zipp 404's and I still haven't gotten the dang tire off!!! I've got all manner of various size and shape tire levers and nothing is working. I'm really gonna be pissed if I get a flat and can't change the dang thing!

Oh- and I just bought a new pair of tires recently so I'm ready to replace the used ones that came with the wheels. I don't have many options with 650s, but I have Bontragers as the replacements- I'm REALLY hoping these go on/off better!

Al- keep us posted on how your efforts go with the new Pedro Shanks and rim tape.

Paul Hough

@Al - so if you spring for those plugs, please weigh them, and the correct amount of tape. It's hard to believe they would be lighter, but my inner weight weenie says if they are...get 'em!

Spokane_Al

Here is an update on my Zipp 808 tire changing challenges. I purchased both the Pedro Shanks and the thinner Zipp rim tape and things went much better. I removed and reinstalled both tires (a couple of times for practice), tubes and rim tapes and am now confident that I can make the change in a race. The thicker Pedro Shanks made a big difference and they will definitely go into my bike kit.



I feel alot better now knowing that I can control my own destiny in the event of a flat during a race or a ride along ways from home.

Special thanks goes to @Chris G for your terrific recommendations.

Nemo Brauch

Al- I can't find anything called a Pedro Shank. All I can find are Pedro Tire levers. Is this what you bought?
http://www.rei.com/product/705651

Spokane_Al

Nemo that is exactly what I bought.

The other thing I learned from a recent conversation with a Zipp rep is, prior to removing the tire, work your way around the tire, squeezing the tire so the the outside tire edges are all moved inward a bit.  He said that this will allow just a bit more wiggle room when working with the tire tools, and it did seem to help.

And I think that it was mentioned earlier to start the removal process 180 degrees from the tube stem.

mancona

Here are my two favorite tire levers.  both make it significantly easy, even with the yellow home trainer tire.

Quik Stik: http://www.rei.com/product/546083

Speed Lever: http://www.rei.com/product/627610

Nemo Brauch

I have the speed lever- love it. But it's not helping me at all on the Zipps. When I finally get the tire off I'll inspect the rim tape- I'm gonna bet it's thick Performance brand type stuff.

Paul Hough

So Matt - are you OK with changing tires on Zipp wheels? I'm thinking of nabbing a 2010 808 rear/404 front on a 4th of July sale (ends tomorrow)? The only tire I ever have trouble with on any wheel is the orange indoor trainer tire. r/Paul

Dave Barr

One thing I've done to make tire changing easier is to get the plugs that fill in the rim holes and ditch the rim tape all together.  They are red and just pop into each hole.  Here's a link to what I use.  I bought mine off of eBay.  www.ebikestop.com/velocity_rim_plug...RS1001.php

DocHoffart

I have some of those plugs. The size of my holes on my velomax tempestII wheels require that a few of the plugs are loose and I hold them in with electrical tape. They are lighter as I only need 24 of them on the rear wheel, which is lighter than tape.

Vince

Dave Barr

I've had the same issue but overall they have worked great.

Dave