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December Outseason Week 4 Bike AND Run Thread - Closing out 2017 with GAINS

Merry Christmas December Outseasoners

Did an easy peasy 5 miles this morning as part of the EN Holidays 8 Days of Running Challenge.  Definitely no sub-freezing temps here in SC, but cooling off a little bit.  I need to do more of the non-TRP/Zone runs at this less than z1 pace.  Feeling froggy and jumped into the first day of Zwiftermas bike series and did a "C" group ride.  If nothing else, this takes care of most of tomorrow's scheduled 2x18, as my 45 minute power curve was above FTP, and Zwift noted FTP jump from 221 I had entered to around 236.  Ooph, now I have to work harder.  May try to continue to do some swift racing throughout this week.  Have fun all!!

Mark
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  • Starting week 5.  Ran 60 mins in South GA.  Beautiful morning at 40 degrees.  Back to Tampa and bike test tomorrow.
  • The ever loved FTP test.  Up 21.  From 258 to 279!  BOOM!
  • @Brian Terwilliger  Yuuuge gains!  Well done sir.  Motivates me to keep on keeping on.  Saying all that, I may take it easy the next couple of days.  Did second Zwift race in two days; 25.8 miles @ near FTP for over an hour, then a short 3 mile brick after.  A few leg muscles were showing some tweaks where they shouldn't be, and rarely are, so may have been overdoing it a bit.  Chilling in the Normatecs now, and will see what tomorrow brings.  Mark
  • @Brian Terwilliger  - Congrats...massive gains!  I rarely ever complete a FTP test and tonight was no different.  Last time I finished a FTP test was about 11 months ago...with FTP @ 206 and I've been setting my computer at 230 since the summer.  I race very well on the bike in my AG, but just can't push the clock by myself.  So tonight I went 10 mins @ 243 avg, back to Z2 for 5 mins, then 5 mins @ 247 average.  That might be about 210 FTP.  Gotta think about whether I will dial it back on the trainer.  Meanwhile, I hit a max heart rate of 180 bpm tonight.  The 220 - age formula says my max should be 160, so yeah, it felt like I was dying on the trainer.  No way I can push a run TT by myself so I just signed up for a 5 mile race on Saturday morning.  Hopefully I can get a V02 max over 25!!  Getting old sucks.

  • edited December 27, 2017 2:55PM
    My HR is generally stupid low on the bike.  Last night it blipped 163 for a few seconds at the end of the 20'. Avg HR for the test was 154.  I don't believe it has ever hit that number before on the bike.  Even in the brutal southern heat in the summer, I'll average low 120s for Z3 training rides.  It does run a bit higher on the trainer than the road.  220-age puts me at 176.  If I ever see that number on my HR reading I'm calling 911. 

    Coach P and I had to come up with an alternate "off the bike" run strategy because if I tried to run at my last hours avg HR coming off the bike at IMChoo, there would be no running.  A brisk walk puts me at 120 HR.  So we added 10-15 BPM to the avg for the run start zone to stay in. 

    Have the 5K TT tonight, weather permitting.  May freaking snow and ice.  But if I do get to do it, I'd wager my avg HR comes in around 152.


    An alternate to the FTP "test" that may work out well could be one of Zwifts 6.2 mile races.  Chase someone or see how many you can pass.  While likely well short of 20 minutes, it would provide a nice number to draw from.

    Or sign up for a longer race, like a 17 miler.  Get in a good warm up then join the race a few minutes before start and chase/pass as best you can for 20 minutes, then quit the race.  Easier to chase/pass for 20' than ride solo and just stare at power and cadence numbers. 
  • @Brian Terwilliger  Yuuuge gains!  Well done sir.  Motivates me to keep on keeping on.  Saying all that, I may take it easy the next couple of days.  Did second Zwift race in two days; 25.8 miles @ near FTP for over an hour, then a short 3 mile brick after.  A few leg muscles were showing some tweaks where they shouldn't be, and rarely are, so may have been overdoing it a bit.  Chilling in the Normatecs now, and will see what tomorrow brings.  Mark

    I've really come to enjoy and look forward to the Zwift races.  I get my butt handed to me in them, but I am able to 'race' them at a much higher sustained output than if I were to try such over the same distance or time in a free ride.  To combat the boredom of the last 60' in Z3 on the long ride, I've substituted a 17 to 26 mile Zwift race for that hour.  I like that structure.  Knock out the first 90' of the workout, stretch, grab a snack, and then hop back on and see what I can do for an hour. 
  • Zwift racing is a great substitute for FTP work....I don't know how I did it before honestly.

    Tuesday Zwift race/FTP work: https://www.strava.com/activities/1327819252

    As long as you can get comfortable with getting your a$$ handed to you a couple of times as week......you will get stronger!
  • Zwift ABP work today: https://www.strava.com/activities/1329443017

    Never worked ABP quite as well before Zwift.

    SS
  • @Shaughn Simmons - I would report similar except substitute Rouvy for Zwift.  I need only pick a route with significant and extended climbing and have no choice but to work.

  • I think I hate the 5K time trial more than the FTP test.  One of my friends describes 5K's as a "Heart Attack in a box". They are the most evil of run distances.  

    Had the week 5 TT tonight.  I don't know how, or where it came from but a huge PR tonight.  19:20!!!  First time under 20 in 2 years.  
  • @Brian Terwilliger  My jealousy continues...19:20 is awesome.  I'm not sure I've been under 21 in quite a few years, but think I would be there if I ran it now; maybe even sub 20 as well, but would likely be close.  Thinking about a 5k on New Years Day, but supposed to be quite chilly here so not sure if I'm going to do it.  I think I have to do my 5k TT in a race; never can seem to pull together the resilience to do it without a race scenario:o)  

    Did an hour tonight with 6 @ TRP of ~8:37, then last mile in 6:36.  Was pretty happy with that.

    @Shaughn Simmons  Do you do timed efforts anymore, or just race all out?  Wondering if I'm missing anything by not doing 30/30s or FTP sets.  Seems I get plenty of the efforts during a race, but not really scripted.

    Mark
  • edited December 28, 2017 1:54AM
    @Mark Hickman

    I almost bailed and just ran for an hour at TRP.  Playing with the zone calculator earlier today I'd of needed to go sub 19 to cause any change in my zones.  Which were set 9 months ago with the end of OS half marathon test race (1:29:38).  So I figured there was really no point.  I wasn't going to set them slower as I was still able to hit them on my runs.  Well, plugged in todays run and zones stayed exactly the same.  Now I'm actually looking forward to the next one in 5 weeks to see if I can break 19.  Something I didn't think would ever be realistically within reach.  Not bad for a 44 year old former chain smoker who vapes like a freight train.  Haven't lost a single pound yet though.  I really gotta start focusing on that.  But I love to eat all the things.  At least I haven't gained a pound.  Holding steady at 185 since start of OS.  And with a sedentary job at a desk all day, its easy to not lose weight.
  • @Brian Terwilliger, @Mark Hickman - I hate you both.  Not only am I old, my 'athletic age' is very, very old, meaning I have worn myself out from decades of hard competition.  In short, I would be lucky to break 25 mins in a 5K with a concerted training effort.  On the other hand, I've run 5K under 15 mins a number of times with a best of 14:35 but that was long, long, long, long ago.  And at the time I did that, I couldn't have swam well enough to save my own life.

    Meanwhile, I'm back on the diet today.  Yesterday I felt like a chocolate chip cookie with little stick arms and legs.  I think the 180 heart rate yesterday wore me out because I couldn't get up for nothing this morning.  However, I did manage 2000 yards at the pool this evening followed by a 4 mile run.  And so it goes.


  • @Paul Hough Don't sell yourself short; I bet you could run a sub 22' 5K this weekend. I'm gonna give it a try Jan 6. If I can do it, you can, too. You were 1 min/mi faster than me in Penticton, after all.
  • edited December 28, 2017 3:05PM
    First forum checking during the DOS and it's already week 4. Hard to keep up with what goes where with the GroupMe's, the core tracker, the forum posts, etc. I was hit by a virus last week and had to take a step back, but am back at it this week. Felt good to run again yesterday - first time in over a week. I've been using Zwift races in place of the bike workouts and have found this to be beneficial since I push harder in races.

    Wasn't really looking forward to the 5K test next week, but realized I'm registered for a resolution run on the 1st, so I will substitute that for the test and just shoot for a PR.

    Loving the OS so far.

    Congrats to @Brian Terwilliger on the huge gains thus far - gives me something to shoot for!
  • edited December 28, 2017 10:09PM
    @Todd Middlebrooks - welcome back.
    @Mark Hickman "Do I do timed efforts with Zwift?" - it depends.  Tuesday Week 9 Nov OS has a L3, 3 X 12' FTP BUT, I raced on Zwift a 1X44' at .94 ....much more difficult and more TSS than a 3 X12'.

    Today had a 10X1' Vo2.....sometimes I will do the 1 lap Zwift race which ends up being something like a 1X13' @ 1.1-1.15, however, nothing was going on at that time so I did my own 20X1' V02 set at 1.15-1.20 IF...

    https://www.strava.com/activities/1330871110/analysis

    SS

  • For today's FTP work, I did Jordan Rapp's group workout on Zwift...65', 50 of which were 5 x (5' @ 0.9 IF,  5' @ 0.75-0.8 IF). No downtime, just work. For the holiday week, I'm doing daily Zwift rides, along with 3 swims, 5 runs, and 2 weight sesions. Feels a bit taxing,but pleasently so.
  • @Al Truscott,  - I've run 3 5Ks in the past two months, and squeeked under 25 mins in just one of them. I can't touch you at that distance. I have no speed but I am like a Porsche lawn mower and can work the endurance hard.  Also, fast before far works for me on the bike; it absolutely does NOT work on the run. I discovered long ago that Lydiard training was best for my deficiencies.  I am working hip mobility and core stability hard since I had my gait analysis; but like you said, it will probably only slow the decline rather than reverse it.

    Meanwhile, I started this morning with a 2 hour easy bike ride on the trainer so I could watch Atomic Blonde.  This evening I felt like shit and only made it a little over 4 miles running.
  • @Paul Hough Odd how things evolve...you're my rabbit for the longer stuff. I should probably follow your lead with the shorter, faster stuff as well. While I don't have any current joint issues, I remain fearful of setting them off by doing anything over Z3, which is about 7:50-8:15 min miles for me. I can go 8:45 all day, but if I try anything in the low 7's, I need to not try again for at least 10 days, I think. Still, I can't help myself, I like going fast, so I'll do one more 5K this season and hope I don't break. 

    AND...Atomic Blonde is sitting in the Blu-Ray right now, waiting for a Friday Night viewing.

  • @Shaughn Simmons  Thanks for the feedback; I've been looking for races to do instead of the scheduled workouts. I definitely think I'm getting a lot out of them as I'm either trying to stay with a group or catch others whenever I can.

    Rode KISS D race last night.  Note to self: London Loop includes Box or Fox Hill, whichever it was.  Group was broken up first time up the hill, then was chasing down folks the second time through; no way I would have put forth that effort without those carrots up the hill.  Ran an easy 2 last night.  Ran 2.2 today with the pup; really feeling it, so no more for today.  Will find something longer to ride this weekend; perhaps the Fondo Zwiftmas thing @Al Truscott was referring to on another thread.

    Think I'm going to skip 5K race on Monday and continue to swag my run paces; as a life long runner, I think I know where I should be, though my slow runs are probably a bit quicker than zones might suggest.  I do have the Army's 2 Mile as part of physical fitness test coming up mid-January, and will try to see if I can hit 13 flat, or even how much under that I can go.

    Mark
  • Fairly light day today.  I struggled to get up but made it to gym for 45 mins and followed that with a 2.5 mile run.  This evening I swam a short 1500 yards.  I've been doing my shoulder exercises religiously the last month and they seem to be having a positive effect.
  • Hacking the weekend.

    Sat AM - 5 mile road race (flat but including 2 miles XC) in 41:18.  So 8:16 average.  I came through mile 1 in 7:46 and died...I don't do any serious speed anymore so that hurt.  2nd of 10 in M60-64, but only good for 38 Vdot.  

    Sat PM - 2.5 hours of very easy Z1/Z2 on the trainer.   Finally saw Spiderman Homecoming = C+.  Atomic Blonde was sooooooo much better.
  • Two hours 5 min of Zwift riding with EN team-mates, overall 0.825 IF, 150 TSS. Good ABP ride with one 8 minute interval @ 1.0 near the end. "That's Where the Training Happens."®

    Then a 3.1 mi run in the afternoon, 29:45. My HR was high, pace slow, and power low for this route, so I musta been a little tired, but my form power was nominal, so thats good. I just slowed down, didn't fall apart.
  • Didn't run for more than hour at time this week, but still hit 27 miles with 2.5 today.  Longest was 7 on Wednesday.  I feel pretty good with where I am on the run.  Will run short tomorrow in anticipation of FTP test on Tuesday.  Really ramped up the bike mileage this week; completed 145 miles.  Races over last 2 days of 45 minutes at 103% and 110 minutes at 99%.  So perhaps the FTP test really is needed:o)  

    Overall, reached about 11.5 hours this week, and after looking back at Strava training log, this was the most since May of 2015 in prep for my last full, IM CDA.  Body seems to be taking it well; so no real issues there.  Perhaps I should pay for the TrainerRoad membership and figure out this while CTL thing...

    Happy New Years to each of you.
  • Well 2017 is a wrap.  I ran 8.16 miles today for a weekly total of 30.8.  I put in a couple of hours on the trainer including Hunter Allens 4 peaks workout to end the week with 123 miles.  But the pool was closed today (& tomorrow) so I only managed 2 short swims this week.  Time to bring on 2018.  Did I mention I'm racing on 7 Jan?  Hoo-boy!

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