Treadmill or outside run during the winter ?

Francis Picard

Its starting to be no fun to run outside since 2 weeks. I am thinking of subscribing to the gym in the building where I work, price is cheap (10$/month).

As the OS starts soon I am wondering if I should do all my runs outside or on a TM using Zwift. Outside I cant run as fast as on a dry surface, with all the ice and I always run when its dark. I am about 30-35 seconds per KM slower during the winter.

Its nice to be outside sometimes but I wish to get the most of my training sessions. I am pretty sure that running on snow and ice helps to strengthen some muscles but my goal is to really get faster by using a TM during the OS and get back outside when the ice and snow are gone

What are your thoughts ?

Gordon Cherwoniak

@Francis Picard I run on a treadmill a lot in the winter because of the snow/ice here is Saskatchewan.  If you are getting better quality workouts then I'd lean toward more treadmill work especially if you have access to a cheap option to get the work in.  

The only down side of the gym is making sure you get a machine when you want.  So if the treadmills are always busy when you go in it's just messing up your schedule.  Further January can be a difficult time at the gym as there are many new faces at most gyms from their resolution. (not knocking them, just something I've noticed).  Where I've been the first couple week tend to be the worst with others hanging on for 3-4 weeks.  Then things tend to get back to normal with a few new people.

Some people go bonkers with too much indoor work so perhaps get out on occasion for an outdoor run.  

Al Truscott

Whatever works to (a) keep you running next month and (b) saves you from twisting an ankle or falling on your hip.

Jeff Kane

@Francis Picard, Zwift will keep you motivated and the treadmill will protect you from the elements and the possibility of injuries. The most important aspect which you mentioned is efficiency of time and the treadmill will serve that. Happy Running!

Shaughn Simmons

@Francis Picard - it depends.....

Safety first followed by sanity/convenience.

If it means running in the rain, snow and/or ice, go to the TM.  It's not worth fighting those kind of elements while trying to get in quality run work.  If you are forced to go to the TM, raise that thing to 1-1.5% grade to make those hipflexors engage a bit more and offset that fact that the belt is doing some of the work for you.

Find a few days a week to mix in some outdoor running if possible but don't compromise your safety at any cost.

Happy New Year!

SS

Stephen Cogger

I love running outside, but with shorter days, icy roads and crazy drivers I take to the treadmill for most my winter runs. I aim to get outside when schedule and weather allows. And have accepted that the treadmill now will make March and April so much more fun.

As an aside; we posted to a local buy/sell/trade group years ago and ended up with a free treadmill. Best investment I ever made.

Francis Picard

Thanks all!

I will now redirect the question to :   

is outside run (working different muscle) better than running fast and on a TM ?
put aside the safety of not being at risk of sliding on the ice/snow

Gordon Cherwoniak

@Francis Picard There is lots of anecdotal information out there about people feeling the treadmill uses different muscles such as the hip flexors more.  As the belt is turning you are not pushing off as much and the smaller stabilizer muscles in your legs.  Finally the treadmill has more give or cushioning than the road so your body will not feel the pounding as much, see the final study.

I found the following studies.  I'm sure there's something better to show working different muscles but I'm tired and could not find them in my search and I'm now tired. 

For the movement the common suggestion is to run at 1% gradient. One study I've found suggest the energetic cost of the indoor and outdoor run is similar at 1% gradient for velocities between 2.92m/s and 5.0 m/s.  This is some pretty fast running by my calculation it's 6.53 (10.51KM/per hour)to 11.18 (18 KM/ per hour)miles per hour pace.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8887211 

Not sure this gets to the specifics of your question but there are some studies that show you are working different muscle waling on a treadmill vs running on a track.  That is walking uses the quads more versus the track. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21215636

Finally this article on mechanical efficiency of running shows more ground reaction force (In physics, and in particular in biomechanics, the ground reaction force is the force exerted by the ground on a body in contact with it)on the track versus the treadmill. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7552765 

Derrek Sanks

If safety (running on ice/snow) and temps are not a factor, IMO, running outside is always better...unless you're training for a treadmill race.   

Gordon Cherwoniak

odd how my December 28th post to your follow up question moved ahead of my first response.

Edwin Croucher

For me, the TM first of all keeps me running. During my work week, I have very few times where I can run outside in daylight. I will run outside at night as long as it is not raining or snowing. The visibility for drivers is just to low. When I run at night, I have a strong resemblance to the classic UFO. I have flashing lights and reflective strips. These have not freed me from jumping off the shoulder to avoid the cars that seem to line up on the flashing lights. So, during this time of year I hit the TM a lot. Since I am going to be on it, I try to make best use of it. I have been working on my running form and cadence. My goal is to hold a cadence over 180 for all runs. My cadence was normally 174 - 177.  Over the last month, I have improved my cadence on the TM to above 180. The improvement has carried over to my outside running where I have held 180 during my last two 10 mile runs. So, for me I look forward to running. Inside or out.

Francis Picard

@Gordon Cherwoniak it did that cuz I clicked on yes to the question at the bottom of every post "did this answer the question"

Eric DePoto

@FP, one of the things you may want to do which helps with form is put the TM at around 1.5-2% grade to mimic your lean (if you will).  I try never to do more than 70 min on the TM so I don't lose my proper form.

Alicia Chase

I used to do a lot of TM miles in the winter. My problem was, the mileage never translated into durability for the road. Once I started running outside in the spring—same weekly mileage as on the TM—I would get a lower leg injury. It wasn’t until I moved all of my running outdoors that the injuries diminished. The cold doesn’t really bother me (it’s all about the clothes), but when road conditions are crappy, making running outdoors difficult and/or unsafe, I have the luxury of strapping on snowshoes and hitting the trails behind my house. 

Edwin Croucher

@Alicia Chase , Run outside when the conditions are favorable. When on the TM, focus on running form. I do a large portion of my winter running inside. When I can get out, the benefits from the focus work on the treadmill are there. 

Alicia Chase

@Edwin Croucher I have done form work focus on the TM—I did cadence work all one winter and successfully improved my running cadence to ~90. I would always set the TM at 1.5-2% grade. Not sure if it’s because I’m such a lightweight, but I actually needed to acquire and adjust to the “pounding” on my legs that running on pavement provided, before I stopped getting hurt.

Shaughn Simmons

Like @Alicia Chase comments - running outside allows my body to adjust overtime to pounding and stress from concrete and pavement....mostly concrete in my case.  Additionally, rolling hills seem to drive strength in my hip flexors that I do not stress as much on the TM with the belt moving for me.

I try to do 20% or less of total weekly running on the TM if I can.  When on the mill, I raise the grade to 1.5% and focus on cadence.  Those days on the TM are welcome breaks from the pavement pounding given I am running 7 days a week now for more than 80 days in row....

SS

Gabe Peterson

My $0.25...  The treadmill is a great tool for building speed and durability while lowering the risk of injury.  Unless I'm on a track, I find it challenging to do interval runs outside.  Of course, I live on the side of a mountain and it's hard to find a flat route.  On the treadmill, I can dial in the intervals.  I also like to mix in durability runs on the treadmill during high mileage weeks when I get that "hit by a truck" feeling.

As others have said above, it's not a direct substitute for running outdoors.  In the winter months when I'm doing most of my workouts in the dark on the weekdays, I make a point to get outdoors on the weekend.

Two tools make the treadmill infinitely more bearable for me:

1. Zwift running.  See my forum post on the topic.
2. Sufferfest running workouts.  Honestly, you could do these three workouts in the winter with a couple easy runs and come out with amazing run fitness.  I keep hoping they will publish more.

Jenniferlyn Kryvicky

@Francis Picard I am in the same category of thinking as @Gabe Peterson on this topic - I use the treadmill as a tool for consistency and control when the weather gets wonky or when I have very specific intervals or sets to run.  I consider it a training tool much like my kickr+ Zwift is for biking - both real world and simulation has a place in our training for different reasons, aside from safety. 

I like being able to control my effort through simulation when it matters and the TM makes that possible.  I also consider these tools as excuse busters.  If I can literally roll outta bed and get on the bike or on the TM regardless of time of day, weather, or schedule - then I have no excuse not to get it done. 

Brian Terwilliger

I'm a treadmill dog.  I love the treadmill.  Ya, I'm sick in the head.  I'm doing the Dec OS.  I'm at 179 miles for the month and less than 20 are outside.  Granted, we've had an unusually cold, wet, icy, and snowy January here in Raleigh NC.  Plus I don't find it to be the best decision for me to hop off the bike all hot and bothered, sweaty as can be and go knock out 3 to 5 miles in the cold.  Much easier to just move over a few feet and get on the treadmill.

I really enjoy being able to dial in paces, hold them steady, and not have to worry about cars, intersections, unseen obstacles hidden by the dark, etc...  Great for intervals.  I always make it a rolling hill run.  Start at 1% and continually move it up and down.  Will often pyramid it from 1 to 5%  with .5 or 1% increments every minute, then down, then repeat, and repeat until the run is over.  Also will throw in a real hill run every couple weeks where I will set it at 3% and go up and down between 3 and 5% for the entirety of the run.  My butt feels that one.

And since running on the treadmill is easier than the road as it is moving under you and you aren't propelling yourself forward, I run at .2 to .3 MPH faster than what my zone paces are.  The treadmill has served me well over the years for winter training.  But once spring and summer come, I rarely touch it.  The brutality of southern summers can't really be duplicated on the treadmill.  If my race is going to have a 100 degree run, as IM Raleigh 70.3 always does, I better get in a bunch of hot running leading up to the race.  

Scott Alexander

A few years ago in 2013 when I did my last IM, Mont Tremblant, I did almost all of my running on the dreadmill. Literally, 2-3 hour runs during lunchtime at the local gym. Hitting the 60min max time allowed, getting off, refilling my bottle, then back on. I did this week in-week out. I almost always got the treadmill that sat right in front of the a/c vent and the fan. It was great.

Here in Texas, I cannot go run at lunch during the summer, just too dam hot.

During the winter, for me at least, the most difficult part is getting myself out the door. I'm a total cold wimp (funny, given my previous comment about the heat), so even getting to a treadmill isn't a great option. Wish I had room in my apartment for my own, I'd use it all the time!

I agree with @Brian Terwilliger about the pros of using it. Just a no-brainer for me.