I think you just wear it underneath and don't tuck it anywhere... I don't think the sleeves create much (if any) drag. And the wetsuit or speedsuit would cover any rear pockets that the tri suit might have...
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:31 PM John Withrow < teamenforums+d24679-s6029573@gmail.com> wrote:
> [image: Endurance Nation Community] > > ------------------------------ > John Withrow commented on sleeved Tri suit > > I think you just wear it underneath and don't tuck it anywhere... I > don't think the sleeves create much (if any) drag. And the wetsuit or > speedsuit would cover any rear pockets that the tri suit might have... > > > > -- > Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out: > > > https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/comment/263567#Comment_263567 > Check it out > >
@Susan Kelly - I'm joking because the most common advice for your question is to remove the top portion of your sleeved suit and roll it down under the swimskin. Then roll it back up after taking the swimskin off. That might be a little awkward for you if there isn't a changing tent.
As to leaving the sleeves down - I would simply suggest you do some testing in the pool to see whether the sleeves live up to the manufacturer claims (aka @JohnWithrow) or slow you down, and repeat that test because tri-suits do not maintain their compressive properties over time (nor do swimskins). And the more I'm in the sport and read about independent tests, the less I'm inclined to believe that swimskins are even an advantage compared to a well fitting, new or relatively new sleeveless - one piece - trisuit. My own personal metric now is to wear a good one piece sleeveless kit for warm water swims, and only use a sleeved tri-suit when the swim is wetsuit legal. So while I have picked up a couple of swim skins over the years, I have no intention of ever buying another unless there is some ridiculous breakthrough that is backed by convincing and independent evidence.
I roll mine down beneath my wetsuit or swim skin. Anything I can do to reduce the resistance (or perceived) in my shoulders the better off I am. I just roll mine down to waist level, and make sure zippers and seems aren't anywhere that will chafe. I also make sure to body glide all the places where the suit is rolled around. I have no trouble putting the tri suit on during the run to transition as the top half of wetsuit or skin is removed.
Back from practice OWS, rolled down top of sleeved suit, borrowed and applied Tri-Slide. Wore sleeveless wetsuit this time. Figured I better try that since water temps in TX are all over the place. I had no problems with chafing, no drag on the swim or shoulder strain. This is the way I'm gonna play it. It does take a bit to get back into sleeves when they are wet. Thank you all so much for your help.
Thanks for this helpful discussion team! @maurice matthews , I'm tagging you since we discussed swim skins on group me and you were interested.
I'm surprised to hear you say you don't think the sleeves on a tri-top would add drag if they were not underneath a wetsuit @John Withrow , I assumed they would, but haven't tested it. I guess I'll have to do some testing.
Cool! I stopped tagging you because there were several. But if you search "Swim skin" in forum, you'll find them . If I pull the trigger on one, I'll let you know. Please do the same! I'm right on the fence....Roka has a really good return policy (you can swim with it and still return it). So I think I'm going to get that and try it out.
I'm surprised to hear you say you don't think the sleeves on a tri-top would add drag if they were not underneath a wetsuit @John Withrow , I assumed they would, but haven't tested it. I guess I'll have to do some testing.
The only way to know for sure is to actually test it. But should test it several ways: just a kit shorts, swimskin with no tri top, swimskin with sleeved top underneath. Maybe randomly rotate through those 3 scenarios a couple times each in say a workout with many 500yd repeats and try to just swim relaxed for each set and don't look at your watch or the clock until the 500 is finished and record the setup and time... Then vary the order of testing on a couple of different 6x 500yd workouts on a couple of different days. Then dump all of that data and see if there are any correlations. And if you're going to say it's actually true for anyone other than your n=1, you'd also need to have a whole bunch of people repeat the same test... You're a scientist, you should be able to setup an experiment...
My guess is that there is very little, if any statistical significance... In an ideal test, all of your 500yd sets of the same setup (i.e. swim skin with sleeved tri suit under it) are all within a couple of seconds of each other. AND this time is significantly different than say a different setup (i.e. swim skin with no shirt underneath). Good Luck. There's probably enough variation in most of our pathetic triathlete "non-swimmer" 500's under ideal and similar conditions that the data will be pretty hard to interpret.
BUT, even if you find that you're say 5 seconds faster per 500 with no tri top under it than with one, that's still only ~40 seconds in an IM swim. Then subtract how long it would take you to put on a tri top on a wet body (or even just pull one up) and you're probably down to somewhere in the 10-20 second advantage. I get that for "some" people ~20 seconds might be the difference between a KQ or not a KQ, but that differential "might" be like 1-2 people per year in all of Ironman. I sure as hell hope that one person is not me...
However, "If" the difference for you is more like 5 seconds per 100yds, then we're talking about ~3 mins for an IM swim and that would ABSOLUTELY be worth it for me to change something.
Hey @John Withrow , I appreciate the homework assignment . You and I both like data. I just ordered a skin suit with sleeves so I don't have to worry about it. The difference in cost wasn't much. Its from Roka and they have a generous return policy. So I'm going to try it out this weekend and return if I don't like it. Thanks a ton for the feedback.
Comments
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:31 PM John Withrow <
teamenforums+d24679-s6029573@gmail.com> wrote:
> [image: Endurance Nation Community]
>
> ------------------------------
> John Withrow commented on sleeved Tri suit
>
> I think you just wear it underneath and don't tuck it anywhere... I
> don't think the sleeves create much (if any) drag. And the wetsuit or
> speedsuit would cover any rear pockets that the tri suit might have...
>
>
>
> --
> Reply to this email directly or follow the link below to check it out:
>
>
> https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/comment/263567#Comment_263567
> Check it out
>
>
As to leaving the sleeves down - I would simply suggest you do some testing in the pool to see whether the sleeves live up to the manufacturer claims (aka @JohnWithrow) or slow you down, and repeat that test because tri-suits do not maintain their compressive properties over time (nor do swimskins). And the more I'm in the sport and read about independent tests, the less I'm inclined to believe that swimskins are even an advantage compared to a well fitting, new or relatively new sleeveless - one piece - trisuit. My own personal metric now is to wear a good one piece sleeveless kit for warm water swims, and only use a sleeved tri-suit when the swim is wetsuit legal. So while I have picked up a couple of swim skins over the years, I have no intention of ever buying another unless there is some ridiculous breakthrough that is backed by convincing and independent evidence.
I had terrible damaging sunburn on my shoulders a few years back and wear the sleeved shirt mostly for sun protection.
I'm surprised to hear you say you don't think the sleeves on a tri-top would add drag if they were not underneath a wetsuit @John Withrow , I assumed they would, but haven't tested it. I guess I'll have to do some testing.
My guess is that there is very little, if any statistical significance... In an ideal test, all of your 500yd sets of the same setup (i.e. swim skin with sleeved tri suit under it) are all within a couple of seconds of each other. AND this time is significantly different than say a different setup (i.e. swim skin with no shirt underneath). Good Luck. There's probably enough variation in most of our pathetic triathlete "non-swimmer" 500's under ideal and similar conditions that the data will be pretty hard to interpret.
BUT, even if you find that you're say 5 seconds faster per 500 with no tri top under it than with one, that's still only ~40 seconds in an IM swim. Then subtract how long it would take you to put on a tri top on a wet body (or even just pull one up) and you're probably down to somewhere in the 10-20 second advantage. I get that for "some" people ~20 seconds might be the difference between a KQ or not a KQ, but that differential "might" be like 1-2 people per year in all of Ironman. I sure as hell hope that one person is not me...
However, "If" the difference for you is more like 5 seconds per 100yds, then we're talking about ~3 mins for an IM swim and that would ABSOLUTELY be worth it for me to change something.