Pacing a 70.3 bike leg as a relay team member

John Katsoudas

I'm doing the bike leg of 70.3 Santa Cruz on Sept. as a relay team member.  I'd love some input on what IF/TSS to target for the bike since I'm not running afterward. 

Thanks,
John

John Withrow

@John Katsoudas    Is it a hilly course?  What is your FTP?  W/Kg?   Have you done any long HARD rides before...?

Answers to some of the above "might" change some of what I'm about to say, but...

If I were doing the bike leg of a 70.3, I'd make sure that I could have a warm-up ride prior to the race.  Be riding easy-ish ~20 mins as the swim leg is starting with a couple ~60-120s intervals at or near FTP.    Then I'd rack the bike like ~10-20 mins after the swim start (I did the bike leg of Challenge AC Relay a few yrs ago and had my road bike in my car because we had to have our bike racked before the race...   So I warmed up on my road bike, then threw handed it off to our runner to go stash in my car as I went to the hand-off coral).  

Then I'd try to dial in 0.80-0.85 IF for the first hour and crank it up a little bit each ~15 mins after that...  If you have anything left once you're ~40 miles in, spend it all in the last 30-40 mins... It's REALLY hard to ride north of 85% for ~2.5 hours...  It is possible, but just really hard.    You should be TRASHED when you finish that ride.   But, I also recommend (after laying on the ground panting for 3-5 mins) doing a ~1-2 mile easy brick run just to see what it's like to run after that type of effort and also to flush out your legs.   

Also, don't worry about VI.  When you have to run afterwards, you want to ride super steady and smooth to save your legs...   In a pure bike TT, the fastest way around the course is likely to hammer up the hills and take really short recoveries after you're up to speed coming down the other side.

Paul Curtin

.88 and 200+

John Katsoudas

Thank you both!  

@John Withrow I'll try to answer some of your questions.  No, the course has some rollers, but basically runs up and back on Hwy 1 along the coast.  Total elevation gain is 2,284 ft.  Here's the link to the bike course profile.  My current FTP is ~290 on my road bike (most recent test). It should be ~12W less on the tri bike.  I'll be testing again on the tri bike next week, so I'll have a better sense.  At race weight (155 lbs) that puts me at ~3.95W/Kg @ FTP.  Everyone's definition of "hard" is different, but I did several race sim rides for 70.3 CdA in the 0.81 - 0.83 IF range and was able to run well off of that, so I'm thinking I could go a bit harder than that if I'm not worried about having to run afterward.  

I'm planning to use BestBikeSplit for this course like I did for 70.3 CdA.  For that race, I capped the max power at 95% of FTP to minimize VI, but in this case, I may go with the 'default' BBS value (120% of FTP).  I "pre-rode" the CdA course several times by downloading the BBS profile into Zwift, so I may do the same again for this race and see how it feels.

From what both of you are saying, it sounds like a good starting point for the BBS model might be 0.86 IF with a max power of 120% of FTP.  This race plan gives a TSS of 181.  If this sounds reasonable, I may ride it this week in Zwift and adjust up/down based on how it feels.  Here's the race profile in BBS:

bestbikesplit.com/public/105178

Thanks,
John

Al Truscott

So the question seems to be, what's the max IF you can sustain for 2.5 hours if:

• You want have to swim first and run after
• And you get periodic recoveries of various lengths while going downhill?

Based on my own experience doing numerous rides in the mountains which have around 2.5 hours of actual work, I can "comfortably" hold 0.85, and can work up to 0.89 for 45 minutes to an hour within such a ride. So I think your choice of 0.86 is a good starting place, and I would agree with Paul that you can probably do 0.88 for two hours, assuming you are willing to fall puking off the bike at the end. And who cares what the TSS is? At least during the ride...

John Withrow

Near 4 w/Kg and having been able to run off of a 0.83 long ride before, I will be disappointed if you aren't >0.86 and UNDER 2:30 bike split...   I think a ~220 is possible with those numbers.    You should also do ALL of the little aero tricks.  You will NOT need a bottle on your down tube, so remove that cage.  I'd say if you start with a full belly of liquids, only having a BTA bottle will be plenty on a 70.3 course for less than 2.5 hrs. 

John Katsoudas

Thanks @John Withrow.  I modeled the course in BestBikeSplit with a 0.86 IF and rode it in Zwift yesterday.  I think my FTP estimate was a bit optimistic coming off a few weeks of no riding while we were on vacation in Greece, but I got through it.  It probably also seemed harder than normal since I'm re-adjusting to the tri bike after having been back on the road bike for a few weeks.  In any case, I'm hoping to get back some fitness and comfort in the aero bars in the next few weeks and build up to a 0.88 IF model.  Seems doable.  BBS predicts a 2:27 at 0.86 and 2:25 at 0.88.  Now... losing those few pounds I found on vacation is another story   I agree on the bottle.  For 70.3 CdA I had one bottle BTA and one behind the seat.  BTA was Gatorade Endurance and behind the seat was water for when I'd eat Clif Bloks.  Seeing as how I'm not worrying about fueling for a run, I can get by with a bottle of GE BTA that I replace at aid stations and ditch the behind-the-seat bottle.

Steve boer

FWIW, i'm not a strong biker, and had a 3:08 doing the whole race last year. Enjoy it, its a great course. no major climbs, but you know that. i was just looking at my strava https://www.strava.com/activities/1178379830#

00:45:44  Climbing time

01:59:10  Flat time

00:23:41  Downhill time

Since you dont have to run off the bike, hammer away. That BBS 2:27-2:25 is a very realistic number, especially with you pushing nearly 4 w/kg.

have you added the stravistix extension yet so you can geek out on strava data?

Not certain if you're staying at dream inn (host hotel), but if you are, enjoy the poolside taco stand overlooking the beach after you're done biking. 

John Katsoudas

Well, that went sideways on me in a hurry.  Over the weekend I lost both of my relay partners.  I'd already gone through my entire list of 'endurance athlete friends' to put this team together.  I suppose I could scramble and hit up the local tri clubs for a couple of stand-ins, but I'm not sure I have the interest in doing a relay with two random strangers.  

I'm a firm believer that all things happen for a reason, so after the initial disappointment, I'm over it now.  I guess it's time to start the outseason a little earlier than planned.  I need to pick a few races for next season.

Steve boer

Why not just do all 3 legs yourself?   

Al Truscott

Is there a shorter race you could pop into? Slamming some sprints and Olys in Sept is a great way to keep the competitive juices running without risking an overload injury in the running department.

(BTW, the shoes I am testing are: Vaporfly 4%, Kinvara, Hoka Cavu, and Saucony Type A8 (racing flats). In another weeks, I'll have two data points for each to share.)

John Katsoudas

@Steve Boer - the thought crossed my mind... in fact, I was originally registered for this race as a regular entrant and switched to a relay team.  The 'issue' is that I'm coming off a three week vacation in Greece where I managed a few runs (and lots of eating) but no bike or swim, so I just don't have the fitness to do all three legs and enjoy it.  The plan was to do a 4 week build post-vacation, focusing on the bike.

@Al Truscott yes, there are a few sprints/oly's in the area through the end of September that I can drop into.  I may try to drop one or two into the calendar for fun.  BTW- nice analysis on the shoes!