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Short Course Pacing

I think I am done recovering from IMLP aka sleeping, eating everything and otherwise avoiding swim, bike or run.  A somewhat local Olympic race popped up on my radar and I'm thinking about doing it. It is in Flagstaff so it is at about 8000' elevation.  I have only run once in the last few weeks, but should have quite a bit of fitness built up. 

My question for everyone is "What do you think the correct pacing should be?" given my recent race.  Bike - IF .85??  Run - MP??

I would think HR would dictate my run pace especially at elevation, but looking for a starting pace suggestion.  This is by no means an "A" race, but it would be fun to see how fast I can go without blowing up.

Any help/suggestions appreciated.
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  • @Gary Lewis I have not raced an oly in years but .85 is the upper end for and the wiki even has 2:20 HIM rides up to .87.  So .85-.9 would be in the realm of possibilities.  I'd start off with figuring out how aggressive you think you want to be. .88 say then adjust that number down by a certain percentage up to 12% depending upon if you are coming from sea level according to the second link.   Maybe start at the adjusted .85 FTP and then bump up the FTP if you are feeling good in the back have of the bike.  

    For the run AL notes 5-10% slower for Tahoe which is only 6200'.  If I recall your vdot of 35 you might want to be on the upper end of that to start.  The question is what pace to take that 5-10%.  I'll have to dig in to that later as I've got to go now.

    Al's given some good advice on pacing at altitude.  I also found a great thread by William Jenks.

    https://endurancenation.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/15526/hard-intervals-altitude 

    http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/12561/Default.aspx
  • @Gary Lewis  Hey At least Flag would be cooler than PHX/Tucson!

    I've raced Xterra and Deuces HIM which is at 6K and change.  I noticed the altitude on swim -especially when I had bronchospasms (Warm up well).... Not so much on bike other than HR ran High vs RPE. Runs I intentionally dialed back.... testing RPE/vs pace & HR... the result was I could hold about 30sec slower pace at what was a good HIM effort (High Z3). For an OLY I find my run is about 15-25 sec slower vs 10K pace when coming off bike and I try holding mid Z4 with room to Kick it up last 1-2 miles...at altitude Id expect HR may be 5 or more BPM than expected at same planned Pace/RPE and that you will feel like a lack of getting enough air at Z4 (panting like Z5).... Id go out at least High Z2-Low Z3 pace (above M pace) for first mile and do a systems check Z3 should be well doable for OLY even with a .85-.9 FTP Bike. Just settle into a "just a bit more uncomfortable than you'd like" pace with goal to ratchet it up and realy suffer last couple miles.
    My HIM Bike power was down about 15w vs HR and RPE So If holding .9 at lower altitude for ~1 hour seems to fast- aim for around .8 for the first half then see how you are breathing... Steady deep rhythmic but un-labored should be about right and a RPE of an 7-8/10.  It should feel LOW Z4 even if #s say High Z3.  
    I know of Tucson Triathletes that totally crush it (and competition) at Flagstaff and White Mt races and don't seem affected at all on bike and only ~10-20sec/mile (+) at HIM run pace and maybe 5sec/mile penalty at OLY run.  The above is Only from MY experiences. 
       - In HS and Freshman college I was smashed when we went to meets in Flag or Prescott...spent my share of time with hands on knees! You can-not dial back at least a little.  Use the first 1/4-1/3rd of each leg to check  #s vs feel....then dial Up/Down from there.  For me it is the run that I most feat it. You may have a different experience.

    It also seems...Higher intensity = grater O2 demand = more sucking wind at altitude ...probably why I can MTB w/o realy feeling the alt except on long hard climbs (>Z4 effort) Thus even though OLY race is Kinda just below LT usually...for FLAG you may need to be sure to not breach VT2 

    Good Luck!  n' report back ;)
  • @Gary Lewis 

    Here's the short course page for some further reference.  Which calls for upper zone 3 HMP to zone 4 TP for the run.

    A 35 vdot gives a zn4/TP of 9:07; zn3/HMP or 9:28 and MP/zn2 of 9:46.  The MP might be a little too easy but you could start out there an bump it up.  If you want to be more aggressive start closer to HMP.
     http://members.endurancenation.us/TrainingPlan/TrainingPlanCentralPage/ShortCoursePlanResources/PacingandNutrition.aspx
  • I try to go all almost all out in an Oly as its so short. Elevation will get you but effort should be high. The only pacing I tell myself is to go faster. I would do.it all by RPE
  • Thanks all for the advice. I was on a short time frame when I posted this. I did not have time to read the links that @Gordon Cherwoniak posted. I opted for the .85IF on the bike which I think was about right. The course has a lot of elevation changes to it.

    The run course was where I failed. I could not handle the elevation/lack of O2. I was short of breath the entire run so my heart rate never got low enough to maintain a good pace. I ended up averaging 11:11/mile pace which was not at all what I expected. I'm not sure how to adjust for that next time. Need some altitude training. The course also had a pretty steep (300') climbing in 1.5 miles.


    @David Howard the altitude seemed more of a factor in Flagstaff than when I raced Deuces Wild. Although Deuces Wild was a hot day when I did it in 2016.

  • @Gary Lewis  Hey At least Flag would be cooler than PHX/Tucson!

    Ive raced Xterra and Deuces HIM which is at 6K and change altitude.  I noticed the altitude on swim -especially when I had bronchospasms (Warm up well).... Not so much on bike other than HR ran High vs RPE. Runs I intentualy dialed back testing RPE/vs pace & HR... the resulkt was I could hold about 30sec slower pace at what was a good HIM effort (High Z3). For an OLY I find my run is about 15-25 sec slower vs 10K pace when coming off bike and I try holding mid Z4 with room to Kick it up last 1-2 miles...at altitude Id expect HR may be 5 or more BPM tahn expected at same plamnned Pace/RPE and that you will feel like a lack of getting enough air at Z4 (panting like Z5).... Id go out at least High Z2 pace (M pace) for first mile and do a systems check Z3 should be well doable for OLY even with a .85-.9 FTP Bike. Just settle into a "just a bit uncomfortable" pace wise.

    ***Original message was truncated and not sent(?)

    Hope it went well.

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