Basic Bicycling Skills: This week's list of questions.

Beth_S

While riding the IMWI course this weekend, i realized there may be time to be had by becoming more adept at a few cycling skills  -- mainly turns and descents.

Descents. I ski down large mountains with no problem. Skier heart translates to road bike riding pretty well. This descending in aerobars with no hands on the brakes? A little weirder. Any good tips for the newbie aero descender? I have a stretch goal of being able to do all the Ironman Wisconsin descents in aero. I think this is entirely do-able, with one very large, windy exception.

Cornering. I've never really learned how to corner on a bike. How do I do this well? And how do I do this well in aero? 

Head tucking. My sister videotaped me riding for a while. My position looks better than I thought, but my head was sticking up when in aero. Any suggestions for practicing good aero head tuck skills?

 

Other random questions --

Rain conditions -- I got to relearn the always carry a rain coat lesson today, so I'm good there but how on earth do I get the pools of water out of my cycling shoes? Can I drill holes in the bottom of them?

Also, my tri bike seems to hate rain. The brakes seem to be a lot squidgier than my road bike when they are wet. Is there any way to fix this?

And do Vittoria Diamante Pro Light tires just suck in rain? I've ridden Michelen Axial Pros, Conti 4000s, Vredesteins, and had them behave way better. Any tire recommendations?

In general, are tri bikes just a little more diva than your average road bike?

 

 

Steven Ford

Posted By Beth Schwindt on 27 Jun 2010 04:13 PM

While riding the IMWI course this weekend, i realized there may be time to be had by becoming more adept at a few cycling skills  -- mainly turns and descents.

Descents. I ski down large mountains with no problem. Skier heart translates to road bike riding pretty well. This descending in aerobars with no hands on the brakes? A little weirder. Any good tips for the newbie aero descender? I have a stretch goal of being able to do all the Ironman Wisconsin descents in aero. I think this is entirely do-able, with one very large, windy exception.  What I do on long downhills is I stay as low as possible but put my hands on the handlebars, yes not completely aero, if you a zipping along and have to move a little to avoid bumps much easier to do. Short hills where I can see no problem I go for it. One other thing I do is if there is no traffic I move more to the middle, less chance of the road being chewed up.

Cornering. I've never really learned how to corner on a bike. How do I do this well? And how do I do this well in aero?  Depends on the corner, sharp you need to come out. When cornering at high speeds the inside pedal stays up and the outside pedal is down and I put pressure on the outside pedal. I am also trying to look ahead to pick my line.

Head tucking. My sister videotaped me riding for a while. My position looks better than I thought, but my head was sticking up when in aero. Any suggestions for practicing good aero head tuck skills?  No thoughts here.

 

Other random questions --

Rain conditions -- I got to relearn the always carry a rain coat lesson today, so I'm good there but how on earth do I get the pools of water out of my cycling shoes? Can I drill holes in the bottom of them?

Also, my tri bike seems to hate rain. The brakes seem to be a lot squidgier than my road bike when they are wet. Is there any way to fix this? If its raining I try to feather the brakes to get the water off the rim, and I start slowing down earlier.

And do Vittoria Diamante Pro Light tires just suck in rain? I've ridden Michelen Axial Pros, Conti 4000s, Vredesteins, and had them behave way better. Any tire recommendations?

In general, are tri bikes just a little more diva than your average road bike?

 

 

 

LynneJ

In general, are tri bikes just a little more diva than your average road bike?

YES. It's a weight distribution thing as far as handling goes and the brakes can get a little wonky the trickier the manufacturer tries to be about hiding them aero. Tires- I've had good luck with Michelin Prorace and am currently riding Bontrager RaceXLite AC as I've had some issues(along with everyone else in HI) with flats. No problems with either on wet roads, Conti tubulars on my race wheels.

Moo 2006 was a 30% chance of rain in the forecast- it rained from start to finish and was only about 55 degrees. Be prepared, I wasn't and paid for it with stupid decision on the run because I could never get warm. 2007 was beautiful conditions and that's what I'm praying for.

 

 

 

Cary Blanco

Re: cornering - get that knee out into the turn it moves your center of gravity inward making it less likely to move outside your line. Look at what motorcyclist racers do.

Summary: outside leg is pedal down low - inside leg is up with knee pointed into the turn.

jwpicciotto

Posted By Beth Schwindt on 27 Jun 2010 04:13 PM

While riding the IMWI course this weekend, i realized there may be time to be had by becoming more adept at a few cycling skills  -- mainly turns and descents.

Descents. I ski down large mountains with no problem. Skier heart translates to road bike riding pretty well. This descending in aerobars with no hands on the brakes? A little weirder. Any good tips for the newbie aero descender? I have a stretch goal of being able to do all the Ironman Wisconsin descents in aero. I think this is entirely do-able, with one very large, windy exception.

I am not very good at this so once my spped gets over about 35 MPH I tend to come out of the aerobarsand use the handlebars.  Others are probably more comfortable with the aero thing than I am on hills.  When you live 45 feet above sea level there aren't a lot of chancs to practice decents. If you find that you do need to come out of the aerobars, grab the horizontal section of the bar just outside of where your aerbars attach.  Tuck your elbows in and lower your chest towards the top tube.  This gets you back pretty close to aero, but feels more stable at high speed.  If the bike starts to vibrate due to the speed there are a couple of things that you can do.  Slow peddle in your biggest gear.  If that doesn't work, then clamp your knees to you top tube.  If that doesn't work, then slow down.

Cornering. I've never really learned how to corner on a bike. How do I do this well? And how do I do this well in aero? 

The most important thing in cornering is to maintain a smooth line.  No sudden handle bar swings to change direction.  As you come into the turn, go in high.  Assuming you are making a right turn.  Stay as far to the left as you can.  You may need to downshift a little to compensate for the loss of speed in the corner.  You will then sweep the bike to inside right corner of the turn.  Then coming out of the corner you will swing out wide again.  So the basic turn is High, Low, High, just like the guys in Nascar.  What this does is allows you to maintain maximum mometum through the turn.   If it is a sharp turn then the outside peddle is kept down and the inside peddle is kept up to keep from scraping the inside against the pavement and causing you to wreck.  If the turn is more gradual, then it is best to peddle through the turn.

On where to put the knee, this is interesting.  Normally you will open up the knee on the inside of the turn to lower the center of gravity of the bike going through the turn.  Visualize the motor cycle racers.  However, at centain speeds this doesn't work and you actually need to bring the knee in to lower the bike and take a more aggressive angle through the turn.  You basically lean the bike towards the ground to counteract the centripidal (centrifical ?  whatever) forces.  You will see this on the descents of the mountain stages of the Tour d' France. 

If the road is wet ignore all of this.  Instead of leaning the bike into the turn, you will keep the bike upright and you will lean your body into the turn.  This keeps the wheels from slipping out from under you in the turn. 

Cornering fast and being aero are not very compatible.  The aero position raises the center of gravity on the bike and pushes your weight forward on the bike.  The same basic principles will work, but you will need to decrease your speed through the turns a little more.  I have seen people try to take a 90 degree turn in their aerobars.  However, I think that this is the one place to come out of them.  I can usually glide through a sharp turn and put 50 meters on a person who tries to stay aero in the same turn.  In that case I conserve much more energy than he does through the turn. 

Head tucking. My sister videotaped me riding for a while. My position looks better than I thought, but my head was sticking up when in aero. Any suggestions for practicing good aero head tuck skills?

 

Other random questions --

Rain conditions -- I got to relearn the always carry a rain coat lesson today, so I'm good there but how on earth do I get the pools of water out of my cycling shoes? Can I drill holes in the bottom of them?

Also, my tri bike seems to hate rain. The brakes seem to be a lot squidgier than my road bike when they are wet. Is there any way to fix this? 

What kind of rims are you riding? 

And do Vittoria Diamante Pro Light tires just suck in rain? I've ridden Michelen Axial Pros, Conti 4000s, Vredesteins, and had them behave way better. Any tire recommendations?

Yes.  The Lights are built for straight course dry road.  Vitorria says that the regular Diamantes handle wet better.  Not sure about that.  You can also try to lower the inflation pressure to get better road adhesion.  I have races on Vittoria EVO - CX for years and have been happy with how they perform.

In general, are tri bikes just a little more diva than your average road bike?

Yes.  The geometry and weight distribution is just different.   

 

marianne

Drying out shoes. Stuff newspaper in them and keep rotating dry paper in and out of them to sop up the water. this is what we do with soccer cleats.. like in a tournament and we gotta get them drier fast. Pull apart the velcro and open up the shoe. if any sunshine near window or other warm surface like the D/W or dryer put them there. with a note of course to put back in your car so you will have for ride! m

Beth_S

Smart haus members -- thank you! I am already a better rider for reading your answers.

And, thank you for giving me an excuse to watch Steve McQueen in Bullitt again for, um, research. And NASCAR. John, double thank you for the details. I can definitely practice those things. I'm thinking I'll mastering cornering smoothing out of aero first (and, perhaps, only) and I can totally tuck down in the batwings of the bars. That makes sense.

Rims -- I'm riding a DT Swiss 585 on the rear and a Mavic Ksyrium Elite on the front.

And good to know my tires just don't do wet. Thanks for all the suggestions of better tires. Any other favorites?

Lynnette -- getting caught in the rain while racing and not being able to warm up is EXACTLY what I want to avoid. Riding yesterday, we got caught in a storm, the temperature dropped fifteen degrees, and there was no way I was going to get warm again before the next squall. Now I know rain jacket goes on early, even if it is eighty degrees and raining, because it may not stay that way. I'm also wondering if there are smart things to put in running/bike special needs bags if it is raining on race day. Perhaps an extra, dry jersey? I also have a few Helly Hansen tops that shed water amazingly well. I've ran in the cold rain in them before and have been amazed at how wet they were on the outside when I took them off because they kept me toasty warm and dry. New socks?  It has been a wet summer in the midwest so far, so I definitely want to be prepared for a rainy day at IMWI.

 

mancona

Great Advice was given so far... just one thing to add. I think I may be able to get even more aero getting out of the aeroabars on the decents at IMWI. I do exactly what Joe described by slighly standing up with my pedals at 6 and 9 o'clock and pinching the seat with my knees that are slighly bent. Then hold the handle bar grips/brake levers or base bar but with my elbows bent and upper body as low as I can get it.

I feel much more in control then in the aerobars, plus it gives the legs and back a little break.

I can't find a picture of the position, but am glad to show you at the IMWI camp.

mancona

Oh Yeah, the head tuck is not easy to practice when in traffic or on roads, but is much easier to do in a race. When you have straigh sections of road give it a try and find some cues to let yourself know you are in the right position. I actually even practiced this on my trainer last year with one ride per week during the IM plan in aero on the trainer.

Coach Patrick

I put my inside hand on the drops/brake so I can slow a bit if I need to. Can't underesitmate enough simply looking where you want to go...try also pushing down on that innner elbow pad with your elbow, should help. In the rain, clearly, I can offer you no advice.

Beth_S

Thanks Matt and P!

Matt - I would love a demo at camp. And very good idea about practicing on the trainer. I'll try it out this week.

Michele Cellai

Beth- as a skier you know- look where you want to go. DO not look at the tree or you will become one with the tree.

The position Mancona describes- I feel much safer in that position since my crashes.

Head tuck- when you can- practice on a safe stretch of road- looking down, try to maintain your position with respect to the road shoulder, the white line, whatever. It does help.

Coach Rich

I'll talk bike handling at the camp this weekend, definitely.

In fact, can someone bring a trainer up for me? Might be helpful to give that talk on my bike on a trainer.

Beth_S

Posted By Rich Strauss on 30 Jun 2010 04:19 PM

I'll talk bike handling at the camp this weekend, definitely.

In fact, can someone bring a trainer up for me? Might be helpful to give that talk on my bike on a trainer.

 

I saw that on the schedule and was excited! Rich -- I can bring my trainer.

Coach Patrick

And can someone video rich doing the talk???? Pretty please?

Swoodowrth

It would be nice to have access to the talks. I had to bail on the camp. Getting a job and taking off for Habitat 500 made it too dicey to come. I would love to hear the talks...

William Jenks

Course recon is huge on the WI course for descents if you, like me, are pretty average at cornering. If you haven't ridden it, there are a few descents that have sharp or near-blind turns at the end of them. But just being pretty familiar with these trouble spots made a HUGE difference for me on them last year. Gave me a lots more confidence and knowledge of when I had to back off/parachute and when I could zip down at full go. They probably aren't that big a deal if you're a great bike handler, but I'm not going to make that claim!

William Jenks

BTW, you're right about aero positioning mattering a lot on the descents. (Duh, I guess!) There's a local river valley crossing here where the bottom has only a gentle turn, so I've learned to take it full out. Just to be at least a little safe at least, I take my hands off the extensions and put them on the bars/brakes just in case, and like Matt describes, get really low. Getting a little extra speed off the top and and getting the best possible position I can do is the difference between ~40 and ~50 mph at the fastest point! I just mention the obvious because i ride it frequently enough to know what the limits are in this case.

jburbatt

I can video Rich doing the talk.

Just the bike skills talk on Friday?  Or others too?

Paul Takac

Great stuff team. Thanks! Any idea when the video of Rich's talk might be available?

jburbatt

Rich videoed all his talks, so I'm sure once he recovers from all his travels he will get them out there

rah2774

this has been super helpful as I'm still a relatively new rider... did you tape the talk? is it available on the forum or in a wiki so I can check it out.
IMWI is on my list for 2011... I will definitely plan on camp (if there is one) and perhaps another recon trip if I can swing a long weekend across the country...

Coach Rich

All talks from this weekend are up on our podcast page here.

I don't know if I'll put the videos up, as the files are ginormously big and I'd likely lose 1-2 days of work and crash my computer as I edit/process and upload them...ugg...though I would like to get the Thursday talk up, if only as proof that I own a collared shirt and can still iron shirts and pants like a champ

Nemo Brauch

Likely excuse. You just don't want everyone to see the expression on your face when you received the pink Speedo! :-)

jwpicciotto

As a suggestion, at least see if you can post stills of the positioning for some of the skills to help people connect with the descriptions from the podcast and this posting.