What is "Fitness"?
I'm hoping to start a fruitful discussion that either goes off in many directions or spawns different threads. (Nutrition, training, glycogen stores, cramping, Central Governor Fatigue, Muscle Strength, Pacing... The possibilities are endless!) And I know my Original Post will already be too long for some people...
There are many things we do inside of EN to raise our fitness levels. The obvious ones are things like FTP and VO2 Intervals and/or Zwift racing on the bike to try to raise our FTP. Or longer rides to raise our 5 hour power. Same can be said with run training and tracking improvements over time in things like HR, or pace, or power while running. Lather/Rinse/Repeat... Get faster, get stronger, get more fit! #WorkWorks
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I have recently talked with people who have slowed down in the latter half of their Ironman runs (know anyone who has done that...?). They describe a feeling of an overall fatigue or fog in their entire body where it simply feels like they are running through molasses and everything just feels harder and slower. This to me seems like it describes what Noakes calls the "Central Governor Theory" where your brain acts as a Central Governor that slows everything down in order to protect critical functions (brain, kidneys, muscles, nervous system, etc). To some extend this "can" theoretically be over-ridden to some extend by using more Will to force your brain to send an ever increasing "stronger" signal to the muscles to simply get the "same" physical response by said muscles that might have been achieved many hours earlier with much less effort.
Here's a decent article summarizing some of Noakes' stuff:
If you don't want to read the whole thing, this is a quote from Noakes:
“Fatigue is a central brain perception, which is based on the sum of the sensory feedback from a variety of organs to the central governor, and which is expressed physically as the alteration in pacing strategy (running speed) caused by a reduction in the muscle mass activated by the motor cortex in the brain.”
Presumably if you are very fit or working at a level of intensity well below one that taxes these systems, you should be able to keep your pace for very long. I think we train so hard to raise the effort (power and pace) that we can perform for the necessary duration (say, an Ironman) to get the fastest possible finishing time.
Is that fitness? Or said a different way, is it "lack of appropriate fitness" that leads to this Fatigue at a given intensity/duration?
I have certainly experienced this in races. Perfect pacing given current "fitness" can prolong where this extreme effort to maintain pace actually starts happening. Mile 18 Anyone? Turning into a "Zombie" and "disconnecting your mind from your body" can often allow you to push through this feeling and maintain pace. I did this in IMMT in 2014 and my guess is @Jeremy Behler did it in Lake Placid this year and @tim cronk and @Al Truscott do it in what seems like every single race they finish!
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I've had plenty of different "reasons" for slowing down in my 10 Ironmans, but the 2nd most prevalent (after Central Governor) was leg cramping. This has taken on different forms for me. Some (I'll call Nerve Related for lack of a better term) have seemed to have been nervous system related (i.e twitching and spasms of a specific muscle like calf or quad). These seem to be the type that some people have found can be stopped in their tracks with things like pickle juice or hot shots, etc. Do these come on because someone screwed up their nutrition @Sheila Leard (i.e. lack of salt or Mg, or dehydrated or other)? Or are they from lack of fitness (working too hard for too long given our fitness levels)? I've literally had a twitching and spasming calf muscle that brought me to actually screaming and tears after Ironman Vineman in the post-race food tent, a good 10 mins after I sat down after the race... Whether or not I (or we) can actually avoid these through certain actions or alleviate them when occurring is unclear (to me), but at least Intellectually, it theoretically makes sense to me why these kinds of Nerve Related Cramps occur. Is the ability to avoid these cramps while exercising Fitness?
The "Other" type of cramping is the type that's more of an enigma to me. And I don't even know if "cramp" is the correct word or terminology I should be using... I'll call it "Micro-Tear Cramping" until someone here tells me what it should be called. This is the kind that I think the ultra-runners get when doing courses with huge elevation changes. Most people blame it on the eccentric contractions that occur during downhill running. This is the type that I believe I got at IMFL (perfectly flat course) in 2012 and more recently in IMWis last month (only one short but steepish uphill/downhill section per loop). In Wisconsin, I had a conservative bike (so I thought - 1.05VI at 0.65IF for ~5:28 and 234TSS), and "easily" ran the first 13.1 miles of the run with an avg HR of 139 (max of 144 that was only for a few seconds before it came down to ~140 or so). I also went steady up Observatory hill and was cautious going down it, but was careful not to be "braking". So during Wisconsin, I felt "great" (or as great as you could feel 2/3 of the way through an IM marathon) and was not experiencing any of the "Central Governor" effects from the first section. I was clear headed, had color in my face, was happy, and didn't feel the overall "molasses" feeling at all. But my quads felt like they were on the verge of cramping with every step. In Vineman in 2016 (with 3 long steep downhills) and in Cozumel (completely flat) in 2014, I pushed this feeling over the edge and it literally turned into ice picks jammed into my quads for the remainder of the run effectively destroying any hope of run form or speed regardless of my brain's will. Why does this happen and how can it be avoided? Is "not being tired or exhausted" but but slowing down anyways to avoid ice picks from being shoved into your quads "Lack of Fitness"? Can you train to get more of this type of fitness and if so, how?
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My wife, Jess, calls being able to actually sit on a tri bike in an aero position for long periods of time "Positional Fitness". Someone can have strong legs and a great cardiovascular system, but if they're forced by their aches and pains into sitting up in the wind for the last ~40 miles of an Ironman bike leg, then I believe they have a lack of "Positional Fitness" and this will cause back spasms or other things that will also crush your run... I also think this gets exacerbated in cold weather, rain, extreme heat/humidity and most importantly wind. I think if you are holding onto your bike with clenched muscles for hours and hours of crosswind surges or headwinds (Kona anyone?), that it drains you a lot more than the same NP on a cool fall day with no wind. Is that also positional fitness or something else?
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What about "Nutritional Fitness"??? How many times have you heard of someone having GI distress during the bike or run of an Ironman which slows them WAY down? Often practicing (training) race day nutrition for months and months can either train you to handle a certain type/amount of nutrition, or help you figure out what type/amount of nutritional strategy you should employ during your race. This can be trained. But very smart and nutritionally trained athletes still magically have GI issues during a race when they never did during training. Is this fitness? Do you believe it can be trained/improved?
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I don't care if you're training for your 1st 70.3 or your 16th Ironman, I'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, comments on any of the above or any of the million other things I didn't already pose in the already long post above...
What Say You EN? What is Ironman Fitness and how do I get more of it?
Comments
@John Withrow I’d like to address one of these issues, that of “cramping” or “micro tear cramping.” This is something I’ve experienced in marathons or marathon distance (Ironman) races. The closest explanation I’ve ever heard to what I think I’m experiencing is what Shawn Beardon calls “neuromuscular fatigue” in his Science of Ultra podcasts. What happens to me is that the muscles around my hips and knees start to spasm—only way I can describe it—at some point during the race, usually between mile 16-22, making it almost impossible for me to run. I don’t feel like I’m lacking aerobic fitness or nutrition/calories. I just can’t get my muscles to fire and to produce the force I need to run. My legs will literally buckle and I’m in danger of falling on my face. The more downhill running in the race, the worse it’s likely to be. The more long runs I am able to do in training—not necessarily more total mileage, just more longer runs—the better I seem to be able to handle this, but it’s very hard for me to reproduce the same conditions in training, no matter how hard I train, that happen to me in a race. It doesn’t help that I usually end up with a running injury, probably because I’m often running faster than I need to be in training. This leads to this constant cycle of injury and rebuilding that I’m almost never able to get enough mileage on my legs to pull off a consistent Ironman or marathon run. Very frustrating. This year, I plan to stick to two hours of leg strength work a week, and to do all my mileage at TRP/Marathon pace, and extend that pace out longer and longer until I can do 16-18 mi runs (maybe 20-22 mi) holding that pace consistently. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. So this year I am doing something different. We’ll see how it goes. Thanks for this thread. I’ll be interested in what others have to contribute.
While "Fitness" is a very general term, what I read in the Original Post is : "What can @John Withrow do over the next year and on race day @ the Big Dance to ensure the best possible performance without blowing up on the run?" I'm going to make two assumptions (which I know to be true), that (a) John is going to be superbly well-trained at race-specific fitness, specifically 5 hour power on the bike, and the ability to run @ TRP *effort* level for two hours or more after a 5-6 hour bike, and (b) John has an extraordinary capacity to push himself beyond his physical capability on race day. Unfortunately, these two traits will be in competition with each other, which results in sub-par race result.
The first thing I would suggest is working over the winter on leg strength...squats, specifically (leg extensions and lunges are more dangerous the older we get, risking damage within the knee joint). This is aimed at reducing the negative impact of those eccentric downhill contractions. Second, run fast at least 2 x a week in Oct-Feb. Say, a 5K race, or a set of intervals @ 5-10K pace on the track, with a total work time of 20-45 minutes doing 200s-2000s. No matter how lean you get, you've still got a lot of kg to carry around that 26.2 mile course.
Second, when you start doing 6-7 hour bricks, make sure there are some downhill segments on the run (tough in MN?). Use that will power to attempt to generate that "cramping" sensation, and experiment with Hot Shot, Pickle juice, whatever strikes your fancy to see what improves that.
Third, you've become very adept at running at your TRP effort level. You should try to get equally adept at internalizing what other effort levels feel like: Stoopid Slow, Long Run Pace, Marathon Pace, Half Marathon Pace, 10K Pace, 5K, and Mile. Do this not by entering all those races (although at least 2 HMs, 2-3 10 K, and a few 5Ks would not hurt this project). The best place to do it, though, is during training. Use one of the calculators out there to find out what your paces are (gotta do at least one 5k to get the time to plug into a calculator), and spend a workout each week locking those in. There are many plans available as guides about how to fit that into a progressive 3-4 month plan (see the end of the 2nd paragraph above).
Fourth, on race day, you will of course follow the conservative route on the bike course, in terms of pacing, steadiness, and sufficient hydration. Then, on the run, follow my "Run An Even Split IM Marathon Plan" ©, which I'm sure you've seen before. Keep steadily increasing your RPE through the course of the run, starting out with the absolute necessity of going Stoopid Slow along the Ali'i out-n-back, easy up Palani, then settle into Marathon Pace to the Energy lab, ramping up to HM thru the lab, ramping again to 10K RPE. By the time you hit the top of Mark-n-Dave hill, you should be ready to be feeling like it's a 5k, and the final run down Hualalai onto Ali'i is where you can either go into that Zombie Zone, a=or back off and just soak in the crowd.
Remember, this is not about running at an increasingly faster pace, it's about running at an increasingly harder effort level. If you are properly trained, your legs at the end of the bike will feel trashed, but you will be able to start the run Stoopid Slowly. Again, if you are properly trained, your legs, if you choose to pay attention to them, will feel increasingly trashed. But because you build the leg strength from weights and running fast, and because you are managing your effort level progressively, you can safely follow the Jens Voight Protocol, and simply say, "Shut Up, Legs!" My own strategy is to get into a mindset where, Yeah, those legs feel like crap, but it really doesn;t matter, 'cause I now how to manage it thru top the end.
Bottom line, I'm of the opinion your cramping issues are a result of the combo of "weak" legs, a low intuitive sense of the various RPEs of all the running paces, and an over-eagerness to push too hard too soon on both the bike and the run. I also think that you saw the light in Madison, and now will be a lot better at pacing the next one.
@John Withrow
I agree with @Al Truscott on all points but one specifically. I have been doing a lot of research lately since I've signed up for my first Ultratrail 100KM and common theme is strength. Not only do you need to be "FIT" (in every way your described), but you must also be STRONG, and weight training is essential. I would imagine that strong legs would keep the "ice picks" away for longer.
My 2 cents :)
@John Withrow I like where you are going with this!
@Al Truscott Sage advice as always. Thank you for always being so thoughtful and prescient of where my head was even if I wasn't meaning this thread to be about me...
For a reference point on my current plan of attack, I've started 2 days a week Masters Swim, to try to setup my day better. I'm likely getting a new bike, but have a pre-fit scheduled with the local Bike Fit Guru that has had glowing reviews from every single person within 100 miles of here that knows anything about bikes or triathlon... I'm going to see if I can tweak my current fit to be a little less quad dominant on my bike (if that is possible). I've also started regular depth drops and box jumps and am focusing my once weekly Personal Training sessions on more eccentric loading of my quads (in addition to keeping on hammering my glutes and core). And I will be running many more hills (in the context of where I live anyways) and will also do more local shorter faster running races and specific speed work interval workouts for my run as well. I still have ~53 weeks to try to address this weakness and purge it from my body!
Fantastic article linked, although Ultra site , correlates very well to Ironman since its a very long day ending in the run.
Definitely a wide range of topics, theories, ideas in this thread, with possible very different directions depending on the individual , experienced vs. beginner , etc.
Even though all those categories of fitness are very important. All of these categories of fitness can go under, what I will call educational fitness , specially for the beginner Ironman athlete. Even the Central Governor theory has its limits for everybody.
Educational Fitness- Having the knowledge to plan and execute, to the best of our physical , nutritional, and central governor abilities, will trump all.
For you specifically @John Withrow I can think of 3 ways to address your late run fatigue through training.
1.Structure long runs similar to the way you like to structure your long bike. Run the first 75% at or below RP, then run the last 25% above RP. On a 2hr run this gives you 90 min of just biding your time, depleting the body and mind just a bit, then a mere 30 minutes of work. Its just classic negative split with a twist, the idea is slower than normal for the first 75% then much faster for the final 25%. Replicates a much longer run, but recovery from is easier since only short amount of real work. Definitely in the specificity phase.
2.I know you like back to back bikes on the weekends, but your bike doesnt need anywork, go back to a more traditional longrun day after a long bike day, with the long run structure above. Maybe for your last 8-10 weeks out you can do a 4 week block of back to back bikes, then a 4 week block longbike/longrun. My best big weekend is a fullswim, fullbike, 1hr brick run on Saturday, then 2hr(structured as above) run Sunday am and 1hr run Sunday afternoon. This gets you lots of running on tired legs in a little over 24hrs.
3.For a Race Rehearsal try a full Metric Ironman. This day is very similar in length to a normal RR but much more run heavy. Swim and Bike harder than IM pace since they are shorter, run as #1 suggestion. These are very hard, I have done 2 , cracked in the heat on the run at 11 miles and DNF'ed, completed the 2nd try, and the jury is out for me on how much they may have helped. But one thing is for sure it replicates late day race/running. This is a good Saturday workout followed by a 3hr ABP if able ride Sunday
Cramps- Maybe some of the trying to replicate late day running will trigger the cramp issue? I have only suffered cramps in the calves in the swim which is not related. However one time in KONA I did feel some very weird electrical type pulses in my quads. No ideas to address cramps.
Here is my point of view where I can say that this year was a year where I pushed a bit the fitness envelopp. IMO, I believe our body is fit and can make us go through long day, but also the mind has a lot to play. How I think the mind gets train for these long days are when we do back 2 back hard session.
When I finished LP, I rested 2 weeks and had 4 weeks before my first ultra - 50 mile. I never had a week of over 50 mile run. I know I had the physical fitness but wasnt sure about the mind fitness of a 12-13 hrs day run. So what worked I believe for me was to do 3X2 days long day, which was basically being alone in the woods for a 6hrs run/hike - 60k day and the day after go for another 20. The next week, I knew what was coming so I decided to play a trick to my mind by doing the 20k first and then 60k after.
All this helped me finish the ultra, not with the result I wanted but still finish.. and was able to perform relatively well to another ultra 8 days after (that wasnt planned)
Next year I plan to do the same but alternate with nights & days sessions, as we know, nights are tuff on the brain.
In the end, for me I know its the brain that gives up first because when it gives I keep pushing, I know the body hurts but not to the point where everything shutdowns.
As for cramps, cant comment - I never get cramps except when I get out of the swimming pool.