New Running shoes - change it up or stick with ole' reliable?
I got on the bandwagon and tried out Hoka's a few years ago (bondi 2 or 3) and never looked back. I tried out two other types of Hoka's and didn't like them. The Bondi has always felt right, as I say to my 50ish YO friends, "it's shoes for guys like us."
I am rebooting my Tri career & have rebuilt a run base of 20MPW, I am embarking on a serious build that will take me to the mid to hi 40s per week by next June & July before peaking for IMLP.
This is to be a training shoe only as I've gotten a few pairs of Vapormax Vaporfly 4%s for races and will try them out accordingly before racing in them.
The question is that since the Bondi has evolved (here's a good review on the version 6 shoe) I am hoping one of the shoe geeks around here would chime in with potential alternatives to the Bondi for me to try out for a well cushioned daily trainer. Keep in mind I am also embarking on a run streak that will at least take me from now until IMLP in Late July.
Thanks all!
Comments
I've been running on the Hoka Cavu, and the Saucony Kinvara. They both feel the same to me about at about 8 Oz compared to the Bondi 10+, both have the same 4 mm drop, and they cost about 25% less. Since I go thru at least 3 pairs a year, that matters to me.
If you like running on marshmellows, stick with the Bondi. But you are light enough that a more neutral shoe (in terms of cushioning) might feel just as good and be less taxing when swinging thru.
@scott dinhofer As you know, I'm a Hoka Fanboy! I've literally had every model they made for years, then lost my breath trying to keep up in recent years. I settled in on the Bondi's (in Wide) for my slow or easy days and the Clifton 4's (Wide) for all other runs. But frankly, the newer Bondi's and the newer Cliftons just don't feel as "Soft and Squishy" as the Hoka's of old. I still have my ~6yr old pair of Hoka Bondi Speed S2 (they're a hideous looking orange and pinkish) that I refuse to get rid of because if I ever really need something soft I break them out (they probably have ~400-500 miles on them). And my "walking around shoes" are my giant looking Mafate 3 which are easily 3x as soft as my newer Bondis...
I think Hoka has gone away from what made them the niche "pillowy Soft" Ultra Running shoes (after Deckers bought them in 2013) and became more mainstream and racey racey with things like the Mach and the Cavu and making the Cliftons heavier and less soft at the same time and kept the Bondis with a nice big platform, but also took some of the "squish" out of them. As a Capitalist, I fully understand because they are likely selling 10x as many shoes as they were in 2012.
With all that said, I will still run in my Cliftons and I will still run in my Bondis... But I find myself running in them less and less these days. I will race in my Vaporfly 4% (please don't embarrass yourself by calling your new $250 shoes Vapormax 4%)... But I have always wanted MORE drop than what the Hokas would ever give me (that was my single complaint about them for years and years). I have been doing most of my training runs now in my Nike Zoom Fly's (Flyknit version). They're $136 after our EN discount at runningwarehouse.com, so they're not cheap, but way cheaper than the VF and will likely last ~3x as long. These shoes have a big drop (10mm) and at 8.4 oz are much lighter than your Bondi's and even ~1 oz lighter than the Clifton. And more importantly, they have that "Squishy soft" feeling that the Hoka's used to have. And they have the insole spring recoil thing similar to the VF. I really like them. "If" you are okay with more drop (which I was actually seeking out), then I think they're worth at least trying.
@John Withrow I tried the Bondi and Clifton Wides, they fit , but still did not work out for me... I have a pair of the Pegasus Turbo and find the toebox too narrow and low. What is your thoughts on width/toebox on the Vaporfly and ZoomFly Flyknit versions?
I like rotating through different shoes for almost every run. That might just be a different pair of the same model, or different models all together. I have convinced myself that this is better for your joints and form to not just have the same exact repetitive pattern on every single step of every single run. I don't know if this avoids repetitive use injury or not, but it's just what I do. So I have a couple pairs of the Clifton 4's (wide) and a pair of the Bondi 5's (wide) and occasionally use my old Bondi Speed S2, and sometimes my old Cilfton 3's... And now I am mixing in the 3 Nike Shoes...
So I also have the Pegasus Turbo you mentioned and am kind of "meh" on that shoe. I don't hate it but don't love it, It just doesn't feel as soft as the VF or the ZoomFly Flyknit and it cost more $$ than the ZoomFly FK which doesn't make any sense to me. Honestly, I'd pay more for the ZoomFly FK and won't be buying another pair of the Pegasus Turbo (but I definitely will be looking for a deal on another pair of the ZoomFly).
The VF4% seemed a bit narrow when I first put them on and walked around my house, but the upper is so thin and flexible that they just disappear when you start running (kind of like wearing a super thin slipper). The ZoomFly Flyknit felt a bit narrow at first as well (it's always the outside of my big toe that hits on narrow shoes for me). The first time I put the ZoomFly on I thought it was going to be a problem because they fit just like the Vaporfly, but the Flyknit material is denser and slightly less flexible. It seemed like it "might" be an issue after my first short run. On all subsequent runs, I tied the top of the laces near my ankle a bit more snugly than normal (they have a weird lace up pattern over top of the Flyknit slipper-like upper) and I haven't noticed them on any run since. If you NEED a wide toebox, particularly for the edge of your big toe, the VF could still work (they do for me), but I have not tried running in my brand new VF4% Flyknit yet.
As a baseline, after switching to the Clifton 4 "Wide" for a while (I'm on my 3rd or 4th pair) I cannot even run in any of my older Clifton 3's anymore because they didn't make those in a "Wide" and every time I have tried running in them recently I get a crazy blister on my big toe. I have never gotten a blister with either the VF or with the ZoomFly. Again, I can only run in the "Wide" versions of the Hoka's now... But, I really like running in the ZoomFly and Definitely LOVE the VF4%. YMMV.
Thanks JW sounds like zoom fly worth a try.
maybe one of you Hoka boys can answer this for me. I have one (no pun intended) reservation with trying Hokas. Years ago I rolled my ankle while running. It was something stupid and I don't even remember what it was... tripped on a crack, fell of the curve, etc. But it took forever for itto heal. I have always thought to myself, shit if I roll an ankle in Hokas, my ankle could snap and the bone would stick right out of my leg. I like to be lower to the ground.
Am I crazy or is there any validation to my fears?
@Patrick Large The short answer is that you are crazy.
The long answer is that some of the older models (Circa 2013 or 2014) I referenced above (Bondi Speed S2 and Mafate 3) used to feel like you were standing on high soft platforms that might be unstable (probably where your fear resonated from). But that isn't really true of any of the newer models (Circa 2017 and 2018) mentioned in this thread. The Mach and the Cavu (that @Al Truscott wears) are very similar in feel/style to more traditional trainers or racing flats (sort of). The Cliftons are light-ish and you don't feel like you're standing high on them (not to me anyways). The Bondi are the biggest of the bunch, but they have a very broad sole and to me feel the most secure under foot of any of them even though they technically have the most cushion. And for trails, the Challenger ATR and the Speedgoats (which are more narrow) feel every bit as stable as any other trail shoe. If you're on a trail and roll your ankle on a loose rock or twisted root, that can happen in any shoe. Same on the road if you hit a crack or a curb... But I don't think this newer era of Hoka's makes that any more likely than any other shoe (within reason anyways).
I do have a few pairs of Bondis from past "stocking up", but I use the Challengers for all my running now, on and off road.
I'll also agree with an earlier statement that says the new ones just don't feel as "squishy". The challengers still feel way squishy to me, which my big dood frame definitely appreciates!