This is all super duper awesome...thanks everyone!!
@tim cronk I have to confess that the math specifics are over my pay grade, but How we are discussing these tools does relate to how I think about a year.
In the Winter, we are trying to raise your FTP through Threshold work and VO2 work ...with an eye towards our 20' test as we prize the value of the intensity that we can't do IN season.
But we've long known that the 20' power isn't an adequate reflection of How we should pace an IM or a HIM. Instead we look to longer efforts that are more specific.
Case in point, 5k test in the OS but 13.1 to exit.
So to me, FTP is a TOOL and I use it different ways Depending upon what my season goal is. I think the 20' test is a great "normalizer" as 20' is long enough to fit "in the middle" of all my efforts...I should be above that number in the winter and (hopefully!) close to it in season...even though I have different training focuses.
So, like horseshoes and hand grendades,..good enuff.
What's more interesting To me is the FRC capacity from the mFTP section as it show what I am NOT working on. Or rather, what could use more work. And as I "fill in those gaps" it makes me stronger overall. As a very focused athlete in one sport / event distance, I was in a rut. Using the FRC approach allowed me to really tap into some higher level efforts that yielded incredible gains. I liked the process as it gave me targets I should be able to hit...not just made up ones.
TBH, @Rich Stanbaugh Really helped this whole evolution and no way I could have done it without him.
Moving forward, I expect advanced athletes to use more of this approach, but not ALL YEAR LONG. Only when it matters....that's where my head is at as i contemplate the new FULL and HALF plans, and I need to connect with Peg Leg Rich....
@tim cronk you are absolute spot on. The WKO4 model is largely based off of the CP model. The CP model had two big gaps... what happens at very short durations and what happens at large durations. Coggan tried to improve it (improved it) by addressing durations from one complete pedal revolution to as long as you want to ride.
>> what does a baby FRC of 7.8 mean for a guy like me who does ride an IM at .75?
Without looking at your data, I would say:
1.) You probably have never tried to get maximal efforts in the short durations, so the model's prediction of FRC is wrong / has a large error component.
2.) Not only that - who knows how accurate the model you are using is at estimating FTP and therefore what is the real IF??? Garbage in - Garbage out.
3.) I will bet money that working the lower durations will give you a bump in strength over all durations.
Here is another very recent article from TP on FTP. While I think it does a great job explaining some of the above my head physiology , its answer is "New FTP testing Protocols" Ya gotta read them... Who will do those? Simplification through complexity...
In simplest terms, your functional threshold power, or FTP, is the maximum power you can maintain through an hour’s effort without fatiguing.
But it’s actually much more complicated.
The word “threshold” has become synonymous with the word “confusion” for many athletes. To make it worse, there are several other terms for the same thing: anaerobic threshold (AT), lactate threshold (LT), maximal lactate steady state (MLSS), and onset of blood lactate (OBLA). I’ll use the term lactate threshold (LT) for my explanation.
Comments
This is all super duper awesome...thanks everyone!!
@tim cronk I have to confess that the math specifics are over my pay grade, but How we are discussing these tools does relate to how I think about a year.
In the Winter, we are trying to raise your FTP through Threshold work and VO2 work ...with an eye towards our 20' test as we prize the value of the intensity that we can't do IN season.
But we've long known that the 20' power isn't an adequate reflection of How we should pace an IM or a HIM. Instead we look to longer efforts that are more specific.
Case in point, 5k test in the OS but 13.1 to exit.
So to me, FTP is a TOOL and I use it different ways Depending upon what my season goal is. I think the 20' test is a great "normalizer" as 20' is long enough to fit "in the middle" of all my efforts...I should be above that number in the winter and (hopefully!) close to it in season...even though I have different training focuses.
So, like horseshoes and hand grendades,..good enuff.
What's more interesting To me is the FRC capacity from the mFTP section as it show what I am NOT working on. Or rather, what could use more work. And as I "fill in those gaps" it makes me stronger overall. As a very focused athlete in one sport / event distance, I was in a rut. Using the FRC approach allowed me to really tap into some higher level efforts that yielded incredible gains. I liked the process as it gave me targets I should be able to hit...not just made up ones.
TBH, @Rich Stanbaugh Really helped this whole evolution and no way I could have done it without him.
Moving forward, I expect advanced athletes to use more of this approach, but not ALL YEAR LONG. Only when it matters....that's where my head is at as i contemplate the new FULL and HALF plans, and I need to connect with Peg Leg Rich....
Hope that helps!
~ Coach P
@tim cronk you are absolute spot on. The WKO4 model is largely based off of the CP model. The CP model had two big gaps... what happens at very short durations and what happens at large durations. Coggan tried to improve it (improved it) by addressing durations from one complete pedal revolution to as long as you want to ride.
>> what does a baby FRC of 7.8 mean for a guy like me who does ride an IM at .75?
Without looking at your data, I would say:
1.) You probably have never tried to get maximal efforts in the short durations, so the model's prediction of FRC is wrong / has a large error component.
2.) Not only that - who knows how accurate the model you are using is at estimating FTP and therefore what is the real IF??? Garbage in - Garbage out.
3.) I will bet money that working the lower durations will give you a bump in strength over all durations.
4.) You are too damed strong anyway... !!!
Here is another very recent article from TP on FTP. While I think it does a great job explaining some of the above my head physiology , its answer is "New FTP testing Protocols" Ya gotta read them... Who will do those? Simplification through complexity...
And to keep the "confusion" (a word actually used in the article) going. Hunter Allen is still defining FTP as 1hr.
https://shoppeaks.com/hunter-allen-ftp-test/
So what exactly is FTP?
Do you want the short answer or the long answer?
In simplest terms, your functional threshold power, or FTP, is the maximum power you can maintain through an hour’s effort without fatiguing.
But it’s actually much more complicated.
The word “threshold” has become synonymous with the word “confusion” for many athletes. To make it worse, there are several other terms for the same thing: anaerobic threshold (AT), lactate threshold (LT), maximal lactate steady state (MLSS), and onset of blood lactate (OBLA). I’ll use the term lactate threshold (LT) for my explanation.
Is Vo2 max and VLaMAX more important and what is their impact on training for HIM/IM?
check out this podcast
https://www.velonews.com/2019/02/training/fast-talk-ep-67-what-is-vlamax-with-sebastian-weber_483349