perfect...how are you recovering from those sessions...they are beefy. Your long work still looks okay, just want to make sure you feel like you can hit these hard sessions (for now).
Starting IM program. My daughter flew back to Australia yesterday so I can get serious now. I have a few weeks of running 30 miles per week with that 13.3 in Central Park last week
the only long bike was 5 hours on Zwift Norseman (thanks Steve Boer and KMF for that torture) but I need to get outside
I want to do a long aerobic 8hour ride but also need a plan to accomplish the challenge rides
Thanks for checking in. Macro stuff to think about, and we can talk to sort it out.
1. Like the long swims…we want one more swim a week (esp OWS if available), for a total between 10 and 12k. Ideally you are up to 15k by mid Sept into OCT, with one peak week at 20 (week 19) as taper starts.
8/12: 10k
8/19: 12k
8/26: 12k
9/2: 10k
9/9: 13k
9/16: 15k
9/23: 15k
9/30: 20k
2. I am not worries about your run, or the long run, but we do need to build that up. Targets would be:
8/12: 32
8/19: 36
8/26: 40
9/2: 30
9/9: 40
9/16: 40
9/23: 40
9/30: 30
3. The bike is really about early volume at this point. Challenge ride is this week or next. Target is 200 miles or 10 hours, whatever comes first. Beyond that, we need to get you close to 200 miles per week. I see that as:
1x Zwift one hour Race + Steady state (40 to 50 miles)
1x Long Ride Outside: 4 to 5 hour range
1x Cruise and Crush on Sunday 2.5 hours
1x or 2x warm up rides before run workouts. These would be at long run HR (there’s a w/kg associated with it but you’ll need to focus in on it).
Let me know what you are thinking for AUG as well as what your KONA goals are so we can plan…
I did 161miles on Saturday about 18mph and .6IF pretty steady solo ride on a hot and humid day. Got in 32 miles running last week and 10 k meters swim. I am having some stiffness and a little soreness in the right shoulder shoulder again and I have already returned to my PT and chiro. The lat and other posterior shoulder muscles are sore from the pool and stretch cord work which is causing tendon issues anteriorly. I have home PT and rolling work.
I may do my split run on Wednesday and then I can do ABP this Sunday but the next couple of weeks have long run on Sunday. Should I be looking for other days if I can?
Yes, I will map out Best Buy expert for you. Please stay tuned. Right now the training plans for 2019 2020 have a focus on harder weekday work with more aerobic weekend riding. IIRC You’re billed for your early race this season how do using the older plans is the new plans were not ready yet.
If you complete the weekDay work out properly and do the steady long ride on Saturday you should be pretty trashed without the ABP. If you insisted on ABP in addition to the other two interval sessions then we would have to really reduce the Saturday.
A compromise here might be Saturday hang on ride followed by aerobic time for your five hours. Or you could reduce Saturday’s ride to three hours, and do 90 minutes of the ABP on Sunday. Both would have Brick runs in the long run will be on Thursday instead.
Regarding your shoulder, can you drop the cords and the paddle work for right now? Maybe for a week and see if that helps reduce the load of it?
1 the recommendations in the above post for 200 miles bike as 1 long ride 1 FTP ,1-2 ez ,and 1 cruise and crush is different then the EN IM Plan which is why I why confused.
2 no swimming for another 10 days at least. right shoulder is not improving.
3 I will add an ez bike and an ez short run(`4 miles) if i have time and feeling up to it.
Didn't mean to hassle you about the kona shirts. I am getting excited for Kona but nervous because of the shoulder and the heat/humidity.
@Robert Sabo - Don't let the shoulder stress you out, just manage it. If you were PT for the next six weeks, you could still DO the IM swim. And good god you are fit, so we need to find a new space for your lizard brain to focus. PT it up and really do your best to rest it.
The bike options sound great, and honestly, the more biking you can do the better (if you don't have swims, more bike time is an easy substitute if you are looking for one).
I love the 40 mpw target Right now...it's where you want to be. Only 10% of your miles need to be FAST, the rest should be than long run pace With a negative split to goal race page effort by the end.
You've felt the humidity before, as a veteran, it's really racing smart that matters and that's what the Team is for:
You will hydrate like a rock star especially in the first 60 minutes of Kona (I do 3 bottles).
You will get wet with water at all aid stations and carry water on way back to repeat on hills...you goal on the way back is a steady HR. (power out / hr back if you will).
The first 8 miles are CRITICAL to keep core body temps down...so wet and smart pacing...once you are on the QueenK you can begin to get to work!
And lots of external salt (pills and gatorlytes) so you can solve "too much fluid" gut issues!
Finally, below is your BBS plan for six hours per your request. It's important to note that BBS is not as accurate on open coast courses, but it's close So my guess is you'll need to add 10 more watts to the uphill to HAWI and the last 35 miles (rolling and headwinds), but given your fitness this should really be a cruise session. We can talk about if you want to change anything, but here are the basic parameters.
I just wanted to know how easy I could ride and still go sub 6 hours on that course. It seems like 136W would be pretty easy and with the heat wouldn't want to target anything over 160W anyway. I'd bet the decreased time for another 10 W would only be a minute or two. Even if it was 5 minutes it would not be worth the negative effect on the run.
Met with sports med doctor and he gave me a choice of injection now or 2 and a half weeks before the the race. He was wary of doing both due to risk of tendon tear from multiple injections so I am going to wait till about 10 day before I leave for Hawaii if I need it. I will just do PT and stay out of the pool till it starts feeling better.
17 mile run yesterday and obviously had heavy legs this AM and failed the SST wko. I just rode Zone 1. easy run tonight. Saturday I plan to ride 80 slightly harder then usual long ride with a group of guys and Sunday CnC or ABP.
@Robert Sabo I agree. Those watts are SUPER easy. The hard part about kona is that the first 60 to 90 minutes is "free" and then it gets a bit harder on the hills...and the return sucks. I would advise you to bike a bit more aggressively on the way outbound as the later you hit the turn around the stronger the winds and heat will be. For example maybe "normal" IM watts to HAWI, then we drop 10% for miles 60 to 85, then another 10% for the final 30 into town (save for a few hills). Thoughts on that?
Your bike is strong and the run is great. Ride strong, only push the run when you feel it. At this point your fatigue is too high to make it something useful if you go too hard.
I agree on waiting until departure For Le Shot. I would get it done anyway, as you have nothing to lose...it works or it doesn't. You can do core strength stuff for now just to keep some fitness there.
Cortisone on Friday and so far no change. Will have part two this week from the front of shoulder.
Continuing the PT
42 miles Run last week with 16 on Sunday with Carl A felt good. Average 7:30’s
Saturday long ride Saturday was awesome solo ride 114 miles at 20 mph. Some @townline” sprints and built through the ride with strong finish into wind for the finish. .71 IF and brick run was hot and sunny and humid and I felt good but went to fast. Need to be closer to 8s then 7:30 off the bike.
Thursdy long run I was planning on 20 miles with avg of 7:30s so 2 1/2 hours?
suggestion for long ride on Saturday. The plan describes a ride harder then IM effort. Should I do that but keep it to 4-5 hours?
Feeling pretty good overall. Shoulder is feeling good too.
Run 42 miles again. 20 mile run on Thursday went well. Last few were a little tough hills/wind but felt pretty good later in the day and felt good on Friday and ran an easy 4. Brick run on Sunday following my 100 mile bike was really good. Temp was nice and hot and I think I get a good feel on easy pace. Plan pace of 8min/mile plus 15sec aid station breaks till mile 10 top of Palani. Then 8 minute total pace per mile. First 10 miles HR <125 and no exceptions. Second 10 miles <130.
100 miler on Saturday went well. 6 x 30 minutes @ ~180 then finished last hour hard ~190W. I felt like I still had a fair amount of power to expend and still felt good and ran well OTB. My heart rate did go up from IM HR 121 or less up to 127 which I know is too high. I am thinking easy out of town through the admin section. Then work at 170-175 W and then work up the climb to Hawi at 180W. I will work easy down the hill from Hawi not just coast. Then drop to 165W til mile 85 then 155W. HR less then 121 except for the climb to HAWI 130bpm max.
Swam 1100 m on Weds and 1300 on Friday. I plan on swimming 4x this coming week and slowly increase volume and length of swim workouts. The only ache in the shoulder is when I extend it overhead, so I will be careful on kick sets and pushing off the wall. I am back to wearing my Sim bouyancy shorts to make it just a little less stressful.
Really felt like this week was strong work that was really well tolerated. Also slept better last two nights since the cortisone shot.
@Robert Sabo you are doing a great job of walking a fine line between getting fit enough to race and managing the limits of your shoulder. Super impressive.
You have built this crate engine on the bike and the run and it sounds like you have just hit the point where the training load is just right: you can do the study work and still be able to recover for the following day and even more quality sessions later in the week. That’s a fantastic sign.
To be honest, the swim in Hawaii is just challenging and awkward and never the swim that anyone wanted, so I don’t think you have anything to fear there from an expectation standpoint. It’ll just be what it’s going to be.
Don’t think about the bike and one being very linear. Example, it’s OK to push the first 10 miles with those two short Hills in them on the bike because he will then settle down for the next 80 minutes with a tailwind in large to drafting. That’s more than enough time to recover there. Similarly on the run, The Aid station inside transition and the first aid station are important of the turnaround on Alii Dr and mile six which is just about halfway up steady climb. Not every station is to have that much time spent at it but the critical ones do.
Last week 36.1 mile running with 16 mile long run very smooth and no isues.
Bike over 200 miles again. Saturday was a solid 112mile RR with TSS 250 and ~ mile 50-65 tried too push Watts to 180 and finished into strong head wind @155W. Did a brick run 7 miles EASY at 7:50 - 240watts and HR 120 in sun and heat and felt good.
Swam 3 times including 3000m on Sunday pre bike. No issues. Mixing in a little change of speed but nothing too hard. I figure even if I can manage 2minute/100 meter pace which is very easy that would still be a 1:16. So with swells and chop 1:20ish I'll take.
Hawaii Plan
Race plan is up
10/4 arrive short run 3-4 miles
10/5 Saturday short OWS and then 80 mile bike Hapuna-Hawi-Kona and possible 15 min brick
10/6 Sunday Ho'ala swim in AM run from Pine Tree Cafe back to Kona in PM
10/7 Monday short swim short run
10/8 Tuesday OWS and Bike AM Hapuna- Hawi- Hapuna 44 miles
10/9 Wednesday short swim short run possible run in energy lab
10/10 Thursday OWS short and few mile bike for last minute check if safe place to ride and short run
@Robert Sabo I hit your race plan already 👍. I am pumped at how your rest and self-care protocols have worked. Honestly while showing up less than 100% probably is a bummer on some level, it's going to make your race that Much better. I spend 99% of my time trying to slow folks down and in the case of Kona, the repercussions for errors are 10x a normal IM. Can't wait to see you on the island!
Going to be so epic. Hope you are enjoying the wonder. Heads up if you are looking for a nice couples didner the Ulu Ocean Grill does OpenTable reservations and is beautiful on the beach (ask for outside seating when you reserve). Two of our best dinner dates ever there....
Comments
10x30”@375 Watts 150% went fine but the 120% I did 3’ 3’ 2’2’2’ 1’ with 1:1 work rest
perfect...how are you recovering from those sessions...they are beefy. Your long work still looks okay, just want to make sure you feel like you can hit these hard sessions (for now).
~ Coach P
Starting IM program. My daughter flew back to Australia yesterday so I can get serious now. I have a few weeks of running 30 miles per week with that 13.3 in Central Park last week
the only long bike was 5 hours on Zwift Norseman (thanks Steve Boer and KMF for that torture) but I need to get outside
I want to do a long aerobic 8hour ride but also need a plan to accomplish the challenge rides
been swimming 2x week for 8k
guidance please or should I set up a phone call?
Thanks for checking in. Macro stuff to think about, and we can talk to sort it out.
1. Like the long swims…we want one more swim a week (esp OWS if available), for a total between 10 and 12k. Ideally you are up to 15k by mid Sept into OCT, with one peak week at 20 (week 19) as taper starts.
8/12: 10k
8/19: 12k
8/26: 12k
9/2: 10k
9/9: 13k
9/16: 15k
9/23: 15k
9/30: 20k
2. I am not worries about your run, or the long run, but we do need to build that up. Targets would be:
8/12: 32
8/19: 36
8/26: 40
9/2: 30
9/9: 40
9/16: 40
9/23: 40
9/30: 30
3. The bike is really about early volume at this point. Challenge ride is this week or next. Target is 200 miles or 10 hours, whatever comes first. Beyond that, we need to get you close to 200 miles per week. I see that as:
1x Zwift one hour Race + Steady state (40 to 50 miles)
1x Long Ride Outside: 4 to 5 hour range
1x Cruise and Crush on Sunday 2.5 hours
1x or 2x warm up rides before run workouts. These would be at long run HR (there’s a w/kg associated with it but you’ll need to focus in on it).
Let me know what you are thinking for AUG as well as what your KONA goals are so we can plan…
~ Coach P
Can you run best bike split for me and see what wattage at Kona will get me to 6:00. Avg wind. Whatever that means.
Goals for Kona 2019
1:10-1:15 swim
6:00 bike ? Depending
3:29:59 run
total 10:59:59
enjoy the day and enjoy the week
thanks
here till race is work and training no other commitments
Am I going to do 2:00 hour long runs on Sunday? Where would I do ABP? Is 2 hour the longest run?
I did 161miles on Saturday about 18mph and .6IF pretty steady solo ride on a hot and humid day. Got in 32 miles running last week and 10 k meters swim. I am having some stiffness and a little soreness in the right shoulder shoulder again and I have already returned to my PT and chiro. The lat and other posterior shoulder muscles are sore from the pool and stretch cord work which is causing tendon issues anteriorly. I have home PT and rolling work.
I may do my split run on Wednesday and then I can do ABP this Sunday but the next couple of weeks have long run on Sunday. Should I be looking for other days if I can?
Yes, I will map out Best Buy expert for you. Please stay tuned. Right now the training plans for 2019 2020 have a focus on harder weekday work with more aerobic weekend riding. IIRC You’re billed for your early race this season how do using the older plans is the new plans were not ready yet.
If you complete the weekDay work out properly and do the steady long ride on Saturday you should be pretty trashed without the ABP. If you insisted on ABP in addition to the other two interval sessions then we would have to really reduce the Saturday.
A compromise here might be Saturday hang on ride followed by aerobic time for your five hours. Or you could reduce Saturday’s ride to three hours, and do 90 minutes of the ABP on Sunday. Both would have Brick runs in the long run will be on Thursday instead.
Regarding your shoulder, can you drop the cords and the paddle work for right now? Maybe for a week and see if that helps reduce the load of it?
1 the recommendations in the above post for 200 miles bike as 1 long ride 1 FTP ,1-2 ez ,and 1 cruise and crush is different then the EN IM Plan which is why I why confused.
2 no swimming for another 10 days at least. right shoulder is not improving.
3 I will add an ez bike and an ez short run(`4 miles) if i have time and feeling up to it.
Didn't mean to hassle you about the kona shirts. I am getting excited for Kona but nervous because of the shoulder and the heat/humidity.
Week summary
Swim on hold
plan for next week PT and Chiro at least once and continue home care
Bike 200+ miles the 100 mile ride had a strong last 45 minutes at 200 Watts
hit bike interval work during week
next week thinking about group ride for 80-85 at slightly harder effort
Run 36 miles with split run 10+10 and interval day of 5 x 1/2 mile
next week long run 2hours and total 40miles
@Robert Sabo - Don't let the shoulder stress you out, just manage it. If you were PT for the next six weeks, you could still DO the IM swim. And good god you are fit, so we need to find a new space for your lizard brain to focus. PT it up and really do your best to rest it.
The bike options sound great, and honestly, the more biking you can do the better (if you don't have swims, more bike time is an easy substitute if you are looking for one).
I love the 40 mpw target Right now...it's where you want to be. Only 10% of your miles need to be FAST, the rest should be than long run pace With a negative split to goal race page effort by the end.
You've felt the humidity before, as a veteran, it's really racing smart that matters and that's what the Team is for:
Finally, below is your BBS plan for six hours per your request. It's important to note that BBS is not as accurate on open coast courses, but it's close So my guess is you'll need to add 10 more watts to the uphill to HAWI and the last 35 miles (rolling and headwinds), but given your fitness this should really be a cruise session. We can talk about if you want to change anything, but here are the basic parameters.
I just wanted to know how easy I could ride and still go sub 6 hours on that course. It seems like 136W would be pretty easy and with the heat wouldn't want to target anything over 160W anyway. I'd bet the decreased time for another 10 W would only be a minute or two. Even if it was 5 minutes it would not be worth the negative effect on the run.
Met with sports med doctor and he gave me a choice of injection now or 2 and a half weeks before the the race. He was wary of doing both due to risk of tendon tear from multiple injections so I am going to wait till about 10 day before I leave for Hawaii if I need it. I will just do PT and stay out of the pool till it starts feeling better.
17 mile run yesterday and obviously had heavy legs this AM and failed the SST wko. I just rode Zone 1. easy run tonight. Saturday I plan to ride 80 slightly harder then usual long ride with a group of guys and Sunday CnC or ABP.
Rode FFT on Friday
Saturday group ride 91 miles in about 4:20 moving time. .80 IF Sunday CnC with warmup and cool down went over 70 k for 200+ miles for the week
Saturday evening run in boardwalk felt good and threw in some tempo 6:30ish for 4 miles
Sunday easy brick to reach 40 miles
Doing daily shoulder PT home exercises to strengthen and activate the small muscles that will keep better position of the cuff. Not ready to swim yet.
@Robert Sabo I agree. Those watts are SUPER easy. The hard part about kona is that the first 60 to 90 minutes is "free" and then it gets a bit harder on the hills...and the return sucks. I would advise you to bike a bit more aggressively on the way outbound as the later you hit the turn around the stronger the winds and heat will be. For example maybe "normal" IM watts to HAWI, then we drop 10% for miles 60 to 85, then another 10% for the final 30 into town (save for a few hills). Thoughts on that?
Your bike is strong and the run is great. Ride strong, only push the run when you feel it. At this point your fatigue is too high to make it something useful if you go too hard.
I agree on waiting until departure For Le Shot. I would get it done anyway, as you have nothing to lose...it works or it doesn't. You can do core strength stuff for now just to keep some fitness there.
How is your nutrition plan?
~ Coach P
Cortisone on Friday and so far no change. Will have part two this week from the front of shoulder.
Continuing the PT
42 miles Run last week with 16 on Sunday with Carl A felt good. Average 7:30’s
Saturday long ride Saturday was awesome solo ride 114 miles at 20 mph. Some @townline” sprints and built through the ride with strong finish into wind for the finish. .71 IF and brick run was hot and sunny and humid and I felt good but went to fast. Need to be closer to 8s then 7:30 off the bike.
Thursdy long run I was planning on 20 miles with avg of 7:30s so 2 1/2 hours?
suggestion for long ride on Saturday. The plan describes a ride harder then IM effort. Should I do that but keep it to 4-5 hours?
Feeling pretty good overall. Shoulder is feeling good too.
Run 42 miles again. 20 mile run on Thursday went well. Last few were a little tough hills/wind but felt pretty good later in the day and felt good on Friday and ran an easy 4. Brick run on Sunday following my 100 mile bike was really good. Temp was nice and hot and I think I get a good feel on easy pace. Plan pace of 8min/mile plus 15sec aid station breaks till mile 10 top of Palani. Then 8 minute total pace per mile. First 10 miles HR <125 and no exceptions. Second 10 miles <130.
100 miler on Saturday went well. 6 x 30 minutes @ ~180 then finished last hour hard ~190W. I felt like I still had a fair amount of power to expend and still felt good and ran well OTB. My heart rate did go up from IM HR 121 or less up to 127 which I know is too high. I am thinking easy out of town through the admin section. Then work at 170-175 W and then work up the climb to Hawi at 180W. I will work easy down the hill from Hawi not just coast. Then drop to 165W til mile 85 then 155W. HR less then 121 except for the climb to HAWI 130bpm max.
Swam 1100 m on Weds and 1300 on Friday. I plan on swimming 4x this coming week and slowly increase volume and length of swim workouts. The only ache in the shoulder is when I extend it overhead, so I will be careful on kick sets and pushing off the wall. I am back to wearing my Sim bouyancy shorts to make it just a little less stressful.
Really felt like this week was strong work that was really well tolerated. Also slept better last two nights since the cortisone shot.
Getting excited
@Robert Sabo you are doing a great job of walking a fine line between getting fit enough to race and managing the limits of your shoulder. Super impressive.
You have built this crate engine on the bike and the run and it sounds like you have just hit the point where the training load is just right: you can do the study work and still be able to recover for the following day and even more quality sessions later in the week. That’s a fantastic sign.
To be honest, the swim in Hawaii is just challenging and awkward and never the swim that anyone wanted, so I don’t think you have anything to fear there from an expectation standpoint. It’ll just be what it’s going to be.
Don’t think about the bike and one being very linear. Example, it’s OK to push the first 10 miles with those two short Hills in them on the bike because he will then settle down for the next 80 minutes with a tailwind in large to drafting. That’s more than enough time to recover there. Similarly on the run, The Aid station inside transition and the first aid station are important of the turnaround on Alii Dr and mile six which is just about halfway up steady climb. Not every station is to have that much time spent at it but the critical ones do.
Trying to plan Hawaii prerace workouts.
Saturday oct 5 short swim then long bike 70-80 miles
Sunday hoala swim
lots of short runs but should I run the energy lab and or back to town from lab and when?
other bike rides?
i got my condo from EST and they support bike rides to afrim Hapuna and Hapuna to Hawi and Hapuna to Hawi to Kona (70-80) mile
suggestions?
Sure... I suggest:
Sat - Short Swim. Run into town from Pine Tree Cafe (7-ish miles)...you'd need to figure out getting dropped with hydration, etc.
Sun - AM = Hoala Swim, Afternoon = 30' easy Spin to test bike + 15' run.
Mon - Long bike day. Hapuna -> Hawi -> Kona. Optional 15' run off that bike if that's a feasible thing.
Tues - AM Swim 40', PM run of 30'
Wed - Brick = Hour on Highway on Bike, then 30' run.
Thu - 30' Run in AM, 20' run in PM. You could swap Wed/Thu if needed due to family stuff.
Fri - OFF, team breakfast in town, drop bike
Last week 36.1 mile running with 16 mile long run very smooth and no isues.
Bike over 200 miles again. Saturday was a solid 112mile RR with TSS 250 and ~ mile 50-65 tried too push Watts to 180 and finished into strong head wind @155W. Did a brick run 7 miles EASY at 7:50 - 240watts and HR 120 in sun and heat and felt good.
Swam 3 times including 3000m on Sunday pre bike. No issues. Mixing in a little change of speed but nothing too hard. I figure even if I can manage 2minute/100 meter pace which is very easy that would still be a 1:16. So with swells and chop 1:20ish I'll take.
Hawaii Plan
Race plan is up
10/4 arrive short run 3-4 miles
10/5 Saturday short OWS and then 80 mile bike Hapuna-Hawi-Kona and possible 15 min brick
10/6 Sunday Ho'ala swim in AM run from Pine Tree Cafe back to Kona in PM
10/7 Monday short swim short run
10/8 Tuesday OWS and Bike AM Hapuna- Hawi- Hapuna 44 miles
10/9 Wednesday short swim short run possible run in energy lab
10/10 Thursday OWS short and few mile bike for last minute check if safe place to ride and short run
10/11 Friday rest
10/12 RACEDAY
I am getting pumped.
@Robert Sabo I hit your race plan already 👍. I am pumped at how your rest and self-care protocols have worked. Honestly while showing up less than 100% probably is a bummer on some level, it's going to make your race that Much better. I spend 99% of my time trying to slow folks down and in the case of Kona, the repercussions for errors are 10x a normal IM. Can't wait to see you on the island!
Fly safe!
~ Coach P
Thanks for your guidance encouragement. Looking forward to seeing you on the big island and sharing the race course.
Going to be so epic. Hope you are enjoying the wonder. Heads up if you are looking for a nice couples didner the Ulu Ocean Grill does OpenTable reservations and is beautiful on the beach (ask for outside seating when you reserve). Two of our best dinner dates ever there....
See you soon!
~ Coach P