Home General Training Discussions

Indoor Training For An Ironman

In Robin Sarner's IM AZ race report he noted that almost all of his bike training was indoors for most of his IMs. @Paul Hough asked about that, I replied, and decided the topic deserved its own thread. Here's what I said, to start the conversation:

I have no experience trying to do an Ironman while relying primarily on indoor cycling. So my thoughts are simply that...thoughts. There are examples of pros who do very well with most training indoors: Ken Glah, Andy Potts, Lionel Sanders, to name those I'm aware of. There was that Dr. from Alaska who won the US Women's Olympic Trials in the marathon some time ago, training only on a treadmill. Most of us do most of our swim training indoors, and use indoor cycling for a part of our build-up, as well as spend time on the treadmill.

So I suspect it's primarily a matter of mental discipline, for those who have previous experience racing outdoors. But, IMO, even though triathlon cycling is all about being steady, the nuances of terrain changes require some ability to make continual micro adjustments in gearing in order to avoid burning matches, and that can only be learned on varied outdoor terrain. Along with learning how to deal with uneven pavement.

I plan to ride and run outdoors if at all possible in my lead up to ITU LC WC in early May. I can juggle days to avoid rain, so I'm hoping to get all my long rides in outdoors. And I dislike the treadmill enough to juggle my run time to avoid the late winter/spring rains I will surely encounter here in Pac NW.

But if circumstances of life - work hours eating up the daylight - precludes outdoor rides, I think doing them on the trainer will work as long as one can handle the scenery never changing.

For those who have had a successful experience in an Ironman, training on the bike primarily indoors (specifically long rides of 5-6 hours), what has worked for you to engender that success?

Tagged:

Comments

  • Al - Thanks for starting this thread. I think for a variety of reasons
    more and more people are considering, if not almost completely
    transitioning a large portion of their training indoors. Safety, time
    efficiency, and a controlled training climate are among the leading
    reasons. I have trained the large majority of my time for several seasons
    with satisfying results.

    https://www.endurancenation.us/blog/triathlon-execution/what-is-it-like-to-train-indoors-and-race-outdoors/

    You raise a couple of good points - how does one handle the perceived
    monotony, and how does one translate training in a controlled indoor
    environment to racing in uncertain outdoor racing conditions?

    To address the monotony - I think properly setting up a pain cave that is
    inviting is important. In this day and age, there is no shortage of things
    to distract oneself. In fact, it seems people are looking for ways to
    become more focused, and less distractable by their phones, alerts etc.
    Nothing like staring at a wall in a pain cave to get to know oneself
    better... That said, being able to watch Netflix or sporting events,
    listen to podcasts, tackle email/social media and even read on a Kindle
    while training is a way for me to put the work in, and yet still be
    productive in other life categories. This benefit is something that is
    impossible to accomplish while in a pool, and difficult while dodging cars
    and traffic lights. "Double dipping" in this way is valuable at my life
    stage as I am balancing work and family responsibilities. For the more
    socially oriented, as you know, the combination of discord and Zwift is
    rapidly improving the social networking experience of solo indoor
    training. I certainly love a long ride in the mountains, trail running at
    day break, and swimming in a mirror lake. The practicality for most to
    train in this idyllic environment is unlikely on a consistent basis.

    While there is no doubt that training indoors is not the same as outdoors,
    I argue that the perceived negative performance impact is negligible. I
    take the opinion that the benefits outweigh the perceived performance loss
    - especially when speaking to everyone but the pointy, pointy end. Even
    the elites one could argue are successfully making the transition as cited
    in your pro examples and our own @CoachP. Granted, swimming indoors on a
    vasa bench is not the same, and spinning on a bike and running on a
    treadmill are marginally different. But keeping it simple... if you have
    put the training build work in and have ridden a bike outside before, run
    outside before, and swam in open water before, you'll be fine.

    YMMV :)

    Ian
  • For a number of reasons, I did a lot more indoor riding in 2018 than ever before with many rides in the 4 to 6 hour range. But if I were honest with myself, I know that I did not get near as many long rides in than I would when I focused more on doing long rides outdoors. While I was able to attain high cycling fitness indoors, I think I was just a little off my game. In 2019, I'll be shifting the long rides back outdoors and focusing on getting a very large aerobic base just prior to my IM build; basically coming full circle.

  • @Al Truscott - The majority of my cycling training for UMFL was last year was on Zwift. I do not think I could have done without the group interaction this team has but together on Zwift. I completed several 5 to 7 hour rides that would start on Saturday with the Hang on Ride crew and lead into the West Coast ABP ride. I do not even think I rode with you guys much, but the conversations on Discord were entertaining and made the time go buy. Sundays would start with the ODZentury 2.5 ride followed by the East Coast ABP ride.

    The pros to me were:

    1) Starting at 5:30 AM before the sun came up

    2) Having 8 to 10 bottles of nutrition in a cooler next to me

    3) No stop lights, pot holes

    4) Eliminating all the admin associated with getting the bike ready

    5) Way more quality workout IMO with no coasting or braking

    The cons

    1) Not enough time in aero. The aero position does not feel the same to me on the trainer.

    2) Riding to a goal watt outside to me is harder and requires more practice, especially with wind etc..

    3) Whatever muscles are used to balance the bike, although I think this one is a big stretch

    For the Run

    I can handle outside for most weather conditions except ice and freezing rain. I am lucky to have a park near me where the plow and salt the bike patch in the winter. With the exception of a handful of 10 to 12 mile runs (in my life), I do not do long runs on the treadmill. I really only use the TM for brick runs off the trainer or 2 to 6 mile weekday evening runs. We do have a high school near me that was a walking/running track that I can utilize when its icy. I did manage to do 2 back to back 3 hr runs at the school. It was not ideal, but to me it was better than a TM.

    Swim

    I do not have a Vasa, and I do not really see how its a substitute for real swimming. To me it seems like a great tool to strengthen your pull and compliment the swim. I did all of my swims in a pool. My sighting on race day was horrible and it cost me an extra 1000 meters of swimming.

  • I haven't done 'all' training for a full on a trainer.  But the vast majority is on the trainer, including three 100+ mile rides leading into IMChoo in 2017.  Some quick observations.  When I rode only outdoors as I didn't have Zwift, or a smart trainer, my FTP was stuck at 185.  I had a dumb trainer, but just couldn't ride it.   No matter how much I rode outdoors, my FTP wasn't budging.  Got signed up on Zwift and used my dumb trainer with my PM and in the out season (Dec 16 - March 17), FTP went up to 265!  Continued to utilize the trainer for 90% of my bike training and went into IM Raleigh with an FTP of 285!  Literally added 100 watts to my FTP by using the trainer and Zwift.    It hung at that number through IM training.  I would do the Saturday structured intervals most of the time on Zwift, but would do the Sunday ABP out on the road as Choo is a hilly bike so I needed real world hill climbing. 

    I also did better than 90% of the out season run work on a treadmill and had a huge half marathon PR, breaking 1:30 at the test race. 

    This year (2018), again did the out season 100% on the trainer, briefly got my FTP above 300, then unrelated injuries knocked me back.  Fast forward to my A Race, White Lake Half Iron this past September.  Other than a small handful of outdoor rides to help more with bike handling than anything, the trainer is where the work was done.  Had a 10 minute PR for the HIM bike, breaking 2:30 for the first time, going 2:24.  I'm signed up for IMMD on Sept 28th and plan on doing nearly all of the bike on the trainer.  Will probably do the Saturday long structured intervals on the trainer and a good number of the Sunday ABP rides out on the road to help with handling.  I'm not a cyclist and have poor cycling skills.  I can go fast in a straight line.  So I do need a bit of time on the road just from a handling practice aspect.

    What I like about the trainer.

    1) If I have a 90 minute weekday session, its 90 minutes.  I hop on, do the work, hop off, done.  On the road, the pre ride admin, drive, ride, post ride admin, drive home, unload car, etc... turns 90 min in to 3 hours.  That's a lot of wasted time, and work, family, wife, kids, real life responsibilities still need to get done. 

    2) There is just no way to hit the watts and hold em for the intervals out on the road.  Its a much better and more focused workout.  Producing better results.

    3) Weather and outdoor conditions don't come into play.  Cold, wind, rain, traffic, etc... don't exist. 

    4) Safety is a huge factor as well. 

    5) For bricks or reverse bricks, its a quick and easy transition.  Finish the bike, swap shoes and I'm off and running.  Reverse if its a run/bike brick.  No putting the bike away in the car, or getting the bike out. 

    6) Nutrition is right there next to me on a table.  Bottles and snacks lined up.  And if wanted, I can eat and drink things that I can't out on the road.  Unless you know of a nice Aero pizza box I can bolt onto my bike. 

    7) Schedule flexibility.  If non-triathlon life dictates I have to do something in the evening, I can knock out my bike in the garage pre-dawn.  Or, I can do it post sunset.  You won't catch me riding in the dark.  I see people doing it.  They are crazy.

    How do I deal with the mental aspect of it?  For me its never really been a problem. I don't watch TV, Netflix, or other things.  I just put heavy metal on my audio system in the garage and turn it up. 

    Cons:

    Being a poor cyclist.  So the lack of actually having to ride a bike and use what limited cycling skills I have needs to be addressed with at least some decent outdoor rides.

    Lack of Aero time.  For the life of me I can not stay in aero on the trainer for very long.  As in minutes.  However, I can hop on the bike, take it out on the road, and go for 4, 5, 6 hours and never come out of aero except when conditions mandate that I do (lights, intersections, traffic, etc...). I'm lucky in that respect. 

    Far more prone to saddle sores on the trainer than road riding.  I've built a rocker plate to help with this.  And it does help.  But still an issue. 


    I'll be doing the OS this year starting Feb with a May 5th half marathon test race.  All bike work will be done on the trainer.  Run will be about 50/50 treadmill road.  Then its into training for IMMD.  95% of swim will be pool.  All weekday bikes on trainer.  Weekends split 1 on trainer 1 on road for most part, but will defer to the trainer if I feel like it.  Running will be a mix of treadmill and road, but heavy on the road as there is just no substitute for suffering under the brutal southern sun.  And if you don't, come race day, you will have a bad day out in the sun. 


    But at the end of the day, the trainer for the bike is a far far better training tool than the road.  Better results in less time and more focused, specialized training is possible.  Those who shun it, or mock it as "not real cycling" will be left in the dust on race day.

  • @Brian Terwilliger Saddle sores: do you use any chamois butter (my preference is Aquaphor) when you do long or hard rides on the trainer?

  • the saddle sore question I have is that whether I ride outdoor or indoors, my but gets sore on the saddle after about an hour, but I do not get actual "sores."

    I don't use chamois butter for the reason that I don't get any sores or inflammation. I DO use it in IMs where there is a lot of moisture in the equation from peeing & washing self down with water at Aid stations, and per @Al Truscott's recommendation, went with Aquaphor as well.

  • I use DZ Nuts for lube and it works pretty well.   I had previously been using Cramer's Skin Lube as it is exceptionally resistant to water, sweat, etc...  Even after a full IM you really gotta work to get it off. 

    What was puzzling about the saddle sore issue was that I had gone all of 2016 without having to use any lube at all and never once had any issues.  Then shortly after the start of the 2017 Out Season, I couldn't go 20 minutes without starting to get hot spots, actual pain, etc...  And nothing changed in my set up.  Not clothing, bike, trainer, bike fit, etc... Zip.  In Sept 2016, I could go 5 hours on the trainer, no lube, zero issues.  Take a couple months off and come December, near immediately had problems.

    I found that something as simple as doing a 2 minute standing interval (keeping my target watts) every 15 to 20 minutes  after the first hour made a big difference. As did the addition of a rocker plate.  And it got me through 2018 with minimal saddle sore issues, but they still persisted to some extent.  But I've never fully solved the issue.

    I haven't been on my bike since mid September and will be getting back on in a week or so just doing some easy Zwift rides to re-introduce my butt to the saddle.  Will see if any issues arise.   Not starting the 2019 OS until last week of January.

  • @Brian Terwilliger - Regarding the sudden on-set of saddle sores, check/do 3 things. 1. how old are your bike shorts/bibs as the chamois pads do wear out. 2. your saddle height. Due to LBS service or even a decrease/increase in flexibility, your saddle could be 1/8 -1/4 inch too high. When I started getting saddle sores for no apparent reason, and after several months and going back to my bike fitter, discovered the cause was my saddle was 1/4 inch higher than my last fitting measurements. 3. Get a saddle pressure mapping done. You sit on this device while riding your bike and it shows the locations of the hot spots (high pressure spots). Raising/lower your saddle just a 1/4 inch can make a big difference. YMMV.

  • @Derrek Sanks - these are all great tips and should be anyone's go to source if they have only one bike. But I have four bikes with four different saddles. All of my bikes fit me great, but each is slightly different and thus slightly different pressure points. If I am starting to feel any discomfort after riding one particular bike for too many weeks in a row that is a signal to me to switch bikes -- and poof, immediate relief. I'm just throwing this out there as another idea.

  • edited December 15, 2018 1:56PM

    Looks like most of the positives and negatives have been raised.

    i might get a rocker board to help simulate the side to side movement. Did you folks make yours ?

    hopefully I will continue some zwift racing until 10 weeks out from iron man.

    to repeat my one success story for kq at Canada 2016. Most swimming on Vasa. 58 minutes wetsuit. From 10 weeks out, all indoor bikes. Working towards 3w/kg race goal. Long bikes did intervals and did hill power during the time I would be experiencing in the race. Running was mostly outdoors.

    running, I think, is especially hard to simulate running mostly on the treadmill. I ran a lot more on the treadmill leading up to Arizona last month. In the future, due to my fragile knees ( large medial meniscus tear), plan to continue using a lot of treadmill. Maybe do half of the long runs, during final iron build, on the treadmill. Also, treadmill is easier to recover from than outdoors. So maybe a good tool for all to get some good mileages.

    Thanks @Al Truscott Aka. Albrecht.

Sign In or Register to comment.