Gearing and Disc Wheel at IMLP
All,
Wasn't sure the right place to post this but here we go... I'm essentially looking for feedback on 3 things... brief comparison (basic impressions) of bike course on IMLP vs IMLOU, gearing to use for IMLP and whether it makes sense to run a rear disc wheel on IMLP.
I'm racing IMLP for the first time next month. I'm a bit concerned about all of those hills! I have done Louisville 3 times and no other Ironman races. The total elevation gain at IMLOU is listed at 5,448 ft. The total elevation gain at IMLP is listed at 4,182 ft... which kinda has me scratching my head... I expected more gain at IMLP. The course profiles look very different though. Has anyone done both of these bike courses and can comment on how different they are?
Ultimately I'm trying to finalize what cassette I'm going to use on my bike... I'm leaning towards an 11-30T. I have a 53-39 set of chain rings on. Any recommendations on cassettes?
Lastly, I'm trying to decide whether to run a disc wheel at the back or not. I have either Zipp 858 or Zipp Super 9 Disc. Any recommendations on these wheels for lake Placid? Does a Disc make sense there?
Thanks in advance for any tips from IMLP veterans!
Comments
first off given how these things are measured, no one really knows how much elevation there is.. anywhere.. Good DC Rainmaker article out there. Everyone comes up with different numbers, then run them through TP, garmin Connect or Strava and hit elevation correction on all, and you will get three wildly different answers. You'd think the three were pulling off the same data base.
the real guess is somewhere between 6 & 8ish. the 4182 number listed is for ONE lap..
you will want a 10/28 or 11/28 on the rear and a mid compact on the front (36)
disc is fine, but it's weight. I am thinking about a wheel cover for my 808. but i do have the super 9 as well.
I'd also recommend heading out to the keene descent by car and running it 2-3x on thursday and having a friend/sherpa "ski lift" you back to the top.. Running that a few times makes it downright comfy on race day.
Look forward to meeting you up in LP!
btw if you are in AG 50-54, get a 202 for the rear and run with a 11-23 and you'll be just fine😂😂😂
Best Friendly advice ever. hahaha
"btw if you are in AG 50-54, get a 202 for the rear and run with a 11-23 and you'll be just fine😂😂😂"
Love it @scott dinhofer
@Robert Patrick
Coach P just put up a Ride w GPS file & talk on Facebook live about the course. the RWGPS file has 3300' of climbing per loop. I am thinking that is reasonably correct..
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30423328?fbclid=IwAR0lcba1xGA_MOauKMHR1gmDhv-EBOWZ9p_LP08eryi4beoBrNI-nhjeC7g
@Robert Patrick if you have a standard crank (53/39) and have the ability to go with the 11-30 (i.e. you have a WiFli RD), then go with the 11-30 cassette. (that climbing gear 39/30=1.30 is very similar to what many people would have with a mid-compact and an 11-28 since 36/28=1.28). More gears are almost always more better, especially at Lake Placid.
The topography of the Lake Placid course sets up WAY different than Louisville. I think of Lou as mostly rollers with a few short-ish climbs, with the last ~15-20 miles net downhill to flat. Placid starts with some admin miles with short punchy hills, then 4 miles of the most glorious downhill on any Ironman course... Followed by ~20 miles of mostly flat TT. Then you have ~25 miles of continuous net uphill broken up with some gradual mini downhills or flat spots (this ~25 miles has to recover all of the net downhill you did in 4 downhill miles in the beginning of the loop). The 3 hills at the end are named the 3 bears. None of these bears are all that big in isolation, but at the end of the lap they feel bigger than they are. And at the end of the 2nd lap, they feel twice as big as the first lap. You literally climb all the way to mile 110.
But gearing on a bike is all about grade or % incline. There are very few parts in the LP course that are super steep... you just go gradually uphill for a long time. So LP generally takes ~10 mins longer for the same NP (all else being equal). What gearing did you use in Louisville? and were you comfortable with that? I know some really strong cyclists (~5:00 IM bike leg guys) who had no problems at LP with a 53/39 and an 11-26. But I also know some weaker cyclists that had trouble with a Compact (50/34 and an 11-28). What is your W/KG? What was your best bike split in Lou? Are you okay being a masher or do you mind low cadence?
They tweak the bike course a bit each year (at least the short out-and-back sections), but the main loop is always the same... In 2013, my file for the entire bike leg at Lake Placid showed 6,429' of gain. https://www.strava.com/activities/70592944 You can scroll down to just look at the elevation profile (that I described above).
I used a Super9 disc on that course. If a disc is allowed it is ALWAYS faster. LP has the giant downhill and super long flat TT section. The aero advantages you gain there outweigh the slight weight penalty on the uphills. But an 858 is also a really fast wheel, so the difference will be minor. If you ONLY had 858s and it would be a huge $$ or admin headache to buy or borrow a disk, I'd advise you to race on the 858s. But since you already have a disc, I'd say use it. I used a FC808 in the front. It is the front wheel that gives some people bigger issues in the wind. There could absolutely be some gusty crosswinds on that course. I race at ~180lbs and have well above average bike handling skills (for a triathlete anyways), so I have never been scared with my 808 on the front. But I do know some much lighter (or much more skittish) riders who prefer something like a 404 on the front on that course (if it't extra windy that day). Your 858 was specifically designed to be better in crosswinds than my FC808, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it.
@John Withrow nails the mechanical conversation, but hasn't kept up to date with the course changes.
you went from this
-climbing out of town to keene descent
-keene descent
TT all the way to Ausable forks, and back to turn to Wilmington
-climb to Wilmington
at Wilmington - short out/back to hazleton
climb from Wilmington with breaks to LP
NOW you do this
-climbing out of town to keene descent
-keene descent
-TT for less miles to Turn at Hazleton WITHOUT going out and back to ausable forks
-climb to Wilmington
-longer out/ back to hazleton with a small punchy climb in the middle
-climb to LP
again, everything is concentrated, this isn't the rollers of LV which both @John Withrow and I have done and can easily make the comparisons... you want to be able to spin those gears for long periods of time at 80-90 cadence while climbing 6-9%
@scott dinhofer , @John Withrow , thanks so much for all of the detailed information. I'm always impressed with what I can learn here. Very, very helpful stuff that saves me a great deal of stress trying to decide (without the backup info)! By the way... I'm in the 45-49 age group (last year) so I'll decline @scott dinhofer s advice on the 202 and 11-23 gearing :-)... very funny!
More gears is always better, and this:
https://wheelbuilder.com/aerojacket-disc-cover/
is lighter than a full disc wheel, and just as fast at 1/10th the price. Also has an EN discount...