Need help debriefing & interpreting IM Choo performance
A little history! I’m now 68, and from my first sprint triathlon at age 50 to the end of 2017 I competed and landed on the podium at all of the shorter distance triathlons, sprint, Olympic and 70.3, most of the time first place. For two years running I was ranked first in the world in my AG at the 70.3 distance, other years 3rd and 5th and 7th.
After 15 years of racing I began to think, “Would I regret never having tried the 140.3 distance?” I pondered this for many months and I concluded that before I pass from this earth I would regret not racing at least ONE full Ironman. I signed up for IM Texas in April of 2018 and started to train in earnest. I won my AG and qualified for Kona! Who qualifies and then doesn’t go to Kona at least once, right? I went to Kona but didn’t do as well as I hoped placing 14th F65-69.
The plan has been to scout out a late season IM in 2019 to repeat in 2020 and attempt to qualify for Kona in 2021 when I age up to 70. I picked IM Chattanooga and went to the EN Camp in August to get familiar with the bike and run courses. I really enjoyed the camp and enjoyed putting names and faces together.
I have to say that Ironman Chattanooga was the most challenging one I’ve done so far, requiring me to dig to a level of deep that I had not experienced before, and for longer than I ever thought possible. It took me 16 hours and 50 minutes to cross the finish line. I really enjoyed the bike course and had fun on the hilly terrain; being patient on the uphills, and maximizing the downhills and flats. I saw my HR start the bike at 135 and gradually decline to 115 by the last hour of the bike, then I kept it at that for the first 8 miles of the run, but then continued to drop to 109 by the time I finished the run except for a rally on the last 2 miles at 120.
This is my third IM and each one has gotten progressively slower and slower!
I’m sure the heat made a difference…the L4-5 nerve pain I’ve experienced since February is just about resolved and didn’t hurt at all during the race, the bronchitis I came down with 14 days before the race had resolved, but compromised my taper I’m sure. Are these reasons why the wheels fell off? I followed the EN-way of execution of pacing and nutrition. I drank and ate lots of GE and bananas, bars, took extra sodium pills, stayed wet, peed plenty, and kept my HR in check. No GI issues at all. I felt warm, but not heat stressed like I have experienced in training some days. I feel I did a good job of cooling across the bike and run course. By the second loop of the run both feet hurt, both butt cheeks hurt, and my low back hurt (but no nerve pain!). Every step was like stepping on shards of glass. It turns out I had more blisters than I have toes, one blister lifted my next to pinky nail right out of the nail bed – that’s a first for me.
I just don’t understand what went wrong, or what I could have done better, or is this distance not for me? Or am I still carrying fatigue from 2 IMs in 2018 when I was sick for 8 weeks after Kona?
I would love your input, suggestions and insights. My whole next season is hanging in the balance. (I’m thinking scrap IM and go back to 70.3???)
In the end, I’m very glad I raced Chattanooga and thrilled I was able to cross the finish line. The bike course really is fun and a good portion of the run is along the beautiful river park system. In completing this race I found a level of commitment to finish that was so strong it startled me! It’s like I opened a door to a whole new room I didn’t know I had inside! I willed myself to keep moving when I saw people quitting all around me, all day long. I needed my ONE thing at about mile 14! LOL…
I tapped into a new level of determination and desire to finish that has made its mark on my life. If I can will myself to keep going when the going is REALLY uncomfortable and difficult, where else can I apply that same degree of tenacity and perseverance and see something to its completion? I already know. I have doctorate classes that have taken a back seat in the last few months. It’s time to get back to them!
Thanks for your support, wisdom and insights!
Sue deJesus
Comments
Hi Sue
I will let the WSMs chime in on your main queries.
I use socks for the bike, and fresh ones for the run. I smother my feet in petroleum jelly, then pull on the sock when I am setting up mu bike and run bags. So that when I am in T1 and T2, when I pull on my socks they have lots of jelly on the insides, which tends to keep the blisters away.
Cheers
Peter
BTW, I raced the Worlds 70.3 at Chattanooga in 2016 and really, really enjoyed the course. Although it was by far the hardest 70.3 I have ever done!
@Peter Greagg I did used fresh socks on the run that I had slathered Run Goo on the inside, which has worked in previous races, though maybe I needed more. Are you saying that you put the petroleum jelly first all over your feet, then put your socks on, then pull them off and put them in your run bag? You do this for both bike and run socks? Thanks Peter!
@Sue DeJesus First of all I commend you for such grit! Not too many female Master Athletes want to do what we do.
While it's fresh in your mind can you go back and figure out how sodium you took in on the bike and run? I know it's hard to calculate with the sips of GE. Salt pills? How often did you pee on the bike? You said plenty. More than three times? I'm wondering if you created swelling in your feet. I'm observing way too much salt being taken by women that don't have a lot of muscle mass and weigh less than 130 pounds.
The Choo course hasa fair amount of downhill running. If there was extra pressure on your feet and sliding forward in your shoes, that can also cause a nail to blister. Hard to believe you have never lost a toenail! Were your shoes wet from dousing yourself with water?
What shoes are you in? Cushioned socks? As you know with age we loose fat pads under our feet that can cause what you are describing. I've experienced that foot pain and had to go with a more cushioned shoe and Balega socks.
You have the mindset for IM, don't give it up yet. It's a puzzle. If you are structurally sound try another IM and pick a course that has a flat run.
Also, it's not fair to yourself to dissect your Kona performance as a determinate of your success at IM.
@Sue DeJesus Like you, I did my first tri @ age 50, 20 years ago, and have had fairly consistent success ever since. Unlike you, though I've done a bunch of IMs, and learned very quickly that it is almost a different sport from the other distances. Nutrition and pacing play a central role, whereas in Olys and 70.3, you can get away with almost anything when it comes to food, and usually have to be prepared to do some hard work on the bike and the run, rather than maintain a steady effort.
Also like you, I got humbled my first time @ Kona, where despite an IM PR on the run, I ended up in the mid-teens in my AG. I agree with Sheila - don't let that get you down; use it for improvement.
Now, as to what happened in Chattanooga? If you have files from the bike and run showing power and/or HR, I could possibly offer some thoughts as to pacing. Sheila will certainly have the nutrition aspects covered. In my experience (both personal and observing others), I've found that the large majority or problems later in the run can be traced to irrational exuberance on the first part of the bike. Most of the remainder are due to problems with hydration.
@Sheila Leard Thanks for your thoughts! Here are answers to your questions: I took 3 x 700mg salt tabs on the bike and another 3 on the run because I was peeing more than I though I should on both the bike and run so I thought I needed more sodium. I drank about 1.5 bottles of GE per hour and maybe 2 the first hour, over the rest of the 8 hours on the bike: 2 clif bars, 1/2 picky bar, 2 gels, 4 banana pieces. (I had been slightly hungry on the last of the swim in spite of a 500cal breakfast 3hrs before, 250 bar 1.5 hours before, then 150 gel 30 min before the start.)
On the bike peed maybe 4-6x, and on the run on the 2nd loop every mile for a total of maybe 10-12 times. I experienced sort of the same thing at Kona, the last half of the run all the water went straight through me. This time I drank no water but 4oz at least of GE every aid station and the last few hours added a 4oz of coke every other aid station, and when I started to get hungry around mile 23ish I drank both GE and coke at every aid station and a banana piece twice. Twice I ate chips that didn't even taste salty to me. I had 4 gels before mile 18. I weigh in at about 134. After the race my feet have swelling but didn't notice any when I got back to the AirBnB after the race.
I wore Brooks Glycerin 17s with padded socks (ColdMax) and the Brooks are about 3 months old.
And yes...my feet were wet on the bike and for the whole run because of all the water I doused myself with doing my best to stay cool.
@Al Truscott Thanks for your encouragement! I agree the IM is a whole different animal!
Not sure how to load files here but here are some stats for the bike: Avg mph 14, TSS 305, IF 0.67, Avg HR 115, Max 143, VI 1.18, and my power meter stopped working 6:45 hours into the ride. I have TP & WKO4, but don't know how to export a file. I tried though! :)
Run: I highlighted where I saw a trend downward in Avg HR. I didn't know at the time what to do about it. During training I have a hard time keeping my HR in the 127-138 range--it easily goes higher. My long run pace is 12:30-13:00 pace.
Thanks for your thoughts! Sue
@Sue DeJesus Yes, cover feet in the jelly, put on socks, walk a bit, then remove socks. Repeat for run socks.
@Sue DeJesus
To share your WKO4 bike (and run?) file, go to where you store your wkos on your computer. The folder will be called wko4. Mine is in "Documents". Open that folder, and the the sub-folder "2019", and select the file(s), and copy them, and paste them into a post here.
It could also be in Downloads.
If you can't find the wko4 folder, you can use explorer (or safari), to search for the folder 'wko4'.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Peter
@Peter Greagg I found the files, but I can't attach them via the paperclip, nor will they paste after I copy them. It gives me an error message that there is an unacceptable extension.
But the link I put in above does take me to WKO4 on my computer. Does the link given attention to @Al Truscott work? It does when I click on it...
@Sue DeJesus I looked at just your bike fuel and at a glance it appears you may have over ate and may not have needed so much sodium. The body will try to regulate blood pressure when sodium is too high and start peeing. When you slowed your pace on the run sweat rate probably decreased. Your hunger may have just been related exercising for 16 hours. I wouldn't overthink that. A bar to nibble on might have helped.
Calories on bike only:
Sodium on bike:
@Sue DeJesus Here's what I do when I'm trying to analyze my race in WKO...specifically the bike. In WKO, see if you can select segments of the ride, say, each hour, and examine the trend in your normalized power during each hour of the ride. the first hour or two should ideally be LOWER than the overall average. If it is above average, then you probably were too aggressive for the conditions of the day, and that showed up in your decreasing run performance. Your superb fitness carried you through the first 8-10 hours of the race, but then, you exceeded you ability to continually recuperate while still soldiering on.
Also, you note that your VI was 1.18. This is quite high, again if you're trying to optimize your run. It shows you're continually burning a lot of little matches, and eventually are running out of the ability to sustain your normal long run pace (even at a lower level accounting for the excessive heat, which would raise your pace by probably 2 min/mile compared to what you can do on a long run in temps of 60-65F). A VI below about 1.08 would be good, and 1.06 would be ideal. E.g., when I'm doing an IM bike, my HR is usually in the low teens, but my max is hardly ever above 120, whereas your much higher max HR goes along with that increased variability in effort.
It took me 5 years and 6-7 IMs before the light finally went on for me on the need to have a very steady, controlled, STUPID SLOW pace on the bike, especially early on. Even after that, I only qualified for Kona in half of the IMs I did, as I continued to mess up the pacing, thinking the rules didn't apply to me, cause I was such a "good" racer. Humility, patience and discipline can not be emphasized enough during the first half of the bike, and again during the first 90-120 minutes of the run.
All that being said, Chattanooga was an extreme outlier in its brutal conditions. Survival must have seemed almost impossible, much less trying to live up to your own expectations as a racer.
I don't know what shape your joints are in, but in the past two years, I've had to limit my long runs (like in an IM) to flat(ter) terrain, to prevent excessive swelling in my knees after 3+ hours. I used to love to run downhill, but now it's often more problematic than going up.
I'm positive you'll get back to Kona again. Learning to pace, drink, and eat so that the day is more enjoyment than torture will bring that day sooner than you think.
Thanks @Al Truscott! I went into WKO and have data for the first 6 of 8 hours. On this course I think looking at actual average watts may be better than the projected NP. It appears I wasn't patient long enough though I was fairly steady?
1 - 85Avg Watts, 92NP, 1.09 VI
2 - 84 Avg watts, 92NP, 1.09 VI
hours 3, 4, 5 & 6 were exactly the same - 80 Avg watts, 91NP, 1.13 VI then my power meter stopped working.
Even at camp I saw that to get up the hills I ran out of gears and greatly exceeded my FTP to get up and over them. I've seen an alarming and significant decrease in my FTP since starting IM and 70.3 training, and as I have gotten older.
My joints have been good. This race my knees started to hurt by mile 20 and I've never had that in training or racing before.
Before coming to EN, I spent several years running a Run/Walk protocol (90":30" or even 60":30") to keep my HR under my aerobic max for all my runs except for speed work. I wanted to do more running this year as I didn't find that protocol satisfying as a runner so this last spring I slowed down my running until I could run continuously. So I think for IM I may need to return to something of that sort for racing. I had really wanted to run to each aid station, but if overall I'm much slower by running more continuously, and maybe accumulating more fatigue, then maybe the set intervals of run/walk may work better - I don't know!
Thank you so much for your comments!
@Sheila Leard I have had a challenge finding the right calorie total and macro ratios for the bike even in training. I had calculated I needed 338 calories per hour, but in training eating or taking in that amount always left me a little woozy or light headed for a brick run. If I take in too much sugar it will make me feel like that. One time I tried a fruit diet and ate a ton of grapes and felt similarly! It also feels like "I need to eat" sensation like I have not eaten enough or taken in the right ratio of macros. When I have more protein I feel better coming off the bike but don't have the formula down yet.
For several years I used Infinit with 3g protein per bottle on the bike providing all my calories or sometimes supplementing with a sushi rice PB and banana 'sandwich.' I was told 3g was too much and I didn't need any extra protein to race. I also never supplemented with extra sodium tabs before this race. This is the first time I ate and drank off what the course provided.
I was told that if I peed too much that I was not getting enough sodium because the body was not hanging on to fluids and salt would help that. So is it sometimes both? too much or too little will make me pee?
I think it's back to the drawing board for bike nutrition. More experimenting is needed!
BTW what shoes do you use that have more cushion?
@Sue DeJesus That looks like you were fairly steady during the bike. I think the conclusion would be the day was just brutal, and when you're out there for as long as we OFs are in those conditions, things just aren't going to go well.
I hear you about running strategy. I used to think I was a failure if I walked at all. Then, while training for an IM in 2005, I tried walking 20-30 sec each mile while I drank, and found that my total pace per mile was actually faster than if I ran every step. We can speculate about the reasons why, but in the end all that matters is that bottom line time, no?
Once I started strategically walking in races by IM marathon times fell over several year period from 4:45 to 4:00 as I learned how to lock in the proper pacing. (Since turning 60, of course, they've started going back the other way, no matter what I do.)
I agree with whoever said above that finding a flatter course, especially on the run, would give you the best chance. In the more advanced ladies' AGs, just staying steady, even @ 12:30-13:00 min/mile, will get you the gold ring, I think.
Thanks @Al Truscott I believe I will revisit a more run/walk method and see what that does. One thing that happened with going to more continuous running is that my mileage per week dropped significantly. I would take the run minutes perscribed, then translate that to miles then run walk the # of miles. I got in more miles on my feet and never got injured even up to 3-3:30 hours for a long run. In this case I think acceptance of what it needs to be is the wisest approach.
With your help I have gone from I'm finished with IM to if I can find one suitable to my strengths, then I'll reconsider! :) LOL
Yeah, go out on a high note...what I'm doing here in Kona this week. Retiring from IM this year, and I want to feel it's on my terms, not being forced on me.
@Al Truscott I hear you! Thanks so much. And Good LUCK on this last hurrah! Make it your best!
@Sue DeJesus I re-read your fueling thoughts. Fructose is a slower acting carb. It goes to the liver first before being converted for useable energy. Infinite can work ONLY if you have the gut capacity to also hydrate. Most women don't have the ability to consume that amount of fluid.
Being more self supported takes effort when racing but I have found it can work separating out hydration from your calories. Try getting a bit of protein and a very small amount of fat from bars early on the bike. This can help with feeling hungry. Athletes who race a 10 hour IM usually don't experience hunger. Switch to chews later on the bike.
Peeing too much on the bike could mean too much salt as your body tries adjust blood pressure. It can also mean drinking too much. So much depends on the conditions. There isn't one formula for this. 34 oz/ hr is the max for what most people can absorb. As a female it is less.
Keep watching how many KJ's you burn in a long workout. I've compared several of my wko KJ's ... take 50% of what you burned divided by hours out there and that should put you in the ballpark of cal/hr.
@Sheila Leard I'm going to read the ROAR now that I have more time. I think it will help me figure out the IM nutrition.
You offer great suggestions. I do think that what I calculated ended up being too much for both on the bike and on the run.
I'm interested in learning more about how to be more self supported, find products that truly help and how to separate hydration from calories. I believe that will be key for me. Thank you for your comments and the time you've spent pondering this for me!