Gravel Bike Wheels
Back in September we got a couple of Specialized Diverge Comps and have been really enjoying gravel riding. When we got them we were thinking one bike, two wheelsets so we could do pavement and gravel and just take one bike when we travel. As we've been riding gravel more we're starting to think that we'd do mostly gravel and occasionally roads to stitch the gravel bits together or with the occasional gran fondo or other group ride. A lot of the forest roads here have steep climbs though we do have some gravel rails to trails. And of course there's the "serious" gravel rides like the Belgium Waffle and Big Sugar that I'm considering.
So I started researching wheels and I'm probably more confused now than when I started. I started looking into manufacturer direct carbon wheels from China, good price especially compared to top brands; decent reviews, though some of them don't seem so objective; decent response times to questions, so far on the front end; warranties are so,so and I'd mostly have to deal with a factory in China to get results. Then I found intheknowcycling.com and this post https://intheknowcycling.com/best-carbon-wheelset-for-the-money/. This led to reading a lot of other posts he had about wheels and other peoples posts about the wheels he reviewed to get a cross section of opinions.
So here's the dilemma, the stock wheels on the bikes are serviceable, but they're pretty heavy and the hubs don't spin very well. The only carbon wheels I've ridden were on a demo mountain bike and compared to everything else I rode that day were very snappy. It was the nicest bike I rode that day but was way out of my budget. So the quest started out to get two sets of wheels at less than a grand each and unless I want to roll the dice on the direct China manufacturer wheels that leaves me with alloy wheels. I can get some of those with much better hubs but the weight won't be that much different, 100-200 grams less. So if I want some significant weight reduction and good customer service then I'm looking at wheels like Enve, Stans, Zipp, etc. But even the lowest prices of those is almost as much as I paid for the bikes (I got a really good deal on them since they were demos). Are those wheels worth the money compared to a good set of alloy wheels that I could get for a half to a third of the price? Am I going to notice the difference?
For the record, I did get a quote from Wheelbuilders and using the EN discount I can get a set of wheels with a Powertap rear hub and DT Swiss 350 front for about $1800 with FSE Evo rims. Those rims are one of the direct manufacturer's I checked out above. I haven't been able to find out much about them, but it would be easier to deal with Wheelbuilder if I had problems. For reference, I could get the same setup with Enve G23 rims, which I've read really good things about, for about $700 more per set.
Thoughts?
Comments
@Mark Maurer I would stay away from anything China, knockoff. Not worth it. They may look fine, but are not likely to "feel" they way you want, cleanly mount tires, seal tubeless tires, no / bad warranty, cheap hub etc.
All the brands you mention (Zipp, Stans, Enve, Wheelbuilder) make a good product, reliable warranty and customer support. You are on the right track trying to balance - cost, weight/performance, warranty, and hub. Hub quality is often over looked. Good on you for keying in on it.
The "feel" thing is hard to give advice on. To me, it depends on your weight, riding style, terrain and even the tire choice can impact the feel of the wheelset. So, that is a tough one. I have read the intheknowcycling article you mention and he lays out a good argument for figuring out what you value? Performance? Design? Warranty? Price?
My input would be: consider a high end aluminium set with a quality hub, the weight difference my not be that much or within a margin that you would be comfortable with. I have an lightweight aluminium set of wheels from DT Swiss. I have been happy with them. They fit into my ven diagram of cost, weight/performance, warranty, and hub. The DT Swiss hub is easy to service by you or a LBS. Tubeless tires are easy to install and seal on their rim. I don't mind if they take a rock strike or scratch because that will just kinda happen on the gravel I ride.
Also, I have purchased several sets of Zipp wheels on e-bay used. They can be had for 5-700 $ a set for older 303 or comparable wheels. @John Withrow is the king of buying tri stuff on e-bay and he may have some advice too.
issue with used is that there aren't too many tubeless compatible 303s out there yet.
if you want to spend the dough and I know you don't want to, the new enve G23 is their 2nd best selling wheelset ever and tubeless ready.
I personally think that @matt limbert's advice above about DT Swiss aluminium rims is on the money
@matt limbert Thanks Matt. Interestingly I was on a group gravel ride yesterday and the group leader and one of the owners of an LBS here had a set of wheels with Light Bicycle rims. One of the other co-owners built that set and another set of wheels for him. He really likes them and he does a lot of gravel riding including the DK. So I'm going to talk to them to get a price for a set of wheels.
@Ralph Moore I've been looking at ebay, prosbikecloset, my bike store etc and it's pretty much what @scott dinhofer said, there aren't too many tubeless compatible with thru axle hubs out there. I have a nice set of Hed Belgium Plus wheels but the hubs aren't compatible so I'd have to buy new hubs and get them relaced to use them.
@scott dinhofer funny you should mention the G23's. Another LBS who I've bought lots of bikes from is an Enve dealer and he's someone who has never tried to oversell anything to me. I called him today to get his opinion about wheels and first he went to a Maxis alloy wheel, then to a Campy, and finally to the Enve. Then he said he had a pair of G23's in the shop and would set me up with wheels, rotor, cassette and tires and let us try them out for a week. (Enve does list them as a demo store.) So I have the G23's on my bike now for a test ride. Susan and I will try them out this weekend on gravel and see how the do and if we want to spend the money or not. The mechanic had me pick them up before he put the tire and rotor on them and they are super light. We'll see. I haven't pulled out my credit card yet.
@Mark Maurer Once you test ride those other wheels. I would love to hear your thoughts.
@Mark Maurer I would look at something like the stans notubes - have a look at medium and higher end gravel bikes and look at the aluminium wheels they have, that will help you
@matt limbert I tried em, at least one set. I mentioned above that a local bike shop let me demo a pair of Enve G23 wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs. He set them up with Maxxis Re-fuse 40c tires, Shimano Deore rotors and a 11-34 cassette. The stock wheels are Specialized Axis Elites with Trigger Pro 38c tires and a 11-32 cassette. Both are set up for tubeless and I've been running them at 43psi which is what Enve recommends. So there are a few more variables than just the wheels which is not the best to a head to head comparison but I didn't think about that when he was setting it up for me. I had the wheels for a week and rode them to work which is 7.2 miles one way. The bike was very responsive on the road and I averaged a minute slower than the same ride on my road bike and about 2 minutes faster than the stock wheels at the same hrTSS.
Last Saturday, Susan did a Chick Gravel Ride in the Capitol Forest. It was about 16 miles and 1900 feet of climbing. She used the wheels first to see how she liked them and I did the loop with the stock wheels. I finished before her because it was a no drop ride so I did the loop backwards and met them in the middle. I finished the loop and went back to the start to meet up with Susan and change wheels. I did the third loop with the G23's in the same direction as the the second loop because it was fresher in my mind and my legs were a little fatigued the second loop as compared to the first.
The Capitol Forest is a working forest and there are steep logging roads with chunky gravel, smooth dirt, smooth gravel, and mushy mud. There was a short single track section to get to the gravel roads from the parking lot and a stretch of pavement, so I got to try out a lot of different riding surfaces. The stock wheels with the Trigger Pro tires handled everything adequately but I really got thrown around a lot on the downhills with the chunky gravel section. I really had to keep my speed in check to stay on the road in steeper sections. The mushy mud sections made the bike squirm so much that it felt like I had flat tires, so much so that I stopped to check the first time I hit it. Hills were hills, I got in a low gear and ground it out.
The loop I timed was 13.5 miles a little over 1,700 feet of climbing. The first loop was 1:16:09 and it had the pavement stretch as a downhill. The second loop was the opposite way at 1:21:39 w/ a 60 hr TSS.
I did the third loop with the G23's in 1:16:52 and a hrTSS of 69. However, unlike the first two loops, I didn't stop during the third loop. I ate and drank while riding. The first and second loops I stopped to eat and drink and talk when I met up with the Chick Ride (there was an overturned vehicle in a creek on the paved section that they were about to hit so I wanted to warn them about that). I'm not sure if that affected my hrTSS or not or if was cardiac drift or just the excitement of trying out the new wheels. I did try to keep my perceived effort the same on both loops but that is a little subjective. But here's what I noticed about the wheels. They really responded when I hit small rises and put the power down to get up them. I didn't notice too much of a difference on long climbs because they were so steep. I did notice in the woods and on pavement that I can shift into a higher gear sooner with the wheels though as things start to flatten out. What I did notice (as did Susan) was the difference going downhill, especially in chunky gravel. The wheels absorbed a lot of the bone shaking that I experienced with the stock wheels. The sections where the stock wheels were bouncing around and I felt like I was on a bucking horse felt much more tame with the G23's. As a result I was able to hold a lot more speed going down which probably added to the punchy feel at the bottom when things started heading back up. The Re-Fuse tires don't have much tread to speak of but when i hit a corner a little fast the tires and wheels responded and held the line really well. All in all I was impressed.
Susan and I talked about the wheels a lot. She doesn't have nearly as much experience on bikes as I do but she noticed a lot of the same things I did (I asked her first before I added my experience). The biggest drawback to the G23's is the price. It's more than we paid for the bikes! However, we did get these bikes at a demo sale so we got two of them for about what we'd pay for 1 new one. So there is that. I researched a lot of wheels and these have the best warranty of any others that I was considering. To compare things I configured a few wheels on line with carbon rims and the same hubs and spokes and they would cost around $1,700-1,800. Tacoma Bike offered these to me with tires, cassette, and rotors for $2,600 so that is a savings of about $300. Every review I've read about them says they're great but one by Guitar Ted in Riding Gravel caught my attention. He said that he had a set of early Enve MTB rims that he laced up and he'd been riding them for 10 years without a problem and that Enve had gotten better since then. So we decided to bite the bullet and get them. Another way to look at this, even though I spend $2600 on a new set of wheels, I've only got $800 more into this bike that if I had bought a new one and I'd still have stock wheels on it. At least that's one way to justify it. 😉
Bonus points, Enve tested these wheels to MTB standards so I can get different end caps and freewheel and use them on my MTB. It should work well for Leadville type CX races.
PS: Mike talked to the Enve dealer yesterday and he may be able to get me a second set a bit cheaper. We'll see. 😁