Are we training too hard? Not an 80/20 question
Just putting this out for discussion. While we race on zwift and do intervals to chase down our weaknesses on our power curves from Wko4 or 5 are we not working all our zones? Is a 100 mile ride a week an appropriate z1-2 ride to build up the benefits of an aerobic ride? Do we end up doing our last 8 weeks before a race in the "grey " zone? Never going easy enough to let us do the hard work really hard?
Someone asked last year "does Zwift make us a better triathlete?" I guess i would also ask does it make us worse?
this however is not just a zwift issue although I have gotten a bit frustrated that the "new CNC official" rides have gotten to more blue green ( zones 2, 3 and a little 4) and less grey red. Just wondering what others thoughts were.
Comments
@Robert Sabo I'm interested in the answer to this. My training years have been a bit of flip flopping between HIT and lots of volume. Not sure I've found the best balance yet!
@Robert Sabo An excellent question, and there is a short answer, and a much longer answer.
The short answer is that if you are asking the question, then the answer about what to do about this is fairly obvious. In this case you should work with @PatrickMcCrann to map out your season, and load the agreed plans and follow them as you are able. And, of course, stay in touch with him to fine tune and tweek the current plan as appropriate.
The longer answer is the reason I have moved off the EN Plan reservation until the final race prep stage, where I follow the plan (with a few minor changes) until my race. I will post these details in the next few days explaining my position. It will be a longish post, and will give you insight into the answer ton your "how much of this stimulus is enough" question.
if i understand what you are asking:
for me:
this last outseason I got sick a lot. I think related to too much zwift racing.
stopped racing for the latest Iron build. I think as we get closer to an Ironman, the workouts should be be more controlled so we can carefully do what needs to be done and not overdue it.
though I am overall stronger at the start of this new and current outseason. I might be able to tolerate more all out stuff. I plan maximum two races per week. mostly one. and fill in with outseason type ftp and vo2 work.
and back to race specific stuff for the ten weeks until the Ironman.
I am sure this varies per person and recovery ability. and age factors in.
Interested in the ideas of others.
Not weighing in on the specifics of plans, rides, Zwifting, etc...But I will note that Recovery is the key to improvement. We pay a lot of attention to length, intensity, and number of intervals, watts, HR, pace, power, etc. We should pay equal attention to planning for and executing our recovery, during workouts, between workouts, over the course of several months, and year-to-year. Learning about how nutrition, sleep, attention to subtle subjective signs of excessive training contribute to improved fitness is just as important as hitting specific workout targets and frequencies. As someone once noted, We never get stronger during a workout; we only get stronger when we allow ourselves to rest and consolidate the gains.
Knowing when, how much and how often to recover is the secret to athletic success.
Okay, here is a more useful answer from me - my long answer.
I use the OS to push up my FTP and VO2 max as far as I can using WKO4 until I load the EN Race Specific Plan.
To do this I break the OS into two blocks.
At the start of Block 1, I check the Power Profile Pack in WKO4. If you haven't been working at durations below 5 mins, it probably looks like this.
No sign of 5 sec or 1 min durations - meaning these durations are much less developed than 5 mins and 20 mins.
So in Block 1 I do one session a week of Pmax sets, and two interval sets per week to push up power from 1 sec to 3 mins. At the same time I want to push up VO2 max by trying to accumulate 10 to 15 mins of >=95% of power at VO2 max. The weekly bike progress report in WKO4 lists the week's work at those intensities. Note that I don't do any intervals of greater than 3 mins in Block 1.
I would continue Block 1 until the 5 sec and 1 min max power/kg in the WKO 4 Power Profile Pack were of a comparable height as the 5 mins and the 20 mins. However, I also need to leave enough time (weeks) to push up my FTP using traditional z 4 intervals. This has happened this year as I have missed 7 months of training, and I have just over 20 weeks until my A Race. So I will finish Block 1 soon.
In Block 2, I do one VO2 max interval session per week. Because I have been focusing on durations of 3 mins or less in Block 1, I would focus these intervals on the 4 to 8 min durations.
In addition I would do two traditional FTP sessions a week with WKO4 choosing the target power and duration of the intervals.
When I am 12 weeks out from my A Race, I load up the EN specific Plan.
Now it is a little more complicated than this because I need to incorporate running, gym rehab (as I am still dealing with knee and glute weaknesses), and fatigue as I as closing in on my 68th birthday, and so on.
Happy to elaborate more detail, as well as the "why" I use this approach.
The diversity of age, experience, size, and body-type makes every athlete unique. Time-crunched is a reality, however, not optimal. Group training and racing has a huge social component. The plans are based on solid physiology and experience... but what I lack more than anything else is patience.
discussion.
I think we’ve seen a real evolution of EN with the introduction of the Run
Durability focus that removed hours of intensity from our plans.... does
anyone else remember how hard it was to “sell” that to the Team? 😂
~ Coach P
@Robert Sabo I am very interested in these answers. There was a very similar discussion in the Female Locker Room GroupMe (women only ) :-) I asked how many were actually following EN plans as written. In the end we are self coached athletes. Master Female athletes have their own challenges with the demand for extra recovery, different muscle mass, ect.
Do intervals to chase down our weaknesses on our power curves from Wko4 or 5 are we not working all our zones?
Is a 100 mile ride a week an appropriate z1-2 ride to build up the benefits of an aerobic ride?
Do we end up doing our last 8 weeks before a race in the "grey " zone?
Never going easy enough to let us do the hard work really hard?
Does Zwift make us a better triathlete?" I guess i would also ask does it make us worse?
"new CNC official" rides have gotten to more blue green ( zones 2, 3 and a little 4) and less grey red.
In this very long lecture that is making the rounds many of the Robert's question might just be answered. I like this version posted below, because you can see his graphs.
Dr Stephen Seiler talks about polarized training. It's not new but I think we've drifted (no pun) away from it. Many years ago :-0 when I started marathon training it was the LSD, Long Slow Distance, Arthur Lydiard approach. My speed work was fartleks and hill repeats and the rest was durability running. It worked great. At the end of this talk he mentions cardiac drift, worth a listen on how to train to avoid it.
If we are looking for more and bigger mitochondria then volume has to be there. Perhaps @Coach Patrick achieved this with the mass of bike volume he did this year.
Now we have Zwift which in my observation, if one is not disciplined to ride their ride it defies anything about 80/20. It is my understanding that not much is gained in the grey zone, ie Zone 3. It's not hard enough for fitness gains and not easy enough for recovery and building mitochondria.
** Very interested in answers to @Robert Sabo
Here is the study in hard copy.
Here is the teh Ted Talk version
@Robert Sabo My experience has been mixed. Certainly if you look at the overall design of the OS plans, they alternate between weeks with longer Z3 intervals and those with shorter ZA5 intervals with recovery. So the alternation of those types of training is proven effective.
If you are asking if Zwift racing can lead one to overtrain and not recover adequately, then I think that is certainly an issue. On the other hand, I spent much of the spring and early summer racing Zwift 1-2 times a week in addition to the get faster workouts and bumped my FTP to an all-time high at age 56.
I think @Al Truscott is right on point with his comments about Recovery. That metric has become more important for me to follow because if I overtrain, my performance suffers noticeably.
@Sheila Leard That video is certainly a good reminder that low intensity workouts are important and this is certainly reflected in the transition of the running workouts to the Run Durability format as noted by Coach P above.
In relation to Z3 vs Z2 work on the bike, Training and Racing with a Power Meter (page 49, Table 3.2 second edition) shows Z3 work gives a bigger adaption than Z2 across all categories (eg increased plasma volume, increased mitochondrial enzymes, increased lactate threshold, increased glycogen storage, etc etc) for a given dose of training.
Also 1 hour @ IF of 0.75 gives a TSS of 56, compared to an hour @ IF of 0.85 gives a TSS of 72 (more training bang for a given time).
For these reasons, I hardly ever do any Z2 work, unless I am in race preparation phase of an IM build - where specificity trumps these other considerations.
Thanks @Robert Sabo ! I am also interested in this discussion. In relation to " I have gotten a bit frustrated that the "new CNC official" rides have gotten to more blue green ( zones 2, 3 and a little 4) and less grey red."
I have not done a CnC ride in a while, but one of the reasons I loved that ride is that it traditionally was grey and red in my experience (or at least pretty polarized). I'm sorry to hear if it is drifting toward a more middle intensity ride. I think it is easy to get blue green with most of the other zwift events and even some races.
However, one of the difficulties for ride leaders is obviously dealing with a group of varying power numbers. I think this also relates to the training effect someone gets from racing in Zwift. If you are near the top of your category, I think you can get polarized training during a zwift race more often. But if you are near the bottom of your category, you are less likely to get polarized training during a race. I've experienced this coming back from injury and moving from one category to the next.
Maybe we can ask CnC ride leaders to spend a little more time riding easier and regrouping after the hard efforts (I hate to ask more of them since they are volunteering already and already get a ton of criticisms from people in the rides). The new fence feature should make it easier to relax the pace of the group.