Mimicking vert with treadmill and/or stair climber

Patrick Large

Living in the Netherlands makes training for a 100k with a total elevation gain of 6740 meter (22110') very challenging.

I belong to a gym close by my house and the trails I run on which has both treadmills (duh) and stair climbers. I am planning on a lot of 15% power hikes on the treadmill and possibly vertical K's on the stair climber.

I am looking into the future (specifically closer to my race dates when specificity matters)... And wondering how I can work these into my long runs. I was thinking something like 1.5 hour run on the trails, run to the gym and power hike for an hour on the treadmill or stair climber, and then another 1.5 hours on the trail.

I can also look at swapping out any hill repeats / speed work sessions for these.

Thoughts on this?

@Gabe Peterson @Francis Picard @Tim Sullivan @tim cronk @Brian Hagan @Steve boer @Peter Noyes @Coach Patrick

tim cronk

@Patrick Large as many on GM already mentioned descending maybe your more difficult puzzle to solve than climbing. Your plan above is fine for climbing (it is what you have) a good mix of stairclimber/incline tread mill. It could be argued climbing is more important because it takes longer so you will always spend more time climbing but its the descending that will trash your quads to the point your legs dont want to work anymore. Now is a good time for you to reread your Zugspitz and Grand Canyon stuff documentation, to relive , rethink lessons learned. How did your quads feel when you hit the Colorado river? You will need to find a way to get in descending, buildings? , staircases? stadiums? BTW I like your style , I live in Holland flat as a pancake but sign up for events with 20k elevation change :-)

Patrick Large

@tim cronk thanks for this. Yes descending will also be a challenge.

And check on all of these:  buildings? , staircases? stadiums?

I also have a 1k round trip up a pyramid and back down. That may have to do.

I think like many, a big draw to ultras is getting off the pavement into the mountains. Being in the mountains is the best feeling in the world. You know better than any of us, these aren't your average destination races 😁

This is church!!

robin sarner

i follow a guy on facebook that does tons of downhill miles on his treadmill. he puts the back of the treadmill up on blocks.

Patrick Large

@robin sarner super interesting. may have to see if I can do that

Tim Sullivan

Any climbing is good. Do you have any parking garages where you are? Parking garages would get you downhill running also. Or run stairs inside a building or better at a stadium? My TM has -6% but I like the idea of the blocks in back. Also not hard to lift the back is the TM.

As for timing I would say to mix it up. Sometimes run first and get tired and then climb and other times climb first and then try to run

Patrick Large

Thanks @Tim Sullivan

I have most of the above mentioned so may just need to mix it up.

Gabe Peterson

@Patrick Large as @tim cronk said the downhill is the killer, and the thing most ultrarunners fail to prepare for. There are treadmills that have decline. Perhaps your gym has one. Otherwise, I'd find whatever hill you do have and do repeats: easy jog or hike up, then run down hard. This should be on a soft surface like dirt or grass. Don't do this on pavement or stairs, because of the risk of injury. Your quads should feel trashed. Better to be sore in training than on race day.

When I lived in the North beyond the Wall, I'd run on a hilly route on Zwift and match the incline on the treadmill, but it doesn't decline. I even ran Alp du Zwift a couple times. Then I'd run hard downhill when I got outside.

Patrick Large

Thanks @Gabe Peterson I am trying to do everything I can to NOT do the hill repeats I have 10-15 times, but it may be what I need to do.

Your thoughts on the treadmill with the back on blocks?? interesting no?

Patrick Large

@tim cronk

"BTW I like your style , I live in Holland flat as a pancake but sign up for events with 20k elevation change :-)"

So many catch phrases or sound bites I could echo here.

But honestly "Go big or go home" "Everything Large" "put up or shut up" "YOLO"

If not the above then whats the point 😀

Thanks again for your words.

Gabe Peterson

@Patrick Large I've heard of ultrarunners putting cinder blocks under the back of the treadmill for downhill. I'd think that if the treadmill has a running bed that folds up if would be easy enough to do. I heard a podcast where ultrarunner Sally McRae said she does that. I've always been able to get outside at least once a week, so never tried it myself.

Patrick Large

What about climbing for 17-18 minutes 15% on the treadmill and then getting on the leg extension machine for 2:00-3:00. I've only done that machine for reps not time, but 2-3 minutes sounds brutal. And quads will 100% be fried.

That set x3 and I would imagine that'as an hour you'll have trouble walking after.

Gabe Peterson

Check out this Ginger runner podcast with the Roche coaches. They had a
good discussion about preparing for mountainous Ultras for Flatlanders.

GRL #291 | Megan & David Roche - Ask A Running Coach! by Ginger Runner LIVE
https://player.fm/1zRJHE #nowplaying

robin sarner

Jonathan Savage. On Facebook. The endurance runner that talks about the treadmill on blocks. And did shoe reviews.

Patrick Large

Thanks @Gabe Peterson I like the ginger runner. I can never say "ginger running" without hearing it sung like in the opening of his podcast.

Thanks @robin sarner I'll check him out.

tim cronk

@Patrick Large 2 things I would consider if I was specificity challenged
for descending would be plyometrics (box jumps) and jumprope.

Patrick Large

@Gabe Peterson just listened to GRL... awesome. thanks for the suggestion!!!