Ultra Run Planning Webinar 4/8
On Wednesday April 8th at 9pm EST I will be playing HOST to the EN Ultrarun Planning Webinar.
Anything and everything Ultra .
Questions or topics you'd like to see? Post em here.
Cya wednesday night!
tagged in no particular order those I think are interested and current ultrarunning partners in crime, sorry for those I missed. @Brenda Ross @Coach Patrick @Gabe Peterson @Clark Mitchell @Tim Sullivan @Scott Imlay @Leslie Knight @Patrick Large @Francis Picard @Steve boer @Brian Hagan @Robert Sabo @Rob @scott dinhofer @Scott Giljum @Danielle Santucci @Jenn Edwards @Peter Noyes @Bill Manard @Nam Lam @Al Truscott @Trent Prough@Carl Alleyne @maurice matthews
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Comments
oh shit I made the "stoopid" list. I'm a hard 50/50, but have plans to set a middle of the night alarm to chat with you fools.
@tim cronk Right in the nick of time! @Larry Peters , @maurice matthews and I just decided to do a 50 miler in June. We're going to need ALL of the tips! haha
@Carl Alleyne means December😉
Question: How to prepare for climate/terrain that's not native to your training environment? I live in SoFla with one place that has hills(1.25 mile loop). The race will be near Tennessee in December.
Some questions:
What are the factors in Course Dictated Terrain? Elev gain per mile? Other (roots, rocks, river crossings)?
What is an appropriate run/walk strategy? Walk the uphills and run the rest - anything else?
Should we be training to increase our walking speed? Especially on steep climbs?
What training should I do to avoid destroying my quads during the 8,500' of downhill running on race day?
In all seriousness, aren't these recorded?
Where can I find it?
Thank you everybody!
Good Skill this weekend @Leslie Knight
@Patrick Large assuming I didnt screw it up, YES it was recorded.. @Coach Patrick probably needs a few days to get it posted.
Thanks @tim cronk
The original plan was to set a 2:30 am alarm and jump on the 3:00 am call with coffee in hand, however my wife is not a heavy sleeper and if she wakes up during the evening, forget it, she isnt going back to sleep!!! If she came out to the living room at 3am and saw me online with all your hooligans, I would have burned all my SAU's for the next 10 years!!
I'll catch the video :)
But thanks for hosting, I am sure there are a lot of nuggets in that talk.
@Patrick Large @tim cronk asked Coach P about the recording and his response is...
recorded on Zoom. it takes us more than 24 hours to finalize everything. I need to download, get notes, produce, put on page, publish, etc.
All good @Brenda Ross This is just one I really wanted to attend and couldn't so I want to hear/see the recording.
hey all- Question on pacers.
I've got a 100k in Aug (hopefully still on) and I am allowed a pacer starting at the 65K point. The last 35k+ has two 3000ft+ climbs and ends will a shorter climber, but no doubt a kick in the nuts. I'd say by the 65K mark, I'll be hurting. The race has a total vert gain of 22110'
You dont need a pacer. But I like one. The longer, more difficult, time in the dark, etc, when the shit hits the fan you will be happy to have an extra brain. Its company and back up, not really a pacer, you dictate the pace, some may benefit from someone pushing you. I had a friend DNF cause he freaked out in the dark. Some races like Leadville even allow muling. I wish I had one for Leadville. There are many benefits and few drawbacks to a pacer IMO.
Choosing a Pacer - someone you know is preferable, someone you can put up with for the duration, they only need to keep up to you for the anticipated pace/distance to be paced, so they dont need to be faster than you, but they do need to be able to handle that last 35k with 3k of climbing with some relative ease , most importantly someone who will commit to you , an organized individual you feel will prepare 100% for themselves so they can easily focus on you , communicates well, wont back out , will understand if you DNF and they dont "get to run". Its a lot to ask of someone and why I strongly believe we should experience it ourselves, its a good way to pay back , learn both sides, and great training to boot!
Your qualifications for a piece or almost sound like some kind of a
personality test versus a fitness test. Out of curiosity, what would you
recommend the pacer have under their belt in terms of experience? Ideally
they've done a marathon and are familiar with trail running. But if there's
some other level of qualification that you would consider to be a baseline?
Since I babbled so much I put it back in here. For a 100 mile pacer I'd say minimum 50k event on similar terrain with night experience!
LOL @Coach Patrick I do view the pacer/crew to be almost more of a compatible personality than I do compatible fitness person. Its not just spending the last 30 miles running with one person its a lot more. For an Ultraman you are living, eating,sleeping with your crew/pacers for 5-6 days. For a 100 mile Ultra figure 3 days. If you are pacer/crew you will possibly see your athlete at their absolute worst and if you are the athlete you can expect to be seen at your worst. That is why I think its so important, it will help assure the best possible outcome of the event and post event relations. You dont really get to know someone until you spend a few days with them in a bit closer quarters, perhaps a good litmus test would be a EN camp.
As far pacer qualifications - It depends on the event segment, length , time of day, etc. For UMFL I asked my pacers to be able to run 3-5 mile blocks at 9min mile pace, For UMAZ I was planning 3-5 mile blocks of 9.5-10' pace. For Leadville I was planning on mostly hiking by the time pacing would be allowed and pacer segments were 10-15 miles . Many 100's pacing is allowed from 70-100 miles, so that pacer needs to be able to go 30 miles at night
Bottomline- I think a pacer for someone running a 100 should have at least 1 50k event under their belt of similar terrain. And some experience running at night! Its the athletes job to make sure those choices are correct , by evaluating a pacer past performance and then making a decision . Most people will be a bit nervous about it and will prepare accordingly and take it very seriously.
The Athlete is Responsible for everything that goes wrong! - Even if the athlete does everything right and the crew/pacers screw up its the athletes fault... The athlete is the CEO of said crew even if they have assigned a crew Chief. OWN it. Mistakes happen and if you chose these people its your fault. No one will mess up on purpose. I feel strongly about this after a guy I know who failed at RAAM did nothing but blame his crew over everything, he refused to take any responsibility for anything. Sound familiar these days LOL? I have also witnessed athletes in an Ultra yelling at their pacers/crews its like WTF those people are here for you!
All this is why I so strongly recommend pacing for someone. When you commit to that you find a different level of preparedness and awareness for you and your athlete.
@tim cronk this is all very helpful, thanks so much. Makes me think that the person I would like to pace the last 35k may not have the chops to do it.
But also like you said, if they take on the challenge, they (and I know my guy would) come to the event with a preparedness maybe they wouldn't have for their own 35k 3000m vert race.
@Patrick Large IMO the worst possible outcomes .
@tim cronk both great points.
this 100k has 6700m of climbing, so at 65k I'm not sure I'm dropping anyone!!! HAHAHA
@Patrick Large asking someone to pace is a big ask. I don't think you need a pacer for a 100k. I've done races with and without pacers. I'd say I general prefer to go without crew and pacers. You're almost guaranteed to be off you target times because there are so many variables in an ultra. That means your pacer and crew sit around for hours and hours. Then I'd worry that I was letting them down. I did Moab 240 without pacers or crew and it was liberating.
I don't feel "guilty" if they are pacing because they want to do the race in the future. Then they're also getting something out of it by learning the course.
@Gabe Peterson To be honest I am shocked that the 100k offers the option of pacers. That being said it is almost 22k feet vert in only 60 miles, that's a LOT of up and down.
I was really only thinking of having a pacer because it is free for them and I would enjoy the company. I think that my buddy would love hiking/running 35K in the Swiss alps. For a 100K with 6700m vert, I think the fatigue will be more physical than mental.
In terms of having a pacer overall, I am not sure. When it comes to running I am a bit of a loner. Always train, travel, and race solo. The off times that I run with someone, I tend to talk their ears off 😀
My initial question was more "if you have the option do you always take one?" I am seeing now that the answer not a definite yes.