Building Leg Strength
In all honesty, I'm shaped a bit like Mr. Potato Head (if he actually had legs). My core is sturdy, but my appendages are lanky. Never really concerned me before, but now I have a goal to dramatically increase my FTP.
I started training for Triathlon 2 years ago, and have made a lot of progress. My form is getting better, my workout and race planning is getting smarter and my fitness is great... but I am concerned that my body doesn't naturally put on weight easily, and that is limiting my ability to build leg strength. But TRYING to gain weight is pretty counter to my former approach of dropping weight while maintaining strength to get higher w/kg...
Could I develop a nutrition plan, in conjunction with a heavy cycling routine (ie. OutSeason), that would be conducive to adding muscle mass in my legs/glutes to help expedite FTP development? Or, should I just keep chugging along... work hard & eat healthy, and let nature take its course?
Curious if anyone else has attempted anything like this?
Comments
@Rob Tune I hear your pain! LOL.
(usual disclainers re not being a coach etc)
IMO, the best strategy is
(a) get as lean as you can. There are many threads here on this subject to give you ideas. I went to a sports nutritionist who got me to fill out a food diary for a month to see what I liked to eat. Using my food preferences, he devised a eating plan for the rest of my life that has the right amount of macro nutrients with a 500 cal a day deficit (sufficient to loose about a pound a week). Then fuel all workouts of an hour or more, plus important recoveries (I use chocolate milk for this. Yum!). Eg, for example my evening meal (carb and protein part that is) a choice of 200 gms of fish, or 150 grams of lean meat, or 200 gms chic pears, or etc; and 400 gms of potatoes (sweet or otherwise), or 1 cup of cooked rice, or 4 slices of bread, or cuscus etc.
You should be aiming for a body composition around 10% body fat. I use Evolt active system to set targets (needs a consultation), and then my fat/scale to monitor progress. There are other clinical systems that are similar. My fat scale underestimates my body fat so that is why I need the Evolt system to "calibrate" my fat scale.
BTW, I was shocked that my body fat was 18% at what I considered my 'race weight' (was 68 kgs. I now race at 60 kgs). Body composition is a long/medium term project. I try and hit race weight 4 weeks from my A race, and then stabilise. After my A race I let my weight rise by 10% of my race weight. When I start the Out Season, I start to get serious about sticking to my eating plan. Always give yourself plenty of time to hit your race weight.
(b) follow the general EN plans which have really good hard science behind them to optimise your physical adaption to the you do. It usually takes 3 to 5 years training to top-out you general improvement. When you get there, there are special plans to help you break through the plateaus.
(c) Just use strengthening to ensure proper muscle balance plus core strength to resist injuries. I have a program designed by a physio and go to the gym twice a week (a family outing which keeps up my SAUs).
Happy to expand/elaborate.
Cheers
Peter
@Rob Tune
I don't know if you need to put on weight and as Peter mentioned my first thought would be to utilize weights to address muscle imbalances. Having said that if leg strength is a limiter then perhaps it is a focus for you.
A couple anecdotal notes from team members.
1) A team mate noted doing a weight loss program with his wife and felt this affected his FTP. There has been discussion on amount of protein to help limit muscle loss during weight loss. For me personally I've come down from 260 lb to 190 and have noticed considerably smaller legs. I come from an 18 year career in figure skating with quite large legs, chicken arms like potato head as well. Coming up on 50 I've noticed the strength going down, in part I believe due to the weight loss.
2) Al Truscott does weights religiously and I recall him upping his weight and causing knee issues. I want to pick a number but don't recall off hand but it was a decent amount of weight he was squatting.
3) One quick study I found with small numbers shows increases in determinants for cycling from weight lifting but they are more for the short course/track athlete it seems. Both the non-weight and weight lifting groups saw increases in the 40 minute all out trial. Of course these were well trained cyclists not sure of the age of the cohort
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/40447344_Effect_of_heavy_strength_training_on_thigh_muscle_cross-sectional_area_performance_determinants_and_performance_in_well-trained_cyclists
Thanks @Peter Greagg and @Gordon Cherwoniak !
I wanted to clarify some things from my original message... I actually don't want to put on weight, I want to put on muscle in my legs specifically (poor choice of words earlier). Totally agree with advice to lean up as much as possible.
I'm intrigued by the Evolt system and will look into it more, including alternatives. My smart scale is nice, but who knows how accurate it is???
I also think it's clear that I need to sharpen my recovery nutrition regiment. I'm very good about fueling, but not so much after the workout. I could be smarter about when and what I am taking post workout.
Finally, it seems that adding extra leg workouts is not uncommon. I think the key to this is to take it slowly, don't burn out or hurt myself.
@Rob Tune
In my experience, my leg muscularity has not had much direct correlation on my FTP. I started the outseason last year at 325w and now sit around 385w+. My body weight hasn't changed nor have my legs changed significantly. I would focus on the bike work in the outseason and not worry about adding weight training sessions. The key is hitting every workout every week. Stringing together tough weeks that build fatigue through the training blocks. The bike work is intense enough, and if you don't feel that way 3 -5 weeks in, then your FTP may not be accurate. This year I focused on good nutrition to stay fueled and healthy, the workouts, and recovery/sleep and saw huge gains. In years past, I didn't hit these key pillars (rest/recovery being the primary miss) and around 8-10 weeks in I would fail workouts and need a week off. This year I was able to power through and increase cycling volume and come out the other side significantly stronger. I would be happy to tell you more about my protocols throughout last outseason if you are interested.
Also, really consider taking part in the next best bike camp once you are done with your run streak. It will open your eyes to the different tools you may be neglecting to see the FTP gains you are seeking.
@jrbenson4@gmail.com
I and I'm sure others would be interested in your protocols if you wanted to share. That is a massive 60+ watts increase over the 14 weeks of Outseason and although i totally agree with your comments about consistency, recovery, sleep, i still can't reconcile the massive FTP increase with what i did earlier for Outseason (my FTP improved but not by your ~ 20%). Did you add mobility / strength training? did you follow the plan to the letter really taking a day off when the plan called for one? what's your secret?
Very cool perspective @jrbenson4@gmail.com , thanks for sharing! And I completely agree with @Vincent Sivirine , please share your protocol.
Everything you describe about nutrition, failing workouts, needing time off happened to me last year shortly after OutSeason. My FTP rose about +45watts (started very low though), and shortly after I actually had to back it down. This is part of the reason why I think my Nutrition and Recovery still need work. I also need to get better at testing.
Excited to hear more details. Thanks!
@Vincent Sivirine
To clarify, the 60w took place from Nov 1 to Aug 1. I attribute the gain to the below:
Outseason ~8%
In-Season Get Faster Plan ~5-7%
Remainder is 9 months of consistency.
In years past, I didn't take recovery seriously enough and really struggled to make it through OS on schedule. The OS plan is a progression, so if you skip a week or fail a large majority of a big FTP workout, the following week is only going to be that much harder.
For recovery - I was doing #allthethings.
I think these things not only helped me get through the OS, but thrive through it.
In prior years I also thought a 4 hour week with 350 TSS was decent. This year I started with the first 4-6 weeks hitting the workouts as prescribed in that 350-400 TSS range. Then I started to add volume by tacking on extra ride time to workouts. I built to 6 hours the 7. TSS of 450-600 week after week looks like mountains when compared to my prior years' volumes.
Fair warning, this is my opinion - I believe big gains in bike fitness are accomplished once you are hitting a diverse range of zones and riding a minimum of 5 hours a week. Any less and I think its a lot easier to plateau. I also take the approach with interval training where the last interval is where the gains are made. If I hit 3 of 4 intervals and miss the 4th, I didn't do even half of the assigned work. That's what I tell myself when things get hard.
I also loved the structure of building the last interval. I rode at 100% for the first ones and then on the last began adding percentage points to the watts either in trainer road or zwift. You can surprise yourself what you are capable of which only strengthens your self belief when it comes to hit it again the next hard workout.
Nutritionally I did drink Gatorade Endurance. I also like EEAs (essential amino acids) a lot for during the day prior and I always went in to these workouts hydrated by Nuun or something else. IT is so critical to not get behind over the course of a day or week in the winter. You are not sweating as much and may not think about it, but a deficiency here will present itself in a 2 x 20 FTP workout.
Additionally, get yourself a BAF - big ass fan. I went to home depot and bought Commercial Electric 30" drum fan. I want my heart to focused on pumping blood to my legs that are doing the work, not focused on trying to cool itself because I am on a stationary bike. Its tough to believe the HR differences from cooled versus not cooled riding, particular when you are doing FTP work in an enclosed space. As an example, as I am training for IMFL. I have done several zwift rides at 4+ hours with an avg hr of 148. Not difficult, just IM watts. When I do the same effort outdoors, I average low to mid 130s. You will limit the amount of work your body and legs can do in any given session if your body also has to focus on cooling itself.
Finally, this may sound woo woo to some. I think the Halo Neuroscience headset works. Look it up. It sounds silly, but its legit and my personal opinion is that it is a difference making when you are also checking all of these other boxes and looking for that final few percentage points.
Also, @Rob Tune, keep in mind that you are still new to the sport even with only a couple years in. Be careful and listen to your body as you navigate this hard work especially since you are also run streaking for the 100 days. I have been very fortunate to stay healthy and injury free for years on end. but listen to my body and backing off when needed. Sometimes you have to do the work now to do the work you want to do later, whether you are thinking multiple OS down the road or hitting your training, not overdoing it, so you can race in 2021. Nothing that stays comes quickly, especially FTP gains on the bike. Do it the right way and think long term. Good Luck!
@Rob Tune - i am embarking on this as I have had a recurring hamstring nightmare. I think where leg strength helps is not in actual aid to FTP or run ability, but towards durability. We tend to focus on S-B & R, but nothing else. It does take a lot of time to do more. but, there is value to doing work on Glutes, hamstrings, calves, lower back & core. All of this will support your structure better when your front of leg muscles tire in longer training and events.
@Scott Alexander as someone who's primary limiter has always been injuries, I completely agree. I'm currently doing PT for yet another recurrence of a chronic lower back injury. My PT has me doing all the usual stuff (squats, deadlifts, hip bridges, lower back hypers, elastic band side-steps, etc.) but one exercise in particular he swears by. He claims that the ability to do Nordic curls is the single biggest predictor of running injuries, whether it be in endurance sports, sprinting, soccer, whatever. These things are an absolute bear, but are the gold standard of eccentric hamstring exercises. Word of caution, start EASY. I see all of these exercises as primarily injury prevention, which (at least in my case) would actually have massive performance benefits if I could manage to string together a couple of injury-free seasons instead of constantly re-starting from square one.
@jrbenson4@gmail.com
Thanks Jonathan for the very thorough response. I actually have printed it, it is very complete and insightful as you touched on technology, nutrition, sleep and the mental aspect of these hard workouts.
The biggest takeaway from your protocol in my opinion is how each workout is approached, both at a micro level (recovery the night before, being rested, nutrition, the mental game to be able to finish this last interval) and at the same time as a macro level with each workout being part of a bigger chain which, consistently performed with the right recovery, will drive your fitness much higher. This is EN way but performed much more rigorously and at a higher level than what i'm personally doing (when i failed this last interval i was like "ok, at least i was able to do 3.5 intervals", kind of giving myself a pass).
As for technology (Normatec, ChiliPad, Halo Sport), not sure i can invest in all but with a birthday coming soon (and Christmas), maybe i can hint at the wife and kids for a nice present.
Having shared BBC with you and following your training to IM Florida it's pretty clear that you found something which is really working. Not sure i can add 60w to my FTP but i will definitely apply your protocol (or at least some components) and your mindset towards bike improvements.
Again, thank you very much for sharing and all the best for Panama City.
Hello,
I agree with the above But let me add a bit..
It is tough to loose fat While performing well And maintaining muscle mass....Particularly at 30 and much more >40 yr old due to natural hormone changes.... That said usually with Good nutrition and normal training most will lean out over time till down to around 18-22%BF.
past that takes making a concerted effort for fat loss which may make muscle mass gain and WKO efficiency diminish. - Thus the work on body comp during "off season" so as to not hut fitness gains if trying to "Build and Cut" at same time (20 somethings seem to be able to LOL)
Study's suggest that 1 day week per body part MINIMUM for strength/mass with 2/day likely ideal....Personally I like a "Legs day, Upper (back/chest/arms) 2 day split with Core (usually As a wake up routine) 3+ days 5-15 min with IDEALLY 5 days of Before bed stretch/foam roll ....
These WKOs Have the purpose of:
1) TRI specific Strength 2)Auxiliary muscle (stabilizers/Balance/Pre-Hab)
"Mass" is a secondary benefit (shoulder bulk helps stabilize old Labral tear) But NOT my goal. However Leg (thigh) muscle size Will grow with the Cycling and such Even w/o Heavy Leg Gym work (vs running) and so will Lats w/ swimming etc. Realy Not something that will necessarily improve your performance in endurance sport anyway.
That said ... I am a fan Of Kettel Bell and Body weight WKOs and I DO - DO Heavy free weight strategically... I Do a similar Weight training as Triathlon Terran and have again incorporated the Walking lunges and HEX BAR DL from Bicycling Maximum Overload for Cyclists
(not sure why the big print LOL) ANYWAY I REALY DON'T DO HEAVY BACK Squat And much bigger fan of the HEX DL for safety reasons. If you cant do Light Single leg Romanian DL and Single leg stand from siting on bench dont add weight . Single leg strength Much more applicable to TRI *AND all sport/life ...and be sure to incorporate Pre-hab such as HIP and GLUTE work, Shoulder multi angle and Lateral Movement drills (Tri is to linear and you need to train Pivot and Side forces)
With any mass gain you will improve resting metabolism and Thus more fatloss as well ... just keep chipping away!