New to Power Training: Bike Test
Hi Everyone,
I am new to both team endurance and training with power. I did my first bike test this week using my new iBike. I entered the information into the data tool, and i had one quick question. For weight, do we put in our individual weight or total bike weight?
Also, what is typical zone 4 wattage for someone in week 4 of training? I'm a fairly new cyclist, at it for a little over a year. Just hoping to get some benchmarks so I know how to improve. Saw Contador's 6 W / Kg, and guessing that is a little high 
Found this too online and wondering how accurate it is: http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/constant/wattkilobench.htm
Thanks for the help!
Adam
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Comments
Hi Adam - Welcome aboard!
For your specific question about w/kg, it is based on your Functional Theshold Power divided by your weight - as low as you can honestly admit to!. No bike, no clothes, no nothing.
Now, power numbers, like heart rate zones, are highly individual. So comparing absolute FTPs is pretty worthless - I often end up feeling like a wimp. W/kg is supposed to normalize that a bit, but, again, it will depend on a lot of factors, like experience in training, where you are in your training cycle, genetics, age, gender, etc. While some people place "standards" on the w/kg - Coach R asserts that 4 w/kg is the minimum you need to start to be "competitive" at the IM distance - it's best looked at as a measure to help you set your training zones, and to try and improve over time. Don't worry about absolute levels.
So, you are your own benchmark - just work on improving YOUR numbers and don't worry about what someone says you "should" be.
That table is included in Coggan's Power book, and is useful mostly for aspiring BICYCLE racers, not triathletes. Bike racers need to worry a lot about the power they can generate in shorter, intense spurts, like catching up to a break, or powering up a hill, or sprinting for the finish line, even though those efforts may be part of a 50-130 mile long race. Triathletes, especially Ironman, are doing something different, trying to maintain a steady power for 1-7 hrs, and still have sufficient strength to achieve a good run split. Comparing ourselves to bike racers won't work - it's really two different sports. We don't need to worry so much about our maximum power at 5 seconds or even at 20 minutes, the way a single sport racer would.
For example, my 20 minute max power is probably 4.15-4.2 w/kg. So that makes me a "CWG" or a "Jersey" rider. Even if I knew what those terms meant (I don't), I still wouldn't know what to do with that information.
One last comment. A few of us in EN use iBikes (myself included, but TriSports just called today to say my PowerTap is on the way), so you can get some support here on using it. But I've found it is very finicky to things like temperature, prolonged stops (> 5 minutes), bumps in the road, etc. It will tend to show much more variability in power, producing a "VI" routinely in the 1.1X range - I'm a pretty steady rider, and I've NEVER had a ride in the 1.0X range, according to my iBike.
Hey Adam
Also keep in mind, these dudes are like 6ft tall rails at 144 pounds...
welcome to the Haus... For the iBike itself - it wants to know total bike weight. For your test data, it's your own body-weight as that is what is measured in the watts per kilo. Many pro guys are at up in at least the high 5's and 6's so that sounds about right for Contador. As the Specialized ad says - his max wattage is 900 vs 899 for Schleck
Scott and Al definitely nailed it with their input!!
Good advice from the others. The key is to focus on your numbers and try to improve them, don't try to compare yourself to others. Between different PM's, body types, etc you'll drive yourself nuts trying to sort it out.
In the end, figure out what your FTP and then benchmark everything you do backwards from that numbers. Our plans are written with power guidance of 70-75%, 80-85%, 95-100%. Just dial this in and do the work.
Much more in the wiki.
Wow guys, thanks for the wealth of information. And yes, I am only interested in trying to "beat myself". I did the test today and had no idea when looking at my numbers what they really meant. Since I'm a business analyst, I compare it to looking at various financial metrics with ZERO formal financial training. I wanted to get a sense of what they stood. Now i'm focused on making sure I do better in the next test.
I understand now too how normalizing for weight is important, which means you can improve your numbers by losing weight or increasing power. I'll read up more on the wiki but @Al and @Tav really helped me out.
And @Craig - isn't that what the zones generally are? In the data tool-bike test/zones, it shows things as Z1-Z5, with Z4 being your FTP (basically, 95%-100%).
thanks again for the help everyone!
@Al - one last question...do you know what about the iBike would get screwed up from stopping? And i just looked up VI - I don't completely understand it. Normalized power / average power: i assume this means you measure VI over a course of a ride? So at a point in the ride, I could be at 3-4 VI if I'm climbing and .3-.4 if I'm descending?
Welcome to the Haus. I may be incorrect but you really do not need to be worrying about your VI on your training rides. As Rich says just get the prescribed work in. make sure your IF hits the goals in the training plan. VI really only comes into play for races and race rehearsals. In those you will want to keep your VI as close to 1.00 as possible, which means you rode at exactly the same wattage the whole race. Of course that is virtually impossible but it is the goal. You should probably purchase the Power Webinar as there is lots of good information in there which would answer most of your questions.
Also, I don't think it is possible to have a VI of 3-4. If you go out on a hilly ride you may see a VI of 1.20 or something like that. That would probably mean that you hammered the uphills and did a fair amount of coasting.
@ Adam - I don 't know anything about either the physical elements of the iBike (accelerometer, wind sensor, etc) or the algorithms used to calculate power and make adjustments. What I observe is that, at times, the % grade displayed and used for calculations seems to just go haywire, and it seems to happen most often with sudden changes in temperature or going from shade to sunlight. Also, after stopping more than five minutes, the head unit needs to re-capture the speed, cadence, and HR transmissions, and on occasion that re-capture process seems to mess up the tilt readings. Maybe I just have a defective unit.
As to Variable Intensity - that's a measure of how steady one is riding. If you never vary from 200 watts during a specific time frame, your VI during that time will be 1.00. I don't think that iBike either displays VI on the unit itself, nor does it calculate VI in the iBike software. I only see it when I transfer my iBike data into WKO+/Training Peaks. Again, I have no clue as to the details of the calculation, although I have read them through several times.
As an example of the VI iBike produces, my most recent race was a week ago, a sprint of 15 miles on a perfectly flat course, during which I was basically on the redline all the way. This course, the flatness, the constant nature of the speed, etc, should produce a VI of 1.03-4, I would think. My VI, even excluding the first and last minute (when I would be speeding up and slowing down) was 1.06. In my most recent IM, the VI was about 1.15. These are quite high, as I understand our coaches' pacing guidelines. Maybe I'm more volatile in my pace than I think, but I'll be interested in comparing what my VI is with my new hub-based PM next month.
I've used iBike.....it's a good place, cheaper to start powertraining but it has significant factors that make it not very accurate.
Its VERY dependent on wind, wind direction, how much your turning, and specifically the horizontal angle of the iBike compared tot he ground. Its HIGHLY variable....you must be very anal about he setup....
My advice,,,for testing.....use a straight road 16 miles or so long, with no/limited turns and a consistent wind. At least your'e comparing apples to apples.
For me, once I used iBike for a summer, I got a Powertap (then a Joule) and took all the futzing with wind, turns, etc. out of the equation.
FWIW....my iBike would measure watts that were MUCH higher than my powertap watts!
@Michael since this is my first time looking at wattage, I have nothing to reference. It is interesting to note the speed / HR per wattage since that's what I'm used to looking at. I was surprised that my FTP was 271 and W/KG was 3.6...I was expecting less. Now I'm wondering if it's simply an overstatement. But I guess the real goal is if you're consistently measuring it wrong, to improve upon whatever you're consistently measuring. That is the real goal, right? Not to compare to others but to compare to yourself across time.
When you say you are surprised by your FTP, how did you come up with it? 271 is a good number, i am right around there myself. Do you consider yourself a strong cyclist? The reason I ask is because sometimes people do get incorrect readings from their tests and you seem to be questioning your result. The real key is if you can actually hold those numbers in the workouts. If your power meter is configured properly you will realize pretty quickly whether or not your FTP is set right when you have to hold it for 10, 12, 15, 20 minutes.
Quick thoughts:
Rich put this nicely, but basically I'm at over 4.5 w/kg because I only weight ~135. Sure it sounds impressive but my actual watts are not that high. Many many times I have seen strong dudes with 300+ Watt FTPs pull away from me on the flats even though their w/kg is a good bit lower. This is exactly why comparing w/kg between riders isn't the best indicator of cycling performance.... but it is the best one we have so we use it losely.
As others have said, just measure what YOUR ftp and w/kg is and then set some goals.
I have an ibike as well. I would be very interested to see how it stacks up against your PT when you get it.
Hi guys - resurrecting this because awaiting my Powertap package from Rich/WB next week. Listened and followed along to all 3 sessions of the Webinar, great stuff. Couple of starter questions:
1) When I get this thing (PT Pro+ with Joule), what's the first thing I should actually *do* with it (given that I will be in week 2 of IM plan for Placid)? - Should I do FTP test immediately on it to get baseline, or should I continue using my current training method (speed zones on a Kurt Kinetic) until scheduled FTP test later on in week 3?
ii) Re: the bike FTP test, I see Coach R's recommended way of 2x20' with a 2' "rest" in between, then analyze by taking avg of interval over whole set. Question - what does "rest" mean? Stop pedaling? Z1 spinning? Starbucks?
c) Exactly which metrics do each of you choose to display on your Joules during both training and racing? If this has been discussed somewhere else I apologize but my search function isn't playing nice tonight.
FOUR) I plan on using my Garmin HR strap with the PT. Should I also couple my Garmin GSC-10 cadence/speed sensor with it? Or do you guys just go with whatever numbers come from the PT?
*) Why are there 4 S's in Mississippi, 4 I's, 2 P's but only one M? (what Chevy Chase movie?)
Thank you all so much!
Liebs
1) I think the advice is usually just ride for a few weeks to figure things out, and then test -that's what I did.
2) I just pedal easy for the 2 minutes
3) I have a Garmin 500, but I display lap time, 3s power (I switch back and forth between this and real time power - not sure which I like best), 30s power, cadence, % ftp, and speed on my main screen. If I had a Joule, I think I'd do the same, and have IF, NP, and TSS on another page.
4) I just use the speed and cadence from the PT. The speed is quite accurate if you set your wheel size accuratetly. Cadence seems to be pretty accurate in the normal cadence ranges. If I had the GSC-10, I'd use it though.
Noticed this thread was reopened. The title best describes my situation...
I am new to power with a PT Pro+, have both a Garmin 310 and a Joule 2.0. I like some of the data on the Joule but find it easier to read the Garmin. I did one FTP trial using Rich's 42 minute road trial. Can I get some input on opinions on which is the best measure of FTP to get both a true baseline and accurately assess progress down the line? I have had some recent technical problems with the the PT device, but when it gets back on line I want to apply it to improve my strategy for IM FL 2011, my first full IM attempt. Unfortunately I didn't get it operational in time to help me as much with FL 70.3 this weekend. Thanks...
As for the best method for determining FTP, well that is a 60min TT. There would be anarchy if we had to do that every 6 weeks so Rich's method, 2x20'(2'), is what we use. Ideally you would use the same course for all of your tests. I'm not sure why you can't use your PT for Florida this weekend. When did you do your last FTP test? Have you progressed from that time? I think you would want to use your PT especially in those conditions.
@Liebs, you're an animal. Can't help you with power Agent. I know in WKO we highlight the 42' section an it spits out a Normalized Power and that is your FTP. Your w/kg is you FTP/weight in kilos. I think you are correct about the setting of FTP but I don't have a Joule. Enjoy the test.
Either way, you can extract the 2 x 20 (or whatever) data, from either of them interchangeably.
@Johnathan: Short answer. Yes on Power Agent. (It's what I do all the time.) And yes on the W/kg. I assume so on the Joule question, but I do not know specifically.
See this page that I wrote a little while back: http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=WKO++options+for+Mac+Users
For those with a Joule, doesn't the Normalized Power metric give us the FTP we want after 42 minutes? (ie, do I even need to create a 42' interval in PowerAgent?)
And just to confirm (yes I watched the Webinars but I have been using HR guidance this past year) - so now that I have an FTP number of watts, for each of my bike workouts going forward I multiply it by the assigned percentage right? (i.e. does "do x number of minutes at 75-80%" mean that if my FTP is 230 then my target wattage range for that workout is 172 - 184 watts?) Do you guys calculate these ranges yourself or use the data tool for power zones?
Thanks so much. Got a feeling I did something right here by taking the power plunge.
JL
Yes you just multiply your FTP by the percentages. And yes the data tool gives you some zones. I calculate them myself as I rarely look at the data tool.
Welcome to a whole new world of training. Follow the plans and you will be all set.
This is what my 42' interval looked like for my first ever FTP test, which if I understand correctly "Average Watts" = my Normalized Power over this interval = my FTP = 236 watts, which becomes my new magic number upon which everything is based until I retest, right?
Thanks guys! Yes, the NP (244) was higher than my average watts (236)! Thanks for pointing out the difference and where to look. Still have a lot of work to do! W/kg=2.5