First PM Purchase
Looking for some help from the haus. I just finished IMLP and now feel I have the time to dedicate to learning all that there is to learn about training and racing with power. I do not have a clue where as to begin though. I do have a Garmin 310XT and in the interest of saving some $$ up front I am looking to use that as the receiving device. Having said that, what do I need to buy? Seems like EN has a relationship with Wheelbuilder. Any other suggestions about where to buy? I'm pretty sure that I do want to go wireless even though I realize I could get a PM cheaper wired.
Any suggestions or recommendations would be appreciated. I have spent a ton of $$ this year on tri geek stuff and looking to keep it to a minimum.
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You definitely want to go wireless. The 310xt will work fine as a head unit and save you a few bucks.
Send Rich an email and he'll quote you for a wheelbuilder PM wheel. He'll ask you a few questions (He'll need to know your weight etc to calculate the number spokes needed etc.).
I ran a Wheelbuilder PM rear wheel at IMLP that Rich hooked me up with and threw on a wheelbuilder wheel cover that I purchased at the same time.
I can PM you the specs of the wheel I ordered if you're interested.
It's definitely a worthwhile investment.
Carly,
I'd go wireless as well. The only real decision you have in the haus is powertap or quark. If you have race wheels the crank based quark maybe the solution for you. I can't give you much info as EN just started offering quarks shortly after my purchase. I am totally happy with the powertap from wheelbuilder.
I don't want to make this more difficult but there are SRM's as well but as has been stated here they are much more expensive for doing the same thing. The SRM is crank based as well, if you are looking to save $$ this is not the option for you.
As has been mentioned the 310XT can be used as a head unit or the little yellow computer that comes with the powertap, quark I don't know but I believe you need some type of head unit. I can't say if the 310 work there or not.
Finally when you are purchasing the PM get the power webinar it will give you a huge boost on the learning curve going in.
Gordon
I have a Quark and I use my 310XT as the head unit. Works great. I like the Quark because I can switch between my tri bike and road bike easily. One thing to consider is to make sure your bottom brackets are synced between bikes.
And I totally hear you Carly on spending too much $$ on tri stuff. I am deeeeep into the "ask for forgiveness and not permission" phase because there would be nooo way the Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee would have appropriated enough funds for this year's purchases!
sorry to jump in... but I'm planning to get a PM in my off season as well (after IMFL) - for the same reason (I'll have time to learn it)...but, reading this is making my head hurt. Should I listen to the webinar first - will it help me make some of these decisions? Or is the webinar better for after, to help me learn how to use it. If the latter, is there a wiki or thread re: helping to make the decision? thanks.
It's not necessary to buy the webinar before you get the PM - it won’t hurt though.
Becky - I think you have time to make the purchase to train/race IMFL - check with the coaches.
1. Decide what type of power meter you would like to get. Your choices are either a Powertap on your rear wheel or one housed on your crank (SRM, Quarq). With the Powertap you will race and train on the same wheel. With the crank housed ones you can switch them between bikes.
2. Buy what you decide on through Rich
3. Start riding. Take your FTP test to determine your FTP. Now you have a number to base your training rides on. It is that easy.
The power webinar is great and has loads of information, but I don't think you need to know all of it right away. Hell, I still don't think I have listened to the whole thing yet, but I know enough to get by. You have plenty of time before IMFL to get up to speed on power. It will only help you race better IMO.
Hope this helps. If you have any questions please ask away.
Tucker-
You say that with the Quarq you can switch between bikes. I have been looking online and don't really understand. Say I wake up in the AM and decide I want to ride my road bike and not my tri bike, switch the PM and good to go (less than 10 min deal with minimal tools?). I realize that the other type is built into the wheel, but also understand that it's not as easy as switching wheels in AM for 10 min worth of work to move PM around.
I guess I am looking for the most versatility especially since I may be upgrading my road bike in the future.
I have been checking out the wiki, thanks for the suggestions all.
Carly - you can switch either the quarq or the powertap between bikes in about the same time. Some will argue however that the powertap is easier to switch. They are the same to me but I also build my own bikes.
Powertap - assuming all of your bikes have the same size wheels (i.e. 700c) and use the same drivetrain (i.e. Shimano/Sram 10 speed) you just switch the PT wheel like any other wheel. Very quick and easy. Just make sure to get the wireless PT. To race you add a wheel cover to the PT wheel for $100 and you have a disc wheel.
Quarq - simply install that same bottom bracket is all of your bikes and the switch is also very easy. On most models (FSA, SRAM, etc) there is one 8mm allen bolt on the non-drive side. All you do is lossen that bolt and the crank arm comes off and you slide the crank right out. Just slide it into the other bike's bottom bracket and tighten the one bolt back up and you are ready to go. All you need is the quarq as again you can use your 310XT.
FWIW, both swaps take me less than 2 minutes to do.
Powertap is cheaper and more widely used as it has been around longer, the quarq is newer and slighly more expensive but allows you to use any wheels you want.
If you have race wheels already, either buy a quarq and keep them, or sell the rear to fund the purchase of the powertap.
I had a powertap for 2 years and it worked wheel but I switched to a quarq earlier this year for number of reasons. I'm very happy I made the switch but I am in a more unque situation as I have a wheel sponsor and have to race on their wheels and I am racing Kona where a disc cover is not allowed.
You will be more than fine with either option, it just comes down to your preference... if you don't have one and plan to due races where discs are legal, go with the PT as it is generally less expensive.
Excellent summary from Matt, nice work!
What has been touched on, but I'd like to reiterate, is that training and racing with power is much a learning investment as a money investment. Don't do the crime (buy a PM) if you can't do the time (learning how to use it). T1 is full of $$$$$ PM's on the bikes of people with no idea how to use it.
I decided on having a powertap hub built into my existing training/racing wheel (my Reynolds Attack which I love love love), solely because my local tri team got a 45% discount from Saris. Otherwise I would have chosen a Quarq to more easily transfer between my tri bike and cross bike (which is also my commuter and road bike, all in one). The reason a quarq would be easier to switch in that case is because my cross bike has a 9-spd rear derailleur so I have to swap cassettes when I swap wheels. Really that would only add another minute or two, yet it's still another step to deal with.
Just a couple of things to consider, depending on your situation.
Good luck Carly and Becky.
Yes, I'm glad to and will recruit Theresa to record me doing it sometime. I can purposely go slow so that you can see the exact steps instead of trying to do it in a minute like Tom A did on Slowtwitch.
Here is the aforementioned video of Tom A swapping it in one minute:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibycOXD-Mw0
There are other options besides crank based and hub based PMs. For instance, the iBike.
iBike has a number of detractors, I daresay most of them have never actually used a Gen III iBike.
If interested in a $700 wireless PM that can be used on any bike with any wheels and can be transferred from one bike to another with no tools except your hads in about 5 seconds, let me know. you can also go to the iBike website and download their iBIke software. I'm happy to provide ride files from typical rides that show iBike data side by side with PowerTap data so you can see how well the iBike actually works.
How well does the iBike work on the indoor trainer?
So, for the time being, let's assume powertap, bc that's I've poked around a touch on the wheelbuilder website -- what wheel would I want? (again, a newbie triathlete - only 3rd season - with no cycling experience coming in... I bought my cousin's tri bike used so everything was pretty much handed to me)... I have Mavic Open Pro's now. Could I build onto a wheel I already have and save $$? would I want to (I think I saw open pros as an option) - and then just get the cover for races? I also saw Zipp 404s that work for 650s (I don't know if the other Zipp options would fit a 650, nothing is specified). I don't really know what "404" means versus the other options, I'm guessing the depth of the V/the more carbon... most worried about how well they'd handle on a super windy and/or hilly course (Eagleman comes to mind for winds, and I'm planning on IMWI next year)... a stiff and strong crosswind can knock a lil peep like me around quite a bit and I had trouble at Eagleman with the old spynergy trispokes I got from my cuz (the back spoke has a chip, so I've retired it... will likely race the front with a disk in the back at IMFL unless I have power in place).
anyway, your help is so much appreciated... i can't believe I'm contemplating this for FL... but Michele has inspired me to try and learn what I can in the time that I have! If I don't get it now, I will get it pronot and be ready to go come OS in December... and don't worry coach, if I'm gonna spend the $$ I'm gonna put in the time!
I'm pretty good at helping people spend lots of $$.
And in <4 weeks you'll be here riding my tri bike with a powertap AND JOULE, and then you'll have <em>that decision to make as well!
I bought the powertap alone and had it built into my wheel, just because I have a nice carbon all-around wheelset that I didn't want to give up. You have to factor in the cost of having the wheel re-built, you'll need to do the math on the cost difference of buying powertap+wheel vs. powertap built into existing wheel.
When my Ergomo bonked I decided to go with PT Pro+/Joule combo. In the grand scheme of things the wheel itself (Velocity Fusion) was not pricey ($70-80). It is a light, sturdy training wheel and I am using a disc cover for IMWI.
To retrofit a wheel, you have to pay for shipping out/back, new spokes, and lace/true the new wheel. All together, probably over $200.
@Michele... you're killing me!
what's the difference... powertap/joule? why have both? the initial "package" comes with the powertap, right? I obviously have lots more research to do... but this is fun... I need to learn!
sounds like the best way to go is get a new wheel (as far as cost goes)... so I get a new wheel (will need help figuring that one out) and a wheel cover to race with as appropriate... I should bring a notebook full of questions for you when I get to WI (if I haven't already bought something by then)... so, is it correct that I couldn't trade out a quarq on my different bikes bc of the 650/700 issue?
heck, I can sell the wheel I have now and the 650 disc I inherited from my cousin when he sold me the bike (his new TT has 700s).
I don't own one, but I would guess "Not well at all." The iBike estimates power using various sensors, but chiefly a wind sensor to estimate the resistance that is opposing the rider. If you know how fast you are going (speed sensor) and how much force is opposing you, then you can estimate the amount of work that the rider is doing in order to achieve that speed, i.e power. In order for this to work, the unit must be properly calibrated and both the rider and the environment must conspire to minimize the impact of external variables, e.g the rider must maintain the same position as during calibration and the system becomes innacurate during some variations of weather.
As always, it must be disclaimed that all power "meters" merely estimate power through some mechanism, chiefly strain gauges to measure crank or hub torque, but IMHO the iBike is a great concept but I just don't have quite enough faith in it's accuracy.
So after all of that, I would guess riding indoors = no wind = no iBike power. FWIW towards the rest of the debate here though, I'm another very satisfied Quarq owner, have it paired with a 310xt. I got my Quarq used on ST for under $1000 complete with crank have had zero problems with it.
any thoughts on what wheel is the best all purpose trainer/racer to get? the likelihood of my using a cover at Eagleman (which will likely be a close to annual race for me since it's close) is slim to none bc of the wicked cross winds... but many other races I suspect it would be pretty high...
now this is a super random question - do either the lyc or the joule allow you to program workouts/target zones - I love my garmin bc I can set up the workout and it annoyingly beeps at me when I'm going to fast/slow (running) or my HR is too high/low biking... not to mention it keeps track of my intervals so I don't have to think about a thing when I hit start. If not, I can still use the garmin for the interval timing, but will have to remember when I'm supposed to be doing what.
The three garmins that are PM ready are:
FR310xt - wrist worn
Edge500 & Edge705 - Bike Mount
They all allow you to program workouts.
If you go with a Powertap from WheelBuilder you do not have to get the LYC - you can get a wheel & PM only and pair it with any head unit that is ANT+ Power capable (Joule, LYC, Garmin units above).
If you've got one bike with 650s and another with 700s - you might want to go with a Quarq - which is swappable between bikes (although higher in price). then you could use whatever wheels you wanted.
FWIW - I had no issues at eagleman with the wheelcover (in one of the later windier, hotter waves) I was about 165-168lbs at the time.
I ride with a Joule and just print out the workout and tape it to my aero bottle and am good to go.
thanks... I took a look at many of the power threads and lunch is drawing to a close. I guess my first decision is quarq v. powertap. I think the idea of switching bikes is very appealing (especially since someday I might want to upgrade my bike and the new bike may or may not have 650s). Then I can use whatever wheelset I choose, on either bike, etc... So, it seems the Quarq/joule combo is the way for me to go... (Cary, I have a garmin 305 and am happy with it... not looking to upgrade to the XT model).
I took a look at the quarq website yesterday and holy moly was it overwhelming... I didn't know what I was looking at/what I'd need, etc... do we have an EN discount or relationship with them? will the coach help me with the setup/order like he would for a powertap/wheelbuilder?
in any event, would you recommend I get the power kit and webinar and take a look at all of that stuff before making a purchase? I'm almost thinking this might be better post season when I'll have 2 months before OS to do nothing but figure it out... it might take me that long to figure out what to buy.
Becky, if you have decided on the quarq/joule just email Rich.
I have a SRAM S900 Compact Quarq and am very pleased with it. You can also get the FSA one for the same price and they are almost exactly the same. From there the price goes up to get you lighter and/or stiffer cranks that you don't need.
The three key peices of data Rich will need is which BB type you have (standard english or BB30 are the most common), the crank arm lenght you want (170, 172.5, etc), and if you want compact or standard chain rings (compact is HIGHLY recomended here :-) ).
Probably best to check the facts here before jumping in with guesses.
I'm not a huge fan of the iBike, but they do have a solution that works on the trainer. You download a firmware upgrade, and as long as you have a rear wheel magnet, it measures speed and back-calculates the power based on the power-speed curve (published by most trainer manufacturers). This technique does not work for something like the computrainer.
Jorge, if you're curious to learn more, it might be better to start a separate thread, since that doesn't seem to be the direction Becky is thinking at this point. James has had great success with the iBike, and I can vouch that there are several good reasons to consider one. Personally, if I ever get around to upgrading to the Quarq, I'll probably go with one of these as the head unit, if for no other reason than to get real-time CdA measurements.
Mike