EN vs WTC @ IM Moo

steveperx

Rich:

I'm DYING to hear the story to which you alluded in the "Infinit Banned" thread.  Don't leave me hanging.

Coach Rich

So...

You all know that Patrick had his wrist slapped a bit at IMLou for doing our Four Keys talk in an area that he thought wasn't in the Expo but I guess an irrate WTC women sez wuz.

So we showed up at IMWI with a plan to not do the talk either by the swim start (that's where I used to do it but Tri Bike Transport is there now) or in the Expo (last year, near the doors). But we were still going to assemble people IN the expo and take them just outside of the expo for the talk.

Two reasons:

1. We get a ton of walk up traffic
2. I'm not gonna ask you to walk 4 blocks to hear a talk. That's dumb.

So I waited by the Ford exhibit, just inside the expo, and gathered about 15 EN athletes with me. I picked out a primary fighting position, I mean speaking , just outside the expo on a corner, with a couple fallback positions identified if required. While I did this, Patrick went to the KSwiss booth to gather up people, as that's what we had spread out via the blog, Facebook, etc.

Well, when he came walking through the expo with about 40 athletes...I knew that this talk was going to be different .

So as we start to do the talk, our backs are to the expo, athletes facing the expo. Maybe you guys can give me details of what was happening behind hus, but as I understand it some WTC types gathered up to discuss what to do. After the talk we opened up for individual questions and while I'm talking to folks I see Patrick talking to two doodes in black official looking shirts. No guns, handcuffs, and I even hear/see the word "partnership" spoken so I was curious to hear from Patrick what went down.

Short story is that one guy was RD Doode, other guy was Expo Doode.

RD was all about it. He could see that we had 40 athletes in the race, what we were doing was a great value added for the athletes, s'all good.

Expo Doode was pretty hot, as he saw us as people who were using the traffic of the expo to generate interest in our stuff, which we were, sorta, but just couldn't get the fact that we had 40 athletes racing and had gathered another 40-50 on our own initiative through word of mouth, reputation, etc. More importantly, he's interested in selling us booth space, etc.

Patrick left it with them with a "let's talk after the race and see if there is an opportunity to work things out for AZ, FL, etc." So we will email them, put the ball in their court, and see what they come back with. We have own objectives for those talks and we'll see.

In the end, my personal bottomlines are these:

• We are there to deliver a race execution talk to our Team first, Fans second, anyone else interested third. I ain't gonna pay you for the privledge of talking to people already in my circle, and I've done a pretty good job, thank you very much, of figuring how to get people interested in what we have to say without paying WTC, tri-mags, advertising, etc. Reputation, grassroots, and just showing up are far, far more powerful. See P walking through the expo with 50 peeps in tow. Awesome.
• While it's fun to read the Infinit thread on ST and think about all of the fun, guerilla stuff we could do for these talks, in the end it's about us doing a talk for you, our athletes. I don't think it serves us or you to get all whack.
• For us, it's largely a question of real estate. We can always rent our a room somewhere, get a permit to gather on a street corner, or otherwise not pay WTC for that space. And we have lots and lots of time to figure out how to get many, many people on that street corner, if that's what we want to do, without spending a dime.

In the end, I want to email them and see what we can learn by sitting around the table with them. I'm sure the first response will be a .pdf with standard jazz about booth size x for $$y, etc. In other words, the hot chick that's used to being asked out.

We don't need them, at all, because it isn't about EN + WTC or any other company, sponsor, etc. We only have one customer: you guys, period. That makes our job pretty simple, and very powerful in situations like this.

 

steveperx

Sounds like they have no rela position here. If you don't want a booth and are not within the Expo area, then they have no beef. The only thing I can see as a potential problem is specifically going into the Expo to get people to come out and hear your schpeil.

I think your plan is solid, though. See what they will offer you. See what you can get, and at least appear willing to compromise. You never know. Maybe there is a solution that satisfies WTC and is acceptable to you that could even increase your exposure.

Coach Rich

Yeah, the issue is that WTC said they owned the corner we were on, and the one across the street from it, apparently, and the next venue would have been about 50m up the street on the steps of City Hall. I said I don't see no police tape, fuggit, we're talking here.

But I know they don't own Monte's restaurant, or their patio or wall, conveniently located across the street from the AZ expo banner...or the beach at IMFL...or the grassy knoll at IMCDA...or the tennis courts/grass at IMUSA...or the...

steveperx

Agreed. I'm just saying that the more you flaunt it, perhaps the more likely they'll be to find a way to protect it. If there's a mutually agreeable solution, why not find out what it might be? Maybe there's something less than a full booth they'd be willing to give in exchange for a small fee. You might even get some help with promotion out of it (e.g., fliers in the Expo, a speaking engagement at the pre race banquet?). Who knows?

Coach Rich

Thanks for the advice, Counselor, we have you on speed dial

Chris G

 I think a pay per view cage match between you and P in the chica speedo's vs PNF and Heather Fuhr would be a far better way to settle it.

mgraffeo

Id pay to see Rich flying off the top rope after P suplex's PNF. All in the Speedos.

bigdeal

I'm looking for this in the PPV schedule for sure.

Cyclingmaniac

Just a random thought,

I know it is all about the $, but I don't see why WTC couldn't set up a "speaker's corner" or "Coaches Corrner" as an added feature to the Expo.  Open it up to many speakers.  Let the athletes make their own decision on who they want to hear.  It actually might be a means to attract people to the expo and attract additional people to the sport.  Having these speaking locations would potentially translate to bringing more money in to the paid vendors and WTC/Ironman. 

Regardless, I appreciate Coach Rich's and Coach Patrick's focus.  They are here for the EN Team members.  What ever the outcome is with WTC or any other race director, company or organization, NEVER loose that focus.  OK...I'm off my soap box! 

Al Truscott

EN/WTC accomodation ain't never gonna happen. WTC is all about protecting and expanding the brand, while garnering max $$ from athletes and sponsors. EN is all about direct-to-the-athlete over-the-top customer service, so (a) two really good guys/coaches can make a living and (b) anyone - ANYONE - with sufficient committment can have a successful IM or HIM experience.

I don't see the shared interest, but will await further reports.

steveperx

Frankly, the shared interest is that the more people who come to the sport, the more money WTC will make.  RnP have a model that truly fits the Everyman.  They have perfected a system that makes it "easier" for the average person to train for and compete in WTC's events.  Why would they NOT want to help with that?

Coach Rich

Good discussion.

For me, the question is "Can WTC put us in front of more people?" The answer, of course, is yes. The question then is "what do we give up?"

• Flexiblity. Right now the only people steering the boat are PnI and you the members. We have complete freedom to do everything and anything that we, as a team want to do. I'm sure putting any other entity, including WTC, in that wheelhouse would change things.
• Message. We like being the anti-guru coaches, we spread awareness of EN by teaching, giving, being the guys on the ground, working hard to knock it out of the park with you guys, etc. IOW, building by working hard, and smart, vs writing a check. I think we give up some of that cred by going more mainstream, so to speak.

But...I'm still curious to sit at a table with them and see how they do business. We might be surprised.

ht001

Posted By Rich Strauss on 17 Sep 2010 09:33 AM

Good discussion.

For me, the question is "Can WTC put us in front of more people?" The answer, of course, is yes. The question then is "what do we give up?"

• Flexiblity. Right now the only people steering the boat are PnI and you the members. We have complete freedom to do everything and anything that we, as a team want to do. I'm sure putting any other entity, including WTC, in that wheelhouse would change things.
• Message. We like being the anti-guru coaches, we spread awareness of EN by teaching, giving, being the guys on the ground, working hard to knock it out of the park with you guys, etc. IOW, building by working hard, and smart, vs writing a check. I think we give up some of that cred by going more mainstream, so to speak.

But...I'm still curious to sit at a table with them and see how they do business. We might be surprised.

 

Here here...on both of these points. The differences that make EN what it is are what makes it so appealing.

FYI - when we were waiting in the sign up line on Saturday morning there was a woman walking the line handing out her info for coaching services.....

wieczynski

RnP: I think you guys are missing the boat. I would work out a contract with WTC. Then, pass that cost back to Team EN. We're all willing to pay $425 per month to be able to use the i logo.

Not.

Coach Patrick

UPDATE -- I have emailed them twice. They were very excited to work with us at IMWI, but no response yet. Either the hounds have been released or we still don't register. Either way, we fight on!!!