What are the basic thoughts out there of being a self-coached athlete using the EN plans vs paying the fee and being a full-fledged, card carrying member? - Ed
Ed, My 2 cents I do >95% of my training alone – this is driven by my work and travel schedule. Some of the benefits to me as a full member are: • I train with a team / family / friends. We do the mostly the same workouts and support each other’s growth though the season. • We post how are workouts and test go – we have good days and bad days. It is good to be on an up day and be able to give encouragement to those that had a bad day. When I have a bad day, it is consoling to know that everyone else goes though the peaks and valleys to – it’s not just me being a wimp! • Seeing other people achieve good results gives me confidence that the plans work and that my results will also come. • Being a member and posting work out results – keeps me honest and motivates be to do the work out when on some days left to my own I would skip it. This has helped me be consistent in my training which is a huge key to results. • The value of putting up you race rehearsal and race plans and having them critiques by a group with hundreds of ironman races under their belts can quick point you to the areas of improvement that you may never think of. • Reading the race reports – the great days and the less than perfect days provides more practical information on how to execute an Ironman and info specifically to a course than all other published work I have ever seen. There are years and years of learning’s embedded in these reports. When I prep for an event I go review all race reports for that event and read them 3 times. It is amazing what you miss on a first read. • As a member via the forums we are provided an opportunity to help others – provide insights, suggestions, tips tricks. Personally that makes be feel good to “give back to the community”
To get the biggest bang for your membership fee you need to be involved. The more you put in the more you get out of the EN house. Now with that being said that does not mean you need to be online 5 times a day posting 10 things a day. I ebb and flow – driven by time available and need for help / feedback or searching for new information.
1. The people in the haus are seriously smart. I have yet to post a question that hasn't received amazingly thoughtful, insightful answers. My favorite question involved the practicalities of using a Garmin 310xt as as powertap head unit. I asked. Science experiments started happening. Soon, this place had answers people at Garmin and Saris didn't know yet. If you are a question-asker, this place is amazing.
2. I just raced Ironman Wisconsin with forty Eners, dozens of member sherpas, and the rest of the EN family. I had coaches who made sure I saw Mile 18 of the run and were there at the finish line. Read a few race reports. Home base may be online, but this team's real. If you are here and put effort into being part of this team, you get it back hundred-fold. If you just want to lurk, maybe buying a plan is better. If you can imagine yourself a pink speedo-wearing EN doode, cheering the ladies in, sign up!
Thanks for the feedback, Mike. I'm fortunate that I have 2 other buddies who I'm fairly equal with and we all train together...well, as much as we can. That keeps us honest, keeps us getting up at 4:30am when we know someone's waiting on us, and keeps us safe too (on a training ride, each of us has crashed and having a buddy there to watch out for us REALLY made our wives feel better).
As far as that goes, vs being a full-on member, maybe I wouldn't gain that much. We each 3 were using the same EN plan, so that meant we were doing the same workout, each at our level of fitness.
EN routinely talkes about ROI. In this case, I'm not yet seeing the ROI I would gain from $99/month for the next 11 months vs my own self-coached system of using the EN plan. Am I missing something vital here in my simple analysis?
Ed, In terms of you have people locally on the same page, and to the extent that you all share resources, knowledge, can brainstorm stuff, etc I'd say you're good.
However, your triumvirate can't match to the brainpower, learning, networking, and critiquing power of team membership. But, as Matt and Beth both said, it's up to you get the most out of your membership.
We are, at the end of day, a community of self-starters. Some "start" better than others and easily get their money's worth and much more.
As mentioned earlier, this is great team. I think you wil find lots of really smart people with a consistent message and a very positive, friendly environment. It doesn't matter if you run sub 10 hour IMs or have minutes to spare, everyone is treated with respect. As always, you get what you put in.
For me I've learned a ton, met people from all over the country and hosted EN get togethers. A former member, a pilot, always brings his bike to ride with us when he's in town. Just cool stuff.
I would say the benefit of the forums has already been mentioned as far as community, posting workouts, etc. However, one thing that I think is tough to recreate with a group of 3 is the amount of indepth material available here. For example, has your group of 3 developed a sweat trial around hydration and then applied that across a number of different temperatures to not only further refine your nutrition needs, but also refine the racing with pace guidance given in EN to account for heat and different temperatures? Then developed a spread sheet based on real world numbers comparing heat acclimation to run pacing? or have you created a training protocol involving Vo2 max intervals and run a trial group with power based athletes to test this protocol and it's impact on FTP?
These are the cool, data driven discussions that happen within the forums in addition to the cool vibe. I completely understand not needing the team since you have training buddies, but it's great to have these conversations with many, many very intelligent people all trying to find a solution instead of compete with one another for the right answer.
At risk of being repetitious, I'll add my own little pitch. It's not quite a direct response to Ed, but I know that others will read this thread too. I'm a long time self-coached athlete in my 40s and I got into triathlon about 5 years ago, with about 3 years of 70.3/IM distance experience. I belong to a local triathlon club, but train alone 95+% of the time due to work/family constraints.
If my experience with the 70.3 training plan is of any anecdotal value, I will simply say that I set a massive PR on it that I had no right to expect going in. You can do a lot worse for yourself than just to buy a plan! Last winter, that was the decision I made...to buy a 70.3 plan, which i did on the occasion of receiving some sort of discount offer. I then followed TeamEN along on Twitter and FB. I went through the sequence of putting my toe in the water to getting all the way in by way of a trial membership, the discount period (for people that have already bought a plan), and now a full paying member.
To be blunt, it's hard to explain fully the added value of membership over the training plans, but to come close is to say this. Imagine there was a Slowtwitch where no one was snarky or negative, everyone was using the same training method, and everyone was focused on the same kind of racing. That's the starting point. Now imagine that everyone on that Slowtwitch had to pay to be there, so it was in their interest to make it worthwhile. That's the next step. Finally, imagine that the fraction of people that really knows what they are talking about and replies to your post is extremely high....many of them in reality "smart" enough in the system to be the coaches. (See Keith's post on some specifics on some of the very high quality stuff that floats around here!) Finally, imagine that the library of resources was constantly being added to and updated. That's Team EN.
Besides just enjoying the interactions, I have gotten significant "free speed" from the coaches and members in the forums in two ways. One is race-day information (the four keys talk being just the starting point), and the other is the knowledge on really how to stack up and do the training right. I'm pretty sure I would have met my goal for this year's 70.3 A-race without being a full EN-member just on the basis of it being a good plan and my maturing as a racer at that distance. However, I am also quite confident that my goal-shattering results were even better for having been a full member. My current focus is on planning for 2011, and I'm confident of the advice I'm starting to get there as well.
Ultimately, the reason I pitch you a bit on membership is partly altruistic - I think it's a good deal if you have the funds. But it's also for my benefit. I want there to be that great community for me going forward. This isn't Slowtwitch - it's a limited number of people, and we're all invested in it. It goes both ways - I try to help others out when I know something, and even our "Wicked smart members" throw stuff out there for suggestions, improvements and constructive evaluation. As others have said, this is a place that works best for people that are willing to ask and willing to contribute.
In the end, it's up to you, and of course, it's a month-to-month deal (no long-term contract), so you can decide to opt out fairly quickly if you find out it's not for you. I wish all of you the best in making your decisions, and look forward to getting to know some of you who decide to stick on!
Really great responses, you really hit the nail on the head about how I feel about EN as well William. The Slowtwitch analogy is an example that I have tried to explain to people in the past but didn't quite articulate as well as you did.
Honestly I came on board this year because I was a training plan customer and the discounted rate / buyback period would basically take me most of the way through the season up to my A race, IMWI. After IMWI, I was not sure where I would end up but was not sure whether I would continue EN past my first Ironman until I figured out what my next season looked like. Now that race is over, and I still don't know what my next season looks like, but EN itself has become a way bigger part of my training and triathlon experience than I had anticipated and I am definitely staying on board and actually looking forward to the OutSeason.
This was not easy for me, I'm a pretty skeptical dude and I'm also pretty cheap, but for reasons I can't articulate quite as well as above, I just feel good about being on EN and am very comfortable that the investment has been and continues to be well worth it.
Honestly I came on board this year because I was a training plan customer and the discounted rate / buyback period would basically take me most of the way through the season up to my A race, IMWI.
This was not easy for me, I'm a pretty skeptical dude and I'm also pretty cheap, but for reasons I can't articulate quite as well as above, I just feel good about being on EN and am very comfortable that the investment has been and continues to be well worth it.
Trevor: you hit on 2 things that describe me (training plan customer, skeptical/cheap ) - alright, 3. You also mentioned a discounted rate/buyback period. What is this? I can see the benefit in the forum, as I've looked through it briefly. I'll fully get into it over the next week or so to try to comprehend how vast it really is.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I know from a training plan standpoint that I could have had a fabulous race at IMLOU this year, but due to training setbacks from a wreck in late June (partially separated shoulder, fractured elbow) I had to dial down my expectations from a sub12hr first IM to 13-14hr. My final time, even after sickness in the swim, no glasses on the bike for 112 miles, flat tire and slippery hands, no water for my Infinit for 30 miles on the bike, calf cramps on the run, gastric distress on the run - still ended up being 14:28:42. I wonder "what if" so often that I'm anxious to tackle it again - SOON. This makes me think of joining to get the maximum out of EN and the training plan I purchased, but the thought of signing up right now, when IMLOU is so far off, screams "too much money" for 11 months...but this is why I'm evaluating.
Hey Ed- Certainly you have to make your own decision. I also did IMLOU this past year definitely wicked hot. I'm not doing much this time of year, training wise but truly this is a great time to join EN. There is definitely some head space involved with learning how to train and execute our way. If there is a discipline in triathlon (bike fit, run pace, running a marathon, gear tweaks, swim videos/books etc) we have a resource for it, we are usually on the same page. In all things triathlon EN comes pretty cheap.
Just an FYI, this is our first two week trial opportunity in a year. There will be other trial opportunities and/or opportunities to join later in the season or early next season. However, the price behind the door at the end of this opportunity is $99/mo. That price will be $129/mo.
I understand that time of all of this doesn't work for people who've recently raced but it is what is. Our most powerful time of year, where we do much of the teaching and team building jazz that is so powerful here, happens in the October and November OS starts so it makes sense that we focus these big recruiting efforts to peak in this timeframe.
Sorry, just addressing the long term pricing issues you described.
WOW! Good stuff in here. Yep, it is all about being in da Haus.
First . . . . Welcome!
We are not Slowtwitch. Thank God! We have straight forward, results based, quantifiable back and forth respectful discussions in here. No weight weenie talk or my FTP is bigger then your FTP B.S. I understand the monthly fee can be an issue and our discussions about ROI is based on fitness gained for time spent training. Not monetarily.
If you can afford the fee and are still skeptical, I would suggest trying EN for 90 days. Jump into our Out-Season and if you aren't satisfied with your results then cancel. I bet you stay.
WOW! Good stuff in here. Yep, it is all about being in da Haus.
First . . . . Welcome!
We are not Slowtwitch. Thank God! We have straight forward, results based, quantifiable back and forth respectful discussions in here. No weight weenie talk or my FTP is bigger then your FTP B.S. I understand the monthly fee can be an issue and our discussions about ROI is based on fitness gained for time spent training. Not monetarily.
If you can afford the fee and are still skeptical, I would suggest trying EN for 90 days. Jump into our Out-Season and if you aren't satisfied with your results then cancel. I bet you stay.
My .02.
John
John: good idea about the EN for 90 days. The Out-Season would be a perfect way to really put things to the test. As far as not being Slowtwitch? You mean I can't brag endlessly about the weight of my bike and post bike porn or make silly comments like "your seat height is too high"? You take all the fun out of life, don't you?
The wealth of information here is incredible. I went from never having done any Triathlon (any distance) to finishing IM CDA in 12:45 in 6 months with EN. Heck, I had never swam laps before I started EN. There is no way I would have learned enough to finish and actually feel reasonable well at the end without EN. There are TONS of little tips that people throw out there that you can't find other places. From how to improve your transition time, to what that yellow line means on WKO+.
As far as not being Slowtwitch? You mean I can't brag endlessly about the weight of my bike and post bike porn or make silly comments like "your seat height is too high"? You take all the fun out of life, don't you?
We actually like bike porn though I search it out all the time!
Comments
I do >95% of my training alone – this is driven by my work and travel schedule.
Some of the benefits to me as a full member are:
• I train with a team / family / friends. We do the mostly the same workouts and support each other’s growth though the season.
• We post how are workouts and test go – we have good days and bad days. It is good to be on an up day and be able to give encouragement to those that had a bad day. When I have a bad day, it is consoling to know that everyone else goes though the peaks and valleys to – it’s not just me being a wimp!
• Seeing other people achieve good results gives me confidence that the plans work and that my results will also come.
• Being a member and posting work out results – keeps me honest and motivates be to do the work out when on some days left to my own I would skip it. This has helped me be consistent in my training which is a huge key to results.
• The value of putting up you race rehearsal and race plans and having them critiques by a group with hundreds of ironman races under their belts can quick point you to the areas of improvement that you may never think of.
• Reading the race reports – the great days and the less than perfect days provides more practical information on how to execute an Ironman and info specifically to a course than all other published work I have ever seen. There are years and years of learning’s embedded in these reports. When I prep for an event I go review all race reports for that event and read them 3 times. It is amazing what you miss on a first read.
• As a member via the forums we are provided an opportunity to help others – provide insights, suggestions, tips tricks. Personally that makes be feel good to “give back to the community”
To get the biggest bang for your membership fee you need to be involved. The more you put in the more you get out of the EN house. Now with that being said that does not mean you need to be online 5 times a day posting 10 things a day. I ebb and flow – driven by time available and need for help / feedback or searching for new information.
Good luck in your decision.
Matt
2. I just raced Ironman Wisconsin with forty Eners, dozens of member sherpas, and the rest of the EN family. I had coaches who made sure I saw Mile 18 of the run and were there at the finish line. Read a few race reports. Home base may be online, but this team's real. If you are here and put effort into being part of this team, you get it back hundred-fold. If you just want to lurk, maybe buying a plan is better. If you can imagine yourself a pink speedo-wearing EN doode, cheering the ladies in, sign up!
As far as that goes, vs being a full-on member, maybe I wouldn't gain that much. We each 3 were using the same EN plan, so that meant we were doing the same workout, each at our level of fitness.
EN routinely talkes about ROI. In this case, I'm not yet seeing the ROI I would gain from $99/month for the next 11 months vs my own self-coached system of using the EN plan. Am I missing something vital here in my simple analysis?
In terms of you have people locally on the same page, and to the extent that you all share resources, knowledge, can brainstorm stuff, etc I'd say you're good.
However, your triumvirate can't match to the brainpower, learning, networking, and critiquing power of team membership. But, as Matt and Beth both said, it's up to you get the most out of your membership.
We are, at the end of day, a community of self-starters. Some "start" better than others and easily get their money's worth and much more.
For me I've learned a ton, met people from all over the country and hosted EN get togethers. A former member, a pilot, always brings his bike to ride with us when he's in town. Just cool stuff.
These are the cool, data driven discussions that happen within the forums in addition to the cool vibe. I completely understand not needing the team since you have training buddies, but it's great to have these conversations with many, many very intelligent people all trying to find a solution instead of compete with one another for the right answer.
If my experience with the 70.3 training plan is of any anecdotal value, I will simply say that I set a massive PR on it that I had no right to expect going in. You can do a lot worse for yourself than just to buy a plan! Last winter, that was the decision I made...to buy a 70.3 plan, which i did on the occasion of receiving some sort of discount offer. I then followed TeamEN along on Twitter and FB. I went through the sequence of putting my toe in the water to getting all the way in by way of a trial membership, the discount period (for people that have already bought a plan), and now a full paying member.
To be blunt, it's hard to explain fully the added value of membership over the training plans, but to come close is to say this. Imagine there was a Slowtwitch where no one was snarky or negative, everyone was using the same training method, and everyone was focused on the same kind of racing. That's the starting point. Now imagine that everyone on that Slowtwitch had to pay to be there, so it was in their interest to make it worthwhile. That's the next step. Finally, imagine that the fraction of people that really knows what they are talking about and replies to your post is extremely high....many of them in reality "smart" enough in the system to be the coaches. (See Keith's post on some specifics on some of the very high quality stuff that floats around here!) Finally, imagine that the library of resources was constantly being added to and updated. That's Team EN.
Besides just enjoying the interactions, I have gotten significant "free speed" from the coaches and members in the forums in two ways. One is race-day information (the four keys talk being just the starting point), and the other is the knowledge on really how to stack up and do the training right. I'm pretty sure I would have met my goal for this year's 70.3 A-race without being a full EN-member just on the basis of it being a good plan and my maturing as a racer at that distance. However, I am also quite confident that my goal-shattering results were even better for having been a full member. My current focus is on planning for 2011, and I'm confident of the advice I'm starting to get there as well.
Ultimately, the reason I pitch you a bit on membership is partly altruistic - I think it's a good deal if you have the funds. But it's also for my benefit. I want there to be that great community for me going forward. This isn't Slowtwitch - it's a limited number of people, and we're all invested in it. It goes both ways - I try to help others out when I know something, and even our "Wicked smart members" throw stuff out there for suggestions, improvements and constructive evaluation. As others have said, this is a place that works best for people that are willing to ask and willing to contribute.
In the end, it's up to you, and of course, it's a month-to-month deal (no long-term contract), so you can decide to opt out fairly quickly if you find out it's not for you. I wish all of you the best in making your decisions, and look forward to getting to know some of you who decide to stick on!
William
Honestly I came on board this year because I was a training plan customer and the discounted rate / buyback period would basically take me most of the way through the season up to my A race, IMWI. After IMWI, I was not sure where I would end up but was not sure whether I would continue EN past my first Ironman until I figured out what my next season looked like. Now that race is over, and I still don't know what my next season looks like, but EN itself has become a way bigger part of my training and triathlon experience than I had anticipated and I am definitely staying on board and actually looking forward to the OutSeason.
This was not easy for me, I'm a pretty skeptical dude and I'm also pretty cheap, but for reasons I can't articulate quite as well as above, I just feel good about being on EN and am very comfortable that the investment has been and continues to be well worth it.
Trevor: you hit on 2 things that describe me (training plan customer, skeptical/cheap ) - alright, 3. You also mentioned a discounted rate/buyback period. What is this? I can see the benefit in the forum, as I've looked through it briefly. I'll fully get into it over the next week or so to try to comprehend how vast it really is.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I know from a training plan standpoint that I could have had a fabulous race at IMLOU this year, but due to training setbacks from a wreck in late June (partially separated shoulder, fractured elbow) I had to dial down my expectations from a sub12hr first IM to 13-14hr. My final time, even after sickness in the swim, no glasses on the bike for 112 miles, flat tire and slippery hands, no water for my Infinit for 30 miles on the bike, calf cramps on the run, gastric distress on the run - still ended up being 14:28:42. I wonder "what if" so often that I'm anxious to tackle it again - SOON. This makes me think of joining to get the maximum out of EN and the training plan I purchased, but the thought of signing up right now, when IMLOU is so far off, screams "too much money" for 11 months...but this is why I'm evaluating.
Certainly you have to make your own decision. I also did IMLOU this past year definitely wicked hot. I'm not doing much this time of year, training wise but truly this is a great time to join EN. There is definitely some head space involved with learning how to train and execute our way. If there is a discipline in triathlon (bike fit, run pace, running a marathon, gear tweaks, swim videos/books etc) we have a resource for it, we are usually on the same page. In all things triathlon EN comes pretty cheap.
Just an FYI, this is our first two week trial opportunity in a year. There will be other trial opportunities and/or opportunities to join later in the season or early next season. However, the price behind the door at the end of this opportunity is $99/mo. That price will be $129/mo.
I understand that time of all of this doesn't work for people who've recently raced but it is what is. Our most powerful time of year, where we do much of the teaching and team building jazz that is so powerful here, happens in the October and November OS starts so it makes sense that we focus these big recruiting efforts to peak in this timeframe.
Sorry, just addressing the long term pricing issues you described.
WOW! Good stuff in here. Yep, it is all about being in da Haus.
First . . . . Welcome!
We are not Slowtwitch. Thank God! We have straight forward, results based, quantifiable back and forth respectful discussions in here. No weight weenie talk or my FTP is bigger then your FTP B.S. I understand the monthly fee can be an issue and our discussions about ROI is based on fitness gained for time spent training. Not monetarily.
If you can afford the fee and are still skeptical, I would suggest trying EN for 90 days. Jump into our Out-Season and if you aren't satisfied with your results then cancel. I bet you stay.
My .02.
John
John
John: good idea about the EN for 90 days. The Out-Season would be a perfect way to really put things to the test. As far as not being Slowtwitch? You mean I can't brag endlessly about the weight of my bike and post bike porn or make silly comments like "your seat height is too high"? You take all the fun out of life, don't you?
The wealth of information here is incredible. I went from never having done any Triathlon (any distance) to finishing IM CDA in 12:45 in 6 months with EN. Heck, I had never swam laps before I started EN. There is no way I would have learned enough to finish and actually feel reasonable well at the end without EN. There are TONS of little tips that people throw out there that you can't find other places. From how to improve your transition time, to what that yellow line means on WKO+.
Peter
We actually like bike porn though
I search it out all the time!