Questions regarding training terminology

Ben V

 As I'm started my out season program this week and plan on using the HIM plan for Oceanside I was wondering if there is a place somewhere which summarizes some of the terminology ?

 

- For example, the power zones referred to in the plan for the bike training seem to be set up somewhat differently from the Coggan power zones (which I'm using today). Can I find a description of the zones somewhere?

- Same question for the running zones (I'm training with pace), is there a description of the zone setup? 

- Same question for the terminology used in the swimming addendum - I see things like 'swimming progression', swim golf propulsion progression, step in propulsion progression, 'kicking' or 'descending' . Any description of this anywhere?

 

Thx

Ben

 

 

Keith Wick

the power zones are listed as a percentage of your FTP (Functional Threshold Power). The zones aren't really that important and you should be paying more attention to the % of FTP listed in the plan. We determine our FTP by doing 2 x20' (2') rest. The NP (normalized power) for the entire 42' is your FTP.
z1 < 70%
z2 70-75%
z3 80-85% (described as "work")
z4 95-100%
z5 120%

Run zones are based on pace taken directly from the daniels running formula. Not sure if you can access the data tool, but if you can't then you can find the Daniels calculator online for your paces. Pay attention to pace, not HR.
z1- Long Run Pace
z2- Marathon Pace
z3- Half Marathon Pace
z4- Threshold Pace
z5- Interval Pace

Not sure where the swim stuff is posted. I haven't been in the water all summer.

Ben V

 Thanks for the info Keith - this is already helpful. I found the Quickstart guide also which has quite a bit of information in it.

 

As far as the power zones goes, it seems the main thing is to focus on the prescribed intensity but they don't necessarily correspond with the Coggan zones, which I guess is not important for the training itself. I just thought maybe it could have been good to adjust my powerzones in WKO+ to better monitor how much time I'm spending in each EN-defined zone.

 

I also found the running zone intensity calculator which should be sufficient. 

 

Still looking for some additional swimming lingo. 

gilliatt

Ben, if you have access try the swim ebook it is in wiki

mcohen

I would like to know what is a recommended warm up time/effort to do before doing any main set. Thanks

Ben V

Posted By Dan Gilliatt on 19 Sep 2010 09:55 AM

Ben, if you have access try the swim ebook it is in wiki

I don't seem to have access to that...

 

Coach Patrick

Michael, the recommended warm ups are somewhere, but are:

Bike: 15' easy/z1 to steady/z2, and then 3 x 1 minute (1' rest) at z4/Threshold/FTP.

Run: 15' easy/z1 to steady/z2, includling 3 x 30 second pickups at z5/5k pace each with 30 seconds to 1 minute of recovery in z1.

P

Keith Wick

Posted By Ben Vanmarcke on 19 Sep 2010 09:47 AM

 As far as the power zones goes, it seems the main thing is to focus on the prescribed intensity but they don't necessarily correspond with the Coggan zones, which I guess is not important for the training itself. I just thought maybe it could have been good to adjust my powerzones in WKO+ to better monitor how much time I'm spending in each EN-defined zone.

 

 

 

Hey Ben,

Yes, the power zones don't correspond with the Coggan zones and thus, you may want to set them differently in WKO+.  I do this so I know how much time I'm spending at FTP, etc.  I remember a brief conversation with coach P when they were talking with Coggan about the new book they were putting out.  He was talking about how Coggan's zones are big enough to drive a mac-truck through them, so we needed to narrow them to really define what work is.

Ben V

Posted By Keith Wick on 19 Sep 2010 08:16 PM

Posted By Ben Vanmarcke on 19 Sep 2010 09:47 AM

 As far as the power zones goes, it seems the main thing is to focus on the prescribed intensity but they don't necessarily correspond with the Coggan zones, which I guess is not important for the training itself. I just thought maybe it could have been good to adjust my powerzones in WKO+ to better monitor how much time I'm spending in each EN-defined zone.

 

 

 

Hey Ben,

Yes, the power zones don't correspond with the Coggan zones and thus, you may want to set them differently in WKO+.  I do this so I know how much time I'm spending at FTP, etc.  I remember a brief conversation with coach P when they were talking with Coggan about the new book they were putting out.  He was talking about how Coggan's zones are big enough to drive a mac-truck through them, so we needed to narrow them to really define what work is.

Thanks Keith - that makes sense and was the exact reason why I would change my power zones in WKO+ also. The quickstart page has some zones in it but there are some gaps such as 85-95% and zone 5 is noted as '110% FTP' which isn't really a zone. I think there are more zones (like the 'fun' zone?). 

Coach Rich

Our power training zones are directly related to race intensity and we chosen to that way...on purpose:

• 70-75% = Z2 = ~Ironman pace, so when you're sitting here think "this is my IM pace...what does this feel like? My HR, breathing, how comfortable am I on my bike, can I eat, drink here, etc
• 80-85% = Z3 = ~HIM pace, same but...for HIM.
• 95-100% = Z4 = ~Oly pace, but for our purposes is more about "that is the best place for me to sit and raise my FTP
• 110%+ = Z5 = basically just go very, very hard

Back in the Day I made my zones this way because the zones mean something to a triathlete. I never, never pay attention to the zones in WKO. Me, I just take my FTP = 315 x .85 = 267w, round up to 270w = that's basically my Pnorm goal for any ride shorter than about 3hrs, unless I have a lot of downhill. Then, when I'm doing that ride, I'll often just stare at the dial and will myslf to see 300w+, alot. I don't really purposely ride anything under 80-85% unless I'm on a tri bike, in the aero doing a race rehearsal...which was over 2yrs ago .

Ben, Hwy 39 is the schznit. TT from your house to Crystal Lake, descend, done. Takes me 2:05-2:10 if I murder myself.

Ben V

Actually what i might do is set up more zones:

zone 1: <70% FTP <br /> zone 2: 70-75% FTP (Ironman pace)
Zone a: 75-80% FTP
zone 3: 80-85% FTP (HIM pace)
zone b: 85-95% FTP
Zone 4: 95-100% FTP (olympic)
zone c: 100-110% FTP
zone 5: 110+

I would like to set up similar zones in WKO+ as the zones I'm training in to get a better view of how good the quality of the work was. Or if I skip a prescribed workout and do something different (like I did yesterday), if I have the same zones set up in WKO+ I think it may be valuable to get a feel if my workout was similar / better / worse than my prescribed workout (although it's probably a rough estimate).

Now, not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask this question but if I read Coggan's book there's quite a lot of value in training in the 85-95% range ('sweet spot', to improve FTP) however in Endurance Nation's plans or defined zones we don't train in this zone. Is there a specific reason why?

Coach Rich

Ben,

I think you're thinking too much :

• Fine to make up any zones you want, I suppose, but unless you're on a trainer you're never going to be able to ride at that level of granularity.
• With all due respect to Hunter and Doc Coggan, they're not thinking of cycling with the context of triathlon training, specifically the combination of very hard cycling and running (in our OS) or intensity + volume (IM and HIM plans). Our zones are our zones, and our workouts are what they are, because they've been benchtested by many, many athletes before you. In fact, when Hunter interviewed me for the triathlon chapter of the second edition, I was very surprised at just how perspective he had on Ironman training and racing, and how little data he had (zero, basically)
• During that benchtesting, pretty sure that no one has come to us and said that 80-85% wasn't enough work, especially after a very solid set of FTP intervals, and a run the day before. Just sayin'

Ben V

Thanks - fair points!

easton99

So I looked all through the Swim Ebook and the terminology FAQ, but still can't find what T-Pace minus 2 means.  I get the T-pace part, just not the minus 2.

 

Thanks.

Al Truscott

2 seconds faster per 100 than T pace?