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FTP Testing Question for Patrick or Rich

QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster
in Community Forum 🏠

I just followed your protocol for testing FTP.  I did the prescribed warm-up, calibrated my CompuTrainer, then rode 20" at TT effort, 2" easy, then 20" at TT effort.  My average watts was 220.  Now is this my FTP or am I missing something here?  I am a little confused as I remember reading something somewhere on EN about loading the saved data onto WKO+ and then something about Pnorm (normalized power).  I don't have WKO+.  Is this an absolute must?  My plan is to do indoor rides on my CompuTrainer and outdoor rides with my Powertap set up.  Trying to sift through the boatloads of information on EN has me feeling a little overwhelmed and being that I am new to training with Power, I am even more overwhelmed.  Please help me sort through the confusion.  Thanks in advance. 

Comments

  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    Robert,

    I'm assuming the time period was 42 minutes, correct?

    Average watts and normalized watts are slightly different. Normalized watts are simply a mathematical formula that gives more weight to harder work. For example, if you rode for one hour always holding 150 watts, your average and normalized watts would both be 150 for the ride. If you rode for one hour again, but this time rode 30 minutes at 200 watts and 30 minutes at 100 watts, your average watts would still be 150 watts, but your normalized watts may be 160 or something like that.

    The software that comes with the Powertap will calculate Normalized power for you. If you open Power Agent, save your ride and then click on the Power Detail Tab, the number will be there.

    Having said all that, if you want, you could use average power, which you see right on your PT computer if you really want to. Just try and ride consistently and smoothly while doing intervals so that your average and normalize power are pretty close.

    I would recommend WKO, just because it's great software and everyone uses it, so you get consistent terminology. You can add PT, CT and Garmin data for both biking and running. You don't have to have it.

    I have a PT and CompuTrainer. If I ride indoors, I use the PT wheel on the CT. After the ride, I save the PT data and not the CT data. That way I know all my power data is consistent.
  • Matt SamojedenMatt Samojeden
    2X on all of Tom's comments. Also have a PT and Computrainer and and like Tom, I use the PT for all data to be reviewed.
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster
    My plan is to use the dedicated Powertap wheel for outdoor training and the CompuTrainer for indoor training so that I don't have to swap out the tire each ride (you know how the trainer flattens out the roundness of the tire?). I was going to establish an FTP # on the CT and use that FTP for all indoor workouts and then establish an FTP on my Powertap and use that # for all outdoor rides.

    So how important is it that I spend MORE money for the WKO+? Help me justify the extra expense on top of the $99/mo. for EN not to mention race fees, gear, travel, nutrition, etc.
  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    AGain, I agree with Tom and Matt. However, if you can be sure that you rode the intervals fairly smoothly, then the adjustment from the Pnorm is not huge, maybe a few watts. Basically it's like comparing a RMS average to an arithmetic average. The RMS average (~Pnorm) will be higher, but it will be more-higher the more-variable the ride is, because the squares of the big numbers get bigger faster.

    An approximation that also works (that is of no mathematical worth..it just happens to come out right if you ride typically and not in a hugely pulsed way) is to average the ride and take out the zeros...that comes out very close to the Pnorm, and a few W higher than the "regular" average. However, if you're on a trainer, you might never have stopped!

    In the end, if you stuck with measuring everything the same way consistently, you could get away with it, just knowing that the number you obtain is a few W lower than the number your twin who has purchased WKO got. However, WKO is nice software if you use windows. (I do not.)
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster
    Maybe a silly question here. For those of you who use CompuTrainer to train with power, how hard is it to use the Coaching Software. I tried downloading it when it became free and everytime I did so, my 3D program would stop running. Also, seems like there is quite a learning curve there and with my being a father, husband, and working 12+ hour shifts in a busy ER, I don't have time to try to learn how to use the Coaching Software program and train. So can I get away with not having to use the Coaching Software if I use WKO+? Also, did I remember seeing an EN discount code somewhere in my travels throughout the EN site?
  • VKrishnamurthiVKrishnamurthi

    Robert,

    I too am a new member so my comments may not have the experience or insight of the other replies.

    I have had a Computrainer for ~ 1 year. I  use the coaching software to "save" my ride data. I export the data into a txt file (instead of the .3dp file) and then upload to Training Peaks. I did get a Power Tap this summer (in prep for my 1st Ironman) and then decided to get the WKO+ software, also available through Training Peaks. My sense of the WKO software is that it gives you more data and provides a "standardized" way to analyze power data from multiple sources. I have only used the Computrainer Coaching software to convert the ride data into a text file-I'm sure there's a lot more that can be done with it but I haven't tried anything else yet.

    By the way-what course did you use in CT for your FTP testing?

    Venkatesh

     

     

  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    Robert,

    I bought a program called Erg+ that allows you to write your own programs. It's really easy to use. I just wrote out the EN intervals, loaded them up and started pedaling. I believe there is a free version out there, but can't remember it off the top of my head.

    If you want to test it, send me a private message (PM) and I'll write out an interval program for you and walk you through how to load it up. Don't expect an easy one though!
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster

    Venkatesh,

    Regarding your question about which 3D program I used on CT for my FTP test, I simply set up the "flatcourse" for 25 miles and rode the course according to the protocol.  I figured I'd be consistent and use it each and everytime I retest on the CT.  I live in Florida where it's flat also so that was another reason why I selected the "flatcourse."

    Rob

  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster

    Tom,

    Does Erg+ come as part of the WKO+ package or do you have to buy it separately?  Also, how do you send PMs on here?  I'd love for you to write me an interval program and walk me through setting it up.  I looked at the CT coaching software manual and it looks like alot of work writing your own interval workout using their software.  Thanks!

    Robert

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    My notes:

    • WKO+ is kinda COB (cost of bidness) for power training athletes. Buy it, use it, forget what you paid for it. FYI, TeamEN member price is $109 vs $129 retail and this is a one-time purchase, not a subscription.
    • Personally, I would use the PT wheel on the CT, consider using Erg+ to write the workouts, as Tom has described, or just do them on 3D on your own. Regardless, I would use the PT wheel as my primary powermeter, using the CT only as a venue, not a powermeter. You want to wrap your head and perspective around the numbers you see on the Powertap, as that's what you'll be riding/racing with outside. Tires, in this case, are just cost of business. I say this because, come April or so when trainer peeps are indoors half the time and outdoors half the time, we see enough confusion over indoor vs outdoor watts. If you add indoor on the CT vs outdoors on the PT to that situation, I imagine it could be very confusing.
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster

    So the WKO+ is a one time expense and I get to use it forever and ever?  I can buy it through EN somewhere providing I am a TeamEN member?  I would like to be able to write my own interval workouts for my CompuTrainer.  Could you clarify if Erg+ comes with the WKO+ or do I need to purchase that separately? 

  • steveperxsteveperx
    @Robert:

    ERG+ is a separate purchase. Matt Ancona (I think) provided a link not too long ago to a free module that will create .erg files that can be used with the CT. Let me do some digging, and I'll see if I can find it and repost here.
  • steveperxsteveperx

     I was close.  It was Matt Sullivan who posted it.

     

    Here is the link.  I believe it's fairly self-explanatory.  Post any questions, and someone will answer them.
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster

    Thanks Steve! 

  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    Try creating an erg file with the link above. Post questions if you need help.

    I created a folder on my desktop to store the files. It's easy to find too.

    Open the Computrainer CS program
    under the menu items:
    source=real time
    start charts
    find the erg file and click open. Use the handle bar controller to start/stop/calibrate
    pedal like crazy!
  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    @ Robert,

    to send a private message (PM), look up to the red bar at the top of the page then
    Community / Message Center /New Message

    I sent you one to test.

    When you log on, a message should flash that you have a new message
  • QuintanaRoosterQuintanaRooster

    Thanks again for the link to build an Erg file.  I used it tonite and it worked like a charm.  Quick question, at the completion of the workout, CT questioned me if I wanted to save a report?  I clicked on "save report" but can't seem to find where it was saved to.  Any suggestions.  Also, if I purchase WKO+, how do I send a report to WKO?  Thanks again. 

    Rob

  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    My saved files go to My Documents FolderComputrainerExported Files

    The exported file is a Chart Data File with a CDF extension. If you search on *.CDF, you should be able to find the directory

    You then have to re-open the Computrainer CS software and then FileExport, find the file, and open it, creating a text file ending in TXT. The TXT file is dropped into the same folder as the CDF file. This file can then be directly moved into WKO via a drag and drop. Once into WKO I usually go back and delete the CDF and TXT files so that I know I have copied them into WKO and don't try and re-import them.

    No one said the CT software was easy! I think it was written in the '70s and has never been updated. On the other hand, the hardware is indestructible.
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