how to cut weight while training for an IM?

scott dinhofer

so, eight weeks to go and i am not as skinny as i'd like to be... only been at this hard for the last eight months and have shed some lbs. I am looking to drop ideally 12-18 lbs between now and IMAZ in 8 weeks (i could probably lose 20 and be ok) so the question, is how to fuel oneself for the heavy workouts that the last eight weeks entail AND lose the weight?

I have a friend who finished top 100 at IMWI, when i saw him for lunch the other day, i almost didnt recognize him. one of his tricks was low calories on his bike and run training. For instance, he would do 150 mile rides drinking a bottle of G2 an hour (50 cals) he was probably down to 4-5% body fat for IMWI. i won't get that low, but need to trend that way...

any thoughts? i am sure there are questions...

I am 5'8, probably 180-185 lbs (yes i need to get on a scale) down from 205 six months ago. weight is all centrally located :-)

i think that 160 would be an ideal race weight for me even though i won't get there for this event...

as for race day and race week, i get the fueling necessities and have experimented with various fuels (liquid, gels & salt tablets) to know what works for me when i get down to the wire and not bonk for not fueling myself.

Paul Hough

Ditto on the bike. Reduce Gatorade and similar consumption and use Nuun tablets or similar with water. Also, just eat right in general. More fruit & veggies, less carbs. Cut the rolls/bread when you go out to eat.

dan_forbes

 Hi Scott.  I'm not a nutritionist, but what worked for me this year was front loading most of my meals.  I would eat something like eggs and fruit for breakfast.  Raw veggie snack.  Wrap or sandwich with turkey and lots of veggies.  Fruit or veg for snack.  When I get home, I would eat some more veggies and maybe some cheese.  Small portion of protein and cooked veggies for dinner then I would workout when everyone went to bed.  All the while pounding up to 100+ oz of water all day.  I found that after a few weeks I felt great and lost weight without a loss of energy during workouts.  On running days since I ran late, I would skip dinner because I would always taste it during the workout and just have a recovery drink after instead (maybe 2x a week).  On the weekend long rides, I wouldn't eat for 3 hours prior to long rides or runs, and limited my calories.  I trained mainly with water until my race rehearsals.  I dropped from 185 to under 170 by race date, albeit with a bit more time.  I did see a faster drop closer to my race.  Just be careful with the time you have left that you are not starving yourself with long workouts coming and no gas.  I just tried to keep my calories coming from raw fruit and vegetables with protein added in.  Carbs in my diet always found a way to get in there so I didn't worry about them.  I don't number crunch, I can't stand it so sorry if I didn't give you solid numbers.  I'm about the same exact build as you from what you describe.  Good luck man. 

There was a book someone here recommended to me about how your body can function on what it has (basically), I'd get it out, but its upstairs, can't wake the wife and kids!  But in a nutshell, during workouts, you have a lot on board as far as energy is concerned if you acclimatize for it.  Thats why I just used water for most workouts to get my body used to burning fat as much as possible.  As I said, I'm not a nutritionist, but it worked for me with a pretty good race result for me.

Dan

Tom Glynn

Scott,

Rich started another post over here on the subject: http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.com/Community/Forums/tabid/101/aff/28/aft/2824/afv/topic/afnp/47375/Default.aspx

scott dinhofer

thanks, i found that about a half hour after posting last night, couldnt be any closer to the end of my nose!

found a similar app for the Droid and started going to work on project. just logging in yesterday's foods made it easy to see. just need to start having lots of veggie & berry snacks and i will be fine...

gina

NOT a nutritionist, but I  think that 12-18 lbs in 8 weeks is a drastic loss. Need to get Penny Wilson to advise here, but I  would think you would risk injury, sickness, poor performance.

However, I know from personal experience, if you go somewhat  "paleo", you should easily drop some. Think LOTs of fresh veggies, fruit, fiber, lean protein. I  dropped 8 lbs leading up to IMWI (over about 8 weeks).

 

Good luck!!

TracyWood

 Scott- which app for droid for tracking? was hoping lose it will come to droid

 

Coach Patrick

What @Gina said...that much weight could be a challenge to lose and still perform well in this timeline. The upside is that any weight you do lose will just make you faster!!!

dan_forbes

 @Scott:  I have the book now in my hands, its Bob Seebohar's Metabolic Efficiency Training: Teaching the Body to Burn More Fat.  It won't get you all that weight loss, but it will help.  If you want, I can send it to you....

Coach Rich

My notes:

• LoseIt, or similar logging tool, rocks. As endurance athletes training 6-15+hrs per week, it's a no brainer to create a calorie deficit every day...as long as actually track what we're eating and how much we are burning.
• I found that I can manage a loss of 1.5-2lb per week...just barely. But if I had days, usually on the weekends, where I created massive 1500-2000 cal deficits, I would definitely feel it the next day.
• Though I don't like PM workouts, they were very effective in easily creating calorie deficits. I would eat well and log my stuff all day, arriving at 5pm with only about 200-300 cals left in my daily budget...then do a hard 2hr ride (carrying sportsdrink and/or a bar in case I needed it), burn 1700-1800 cals, sit down to my massive salad + massive fruit plate with 2k+ in my budget. I litterally couldn't eat enough food to hit my budget and would go to be about 500cals under = about 1500cals on the day. That was a little on the risky side but it worked for me.

I have aggressive race and body comp goals for IMWI next year and want to reap the speed and training benefits of training < 155lb from about Feb through July, then do a little push to get me into the low 150's, maybe even see 148-149lb on the scale one morning. This will be pro-triathlete-lean for a guy like me but that's what it takes at the pointy pointy end these days.

penlynwilson

I would not recommend any client of mine trying to lose that kind of weight in that time frame this close to a race. My concern is that reducing calories in can/will negatively impact your training when you need to be performing at your best. If you can cut 500 calories/day that is about a pound a week (about 3500 calories = 1 pound). Tracking your food can help in a huge way. I'm planning on getting into Bob's book/program next year to understand it better. I think you need access to metabolic testing to really get it to work.

Looking forward to seeing you at IMAZ (John, my hubby is doing it, too).

penlynwilson

Posted By Rich Strauss on 28 Sep 2010 09:11 AM

My notes:

• LoseIt, or similar logging tool, rocks. As endurance athletes training 6-15+hrs per week, it's a no brainer to create a calorie deficit every day...as long as actually track what we're eating and how much we are burning.
• I found that I can manage a loss of 1.5-2lb per week...just barely. But if I had days, usually on the weekends, where I created massive 1500-2000 cal deficits, I would definitely feel it the next day.
• Though I don't like PM workouts, they were very effective in easily creating calorie deficits. I would eat well and log my stuff all day, arriving at 5pm with only about 200-300 cals left in my daily budget...then do a hard 2hr ride (carrying sportsdrink and/or a bar in case I needed it), burn 1700-1800 cals, sit down to my massive salad + massive fruit plate with 2k+ in my budget. I litterally couldn't eat enough food to hit my budget and would go to be about 500cals under = about 1500cals on the day. That was a little on the risky side but it worked for me.

I have aggressive race and body comp goals for IMWI next year and want to reap the speed and training benefits of training < 155lb from about Feb through July, then do a little push to get me into the low 150's, maybe even see 148-149lb on the scale one morning. This will be pro-triathlete-lean for a guy like me but that's what it takes at the pointy pointy end these days.

Rich: Would you do this kind of calorie reduction 8 weeks out from a race? I'm good with it during other times, but 8 weeks out from a race would concern me.

Coach Rich

@Penny, nope, he said, while eating an Old Fashioned Donut at Starbucks

scott dinhofer

All good comments, i found an APP for the droid that is very similar to the one you described and starting using it. i have one big goal, finishing IMAZ in a respectable first time timing. losing the weight is secondary. I am a big believer in "listening to your body" if the body needs more, it will get more. how will i know? it won't be just that i still feel hungry, it will be that my workouts are being affected by the lack of proper fuel.



the app is called "calorie counter" it seems to have everything in there including chain restaurants, it is also linked to a website where you can sync and also enter info www.fatsecret.com. I went to applebees with the kids last night (no, not alot of choices) Westchester County (NY) passed a law last year requiring all restaurants to list the calories of their meals. i think it applies to chains only. so i got their asian chicken salad with grilled chicken, 490 cals. all of the applebees menu was in the app!



Generally speaking Coach Rich's long post elsewhere in this section was great, I am a big fan of the "big ass salad" so that is good. i started out today with a package of sliced zucchini and squash (96 cals total) on my desk, great for filling me up...



keep the comments going, i will try to put something in a here every week to keep you all apprised of status, will also get on the scale in my gym same time, 1x a week to get that log going and report in...

chicastacy

 Scott- have you checked out livestrong.com, they have an app similar to lose it but works for those of us non-iphone peeps.

Anywho it has a lot of the hammer products, etc...that I have not been able to find with other calorie counters, just a thought.

See you in AZ! Stacy

Coach Rich

Scott, I've found that if want to stay on my game I need to log everything and weigh myself every day. Weighing myself has me starting the day with reminder of my goal and my progress towards/away from it. I also check the color of my urine obsessively (Marine thing, seriously) and the scale just helps me notice trends, etc.

Swoodowrth

Posted By Rich Strauss on 28 Sep 2010 09:11 AM

My notes:

• LoseIt, or similar logging tool, rocks. As endurance athletes training 6-15+hrs per week, it's a no brainer to create a calorie deficit every day...as long as actually track what we're eating and how much we are burning.
• I found that I can manage a loss of 1.5-2lb per week...just barely. But if I had days, usually on the weekends, where I created massive 1500-2000 cal deficits, I would definitely feel it the next day.
• Though I don't like PM workouts, they were very effective in easily creating calorie deficits. I would eat well and log my stuff all day, arriving at 5pm with only about 200-300 cals left in my daily budget...then do a hard 2hr ride (carrying sportsdrink and/or a bar in case I needed it), burn 1700-1800 cals, sit down to my massive salad + massive fruit plate with 2k+ in my budget. I litterally couldn't eat enough food to hit my budget and would go to be about 500cals under = about 1500cals on the day. That was a little on the risky side but it worked for me.

I have aggressive race and body comp goals for IMWI next year and want to reap the speed and training benefits of training < 155lb from about Feb through July, then do a little push to get me into the low 150's, maybe even see 148-149lb on the scale one morning. This will be pro-triathlete-lean for a guy like me but that's what it takes at the pointy pointy end these days.

Rich. This and your wiki on your nutrition plan are so helpful!  I too am looking to be at or near goal in Dec so that I don't have to worry so much about the food from Jan to May IMTX.  Thanks for the info!

niemsco

@Rich - I started to log my calories with a BB app called Calorie Counter by FatSecret, since reading your post and also not having an iPhone for LoseIt. I find the BB app to very helpful and think twice about something after I look it up in the app. The app is pretty good at finding stuff.  I hope it helps me with some aggressive weight goals for CdA

Sounds like the same app Scott just mentioned above

 

davidcain91

Great thread here - @Rich - Thanks for the advice & motivation on your big post that was referenced above. I just broke out my calorie counter software and will start logging everything again! @Scott- I'm also racing AZ and could lose 10 lbs - I could tell I was too heavy at times on my RR ride last weekend. Based on the feedback you got above, it sounds like I can safely target getting down 5 lbs b/w now and AZ. And, then try to concentrate on getting much lighter for IM TX next spring.

Has anyone had any luck mixing in protien shakes or anything similar into their day? I'm hungry very soon after eating plain veggies, so I thought about mixing a protien shake in between meals to buy myself some time.

penlynwilson

Posted By David Cain on 13 Oct 2010 02:39 PM

Great thread here - @Rich - Thanks for the advice & motivation on your big post that was referenced above. I just broke out my calorie counter software and will start logging everything again! @Scott- I'm also racing AZ and could lose 10 lbs - I could tell I was too heavy at times on my RR ride last weekend. Based on the feedback you got above, it sounds like I can safely target getting down 5 lbs b/w now and AZ. And, then try to concentrate on getting much lighter for IM TX next spring.



Has anyone had any luck mixing in protien shakes or anything similar into their day? I'm hungry very soon after eating plain veggies, so I thought about mixing a protien shake in between meals to buy myself some time.

David: I'm not surprised you are hungry eating just plain veggies. My rule of thumb is to have some carbs, protein, and healty fat at each feeding. So, add some plain yogurt, cottage cheese or low fat cheese to your snacks. The protein and fat should help keep you fuller longer.

scott dinhofer

@david: I just got seperated a year or so ago and she got the scale:-( so i havent bought one yet. I havent been on one since starting this thread, but have been using a calorie counter app on my droid and online, fatscience.com. it is great. has me focused and i see what things 'cost' me, even the more than occassional oreo or pop tart. setting up a daily calorie deficit of 250-500 cals and then on the days of the big rides, runs, etc even more! Trust me i am dining out and not always having the most low cal meals, but it is working.

i have definitly been losing weight and not going hungry. the BAS (big ass salad) is a good thing that i have almost every day. I believe in Muscle Milk, love the banana creme if you can find it. they have a strawberries and cream that is pretty good as well.

bottom line is people have been telling me i look like i lost more weight and my daily belt is one notch tighter, so it is working. I will be IMAZ still 15 lbs more than i want to be for IMLOU next year!! but this if my first year back into training, so taking baby steps!