Ooops, I did it again

Coach Rich

...rolled my left ankle, badly.

My general foot and left ankle problems are legendary. I have flat, flat, needed to get a waiver to join the Corps flat feet. I've rolled my left ankle probably two dozen times to the point where it's a noodle and basically disconnected from my leg.

So......

I haven't run since March, just survived the most challenging 2-day bike race in the country, climbing over 29k in two days, and I roll the shit out of my ankle putting a tarp over our trailer. I was jumping the 12" gap between the roof of the trailer and the roof of my garage, led with my left foot, landed wrong on the garage roof and WHAMMM!!

It's swelled up pretty good now but feeling better and better. Good news is, with a loose ankle like this it's about impossible to break anything.

Riley is pretty pissed though cuz he had Monday, Sept 27th circle on his puppy calendar as the day that Daddy would start to run him again. Now he has to wait and he's bummed...

Kitboo

Aawww! Poor Riley!!

I suffer the same affliction: flat, flat feet + chronically rolled ankles = feet attached to legs by shreds of ligaments.  I've found that wearing compression helps with the swelling. Lots of ice several times a day. And getting some ART to the area has helped it get back to "normal" quicker.

I talked to my podiatrist about my stoopid floppy ankles. He recommended running shoes with "lower profile" as in not alot of thick out and mid-sole. A shoe lower to the ground is more stable and I'd be less likely to roll my ankle especially with trial running. Something to think about...

Leigh Boyle

So what are you doing for it treatment wise??

Compression, compression, compression. If you don't have socks, head to CVS and buy the old dude post op knee socks to help get the swelling out. way cheaper and same effect.

Goal is gentle range of motion stuff to tolerance. Definitely not a no pain no gain. Start off with ankle circles, ups/downs, ins/outs and work your way up to calf stretches. helps get rid of the swelling and get your mobility back.

re: shoes. low profile is best for flat feet/floppy ankles. this is the group that benefits from switching to flats and minimalist shoes, assuming that you have good big toe mobility, ankle ROM, and hip strength. When you don't have the prereq's that's when you get in trouble and joined the vibram injured reserves.

Coach Rich

Sitting here with it iced, wrapped.

I'll get the socks this afternoon and will start with the exercises.

Any specific make/model for the shoes?

Keith Wick

one thing I remember my dad (who's a PT) doing when we rolled our ankles was to take a thin piece of felt (or something like it) and cut it in the shape of a U. You then put the U shape around the ankle (so the ankle bone sits in the curve of the U) and it helps compress the fluid from around the joint. Definitely helped move the swelling more than just a standard wrap.

Hasanbaydoun

Rich,
you have flat feet, but the most important question is whether you reconstitute that arch in a functional way - ie, if you toe rise on one leg, do you have an arch, or does it remain flat? what side hurts on your ankle - on the inside?
2 things you need to address - current situation to alleviate your symptoms, and then address the underlying pathology to prevent recurrence
1. Leigh gave you everything you need with regards to taking of yourself now.
2. preventing recurrence can be the tricky part, especially that you have a recurring injury. your ligaments are shot at this point.... however, what you really need at this point is to retrain your muscles to take care of that joint. I personally found (no supporting evidence) for that is a bosu ball, and use it frequently. A patient told me that he started brushing his teeth standing on a bosu ball. strengthening all the muscles around the ankle will also help, but we will need somebody REALLY SMART to give us the exact exercises (Leigh?) ;-)
-hb

Bryan Ogle

You have a real minimal, low rider shoe in the ruby red dorothy slippers I gave you.

Leigh Boyle

every shoe manufacturer has a spectrum....most of them call their minimalist shoes "lightweight performance trainers" or "performance neutral". They are basically a step up from racing flats or in some brands they are the flats. Before I head to the shoe store I go to a site like Road Runner shoes and look at the brands that I like. On the left they group the shoes by what type they are. For example-

Shoe Type:
Stability (7)
Stability Plus (4)
Performance Stability (2)
Neutral (7)
Neutral Plus (1)
Performance Neutral (4)
Motion Control (1)

That way when you get there you have the models you're looking for and aren't relying solely on the salesperson.

as far as exercises, if you have some resistance tubing google ankle theraband exercises. if you don't have tubing, wrap and ankle weight around your foot and you can do the same types of exercises with the added resistance. these are more or less the up/down, in/out type of exercises. once those are easy, the next next step is single leg balance type stuff.

Yasko Howell

Leigh, I just found this thread, and am curious why minimalist shoes are better for flat feet. I have flat feet, have sprained my ankles many times in the past like Rich (while I was a gymnast, and later in adult life) and I always choose Motion control shoes (Asics-Gel foundation) to better support my ankle (so I thought...)

Leigh Boyle

the trick with flat feet is to decrease the time it takes to get the foot all the way flat. In traditional shoes, you are forced to land on the outside and then roll in on the arch. for flat feet that's a huge amount of torsion to make that happen as the whole inside of the foot must flatten, not just the ball of the foot. with a minimalist shoe, the foot is able to land more in the middle versus the outside so the work is cut in half and the load on the foot is decreased. does that make sense??

re: the sprained ankles. the flatter the foot, usually the less stability you have on the in/outside of the ankle. you catch that edge because the shoe forces you over to the outside and voila. less strength to prevent the roll.

William Jenks

Rich-

Just a personal anecdote... I too flattish feet (though maybe not as bad as yours). For years, I ran in stability type shoes with an orthotic and the whole bit. When I followed the advice Leigh gave (going to a "performance neutral" type shoe), I suddenly had a lot fewer problems. I'm now doing the Newton thing and running without my orthotics too.. but you may or may not want to go that direction. Anyway, just an encouraging word to look at these less structured shoes...

Not sure if this is what Leigh is talking about, but I think she's talking at one point about a smaller difference between heel and forefoot ("low profile"?). The Zoot line has a smaller rise than most from front to rear, and of course the Newtons are the same way, but more extreme. I've had a hard time finding measurements on most of them.

Good luck with it.

rkling

For finding out the mm difference between heel and toe, Runningwarehouse.com does post these measurements for many of their shoes.

I have also had problems with ligament laxity in my ankles from years of playing basketball and spraining ankles (not to mention flatter feet as well). To rehab the ankle, after the pain and swelling are gone, re-training/improving your proprioception helps to decrease recurrence of ankle sprains. There are a lot of ways to do this, such as balance boards and Bosu balls. To start out with, though, you can do simple exercises, such as balancing on one foot. Do this whenever you get the chance (standing in line for coffee is a great time!) for 30-60 seconds at a time, and alternate. When this gets easy, close your eyes. Changing the dynamics as you are balancing (leg in front, leg to the side, leg behind, one-legged squats) adds to the challenge. And using surgical tubing to strengthen the muscles around the ankle (internal rotation, external rotation, dorsiflexion, plantar flexion- basically, stressing the ankle through all planes) will help.

I can also scan in some exercises (from a sports med book that I use) that demonstrate some of these if any of you are interested.

Yasko Howell

Thank you, Leigh. Never had the advice from anyone before, and it's an eye opener for me. With William's experience and your advise, I think I will give it a try to wear neutral shoes once my hip pain is gone

Richard, I am interested in seeing the exercises if you have time to post. BTW, are you the one often in the podium at Ft. Lewis TTT series? I recognized your name. I usually race in one of the 3 every year. Welcome to the team!

rkling

Yasko:

I don't think I should scan the exercises to the forum (I'm guessing that this would be a copyright infringement). But I can send them individually. Send me an e-mail (r_k_ling@hotmail.com) and I can send (for anyone else that wants them as well).

And yes, I've been doing the Ft. Lewis Tri's for many years; I was trying to figure out why your name was familiar, too!

And I just saw an earlier post that Leigh sent that said the same thing I recently posted. Sorry about that, Leigh.