ROI on more expensive equipment
Let say you buy a properly fitted tri bike for $2500. Or let's say instead you buy one for $5000. Can one estimate how much better you will perform on the more expensive bike? I'm wondering about this about other equipment too, like a $300 wetsuit that fits right vs. a $650 wetsuit that fits right. Most of the time, more expensive equipment will be built better, be lighter, have better technology, etc. But how much can one equate better equipment to better performance?
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Sure, I'll help you spend your money
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My thoughts: considering how much time you're going to spend on your bike, how much a part of your lifestyle it is, how "relatively" inexpensive it is compared to other stuff/hobbies you could have, how relatively inexpensive upkeep is once you have the bike (tubes, tires, tunes? No oil changes, $85/hr shop labor, etc), I think, at least for the bike, you get the best you can afford, even if you can't afford it
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I bought my Calfee in '02. I have no idea how much I spent on it (it wasn't that bad). I do know that it's given me thousands and thousands of hours of fun and lifestyle.
When compared to my other hobby of a $4-8k dirtbike, $1k in body armor, $50+ in gas per trip, can drop $2k on farkles for the bike without even thinking about, breaking something and paying to fix it nearly every ride...cycling is cheap
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Is an $8k bike worth twice the performance of a $4k bike? No, but $8k amortized over years and years of fun and pride in your bling is pretty cheap...as long as its your money and not mine
If you want all that bling for less dollars, buy used. Last year's $5K bike is now $4K.
The ultimate test I guess would be to go to a bike shop, get fit for a $2K bike, drop your PT wheel on the back and hammer around the block. Come back for the $4K bike and repeat. Twice as fast? I doubt it.
My two cents (riding a used $1K road bike, with a $1K used PT and new fancy carbon handle bars $300)
A great deal right now is the QR Cd.01 with ultegra group for $3k. Get a cinqo or PT and you have a great upper end frame that you can upgrade components on. I've started many sports with a lower end set of equipment then wished to get the best. In cycling you often can get the upper end frame with lower end components then shop eBay for steals on the good stuff.
Vince
Sort of like Rich hinted at, I think the biggest ROI on expensive equipment is how much fun you have playing with the toys. No the extra $$ may not always make you that much faster on race day (think dimpled wheels here), but if buying the dream bike makes you want to go ride it everyday then it is more than worth the $$.
After spending the time to find stuff that fits well, I most almost nothing this summer -- replacement cleats, a few jerseys, a couple pairs of running shorts. (jumping from HIM to IM didn't seem to require different gear -- just more of it.)
The funny part? My favorite tri shorts actually cost less than the ones I've deemed only fit for short course racing.
I went from a Scott Plasma 07 to a Guru Chrono last year and the Chrono was about twice expensive than the plasma frame. The reason I switched was because unfortunately I was fitted for a bike that was really too big for me. Unfortunately being a newb, not knowing a lot of people, and the shop just stinking, it is what it is. I ended up with a lot of bandaids over time (adjustable stem, ...) to make a decent fit, and did pretty well.
Last year went through a Retuel fit, got a custom Guru, really like it, however I don't think I got any faster from the more expensive frame. Not at all. I'm a bit more comfortable that's it. Speed came through raising my FTP. In fact my first IM race my bike split was the exact same as with my plasma, despite a higher FTP!
So my opinion is that there is little to no performance gains when you are talking about those types of prices to begin with, at least with frames. If I had it do over again, I might of gotten another plasma frame, used, (rather than the guru), then just went with zipps and a wheel cover. Can't speak for the wetsuit.
Just want to put it out there...the best thing you can spend your money on is:
1. A decent-quality bike that FITS. FITS. FITS. Did I say FITS?
2. A power meter.
3. A Garmin to run with pace.
Those three elements in place, and you will improve your performance to as far as your genetic potential will let you go.
My buddy Phil and I used to take our limited $$$ to the grocery store on Friday evening, looking for our cold beer selection for the weekend. We'd stand there for a bit in the refrigerator aisle and stare at all the various beers. We'd finally look at each other, and ask "quality or quantity?". We'd both smile, then both say at the same time "QUANTITY!", everytime (meaning cases of Lucky Lager or Milwuakee's Best-aka "The Beast"). Well, that was college. Many years later, nowadays, it's all about QUALITY. Sometimes, these days, it means BOTH.
I had a lower model Trek road bike for my first few years of Triathlon. Then moved up to a tri-bike several years ago, and did it good. A (at the time) top of the line carbon Kuota Kalibur, with 100% dura-ace. A few years ago, I gave my old Trek road bike to my dad (he's getting good use out of it), and upgraded to an all-carbon Specialized Tarmac.
Now I've got both, road and tri bikes. And I love riding either - and both!
I also upgraded my wetsuit last year. Partly because my old one looked raggedy, and my body shape had changed since my first tri season. Didn't hurt that I had a 20% off coupon to get it, dropping the price significantly, so I upgraded big time.
Moral of the story, like many others have said, if it gets you out there more often to do the workouts - or just have fun, then the ROI can only be measured by you.
Yes, I'm a cheapass too, so these purchases are difficult to justify, but they get easier the less impact they have financially (the more money I make, etc).
I'm most familiar with the Cervelo line, so I'll just comment using it as an example (but all ASSUMING it fits fits fits!). The most expensive thing to upgrade (generally speaking) is your frame, so one way of looking at it is to invest in the best frame you can and then slowly accumulate the rest of the stuff you want...
P1 - Al frame $1700 ultegra - quite functional
P2 - C frame $2800 ultegra - probably best bang/buck for long term (see Rich's post) cuz you get 9x% of the aero bit and all the comfort
P3 - C frame $3600 ultegra - $800 extra for under 1 min/hour. How much less? depends on fit
$4500 DA - This $900 would be better spent on a power meter unless you gotta lotta coin laying around
P4 - C frame $6000 minimum - Oy.
Now considering your question -
The P2 probably really costs you $2500. On top of that you buy a PT (or similar) for $1000-1500, a Garmin for pace $150-350, a used front race wheel ($500) and a Disc cover ($100), and an aero helmet ($150).
Now you're in the $4000-5000 range, and you've got everything good to go. :-) You're DEFINITELY faster with the $2500 bike, front race wheel, aero helmet, and PT wheel with a cover than you are with the $6000 bike with none of the aero bling and the PT.
Just a thought.
My thinking (not only for tri gear but really any large purchase) is that there is usually a threshold or sweet spot which effectively acts as a minimum if you're looking for quality, performance, longevity, etc. Beyond that range are gradually diminishing returns (at least when viewed from strictly quantifiable, objective criteria)
I'm a pretty visual guy so this reflects pretty much how I look at it: whether it's a car, a bike, a TV, a business suit, etc.
At very low cost I've experienced shortened use-life, excessive breakdowns, and/or more costly "after the purchase" fixes and upgrades. In the long run it ends up costing me more ($$ divided by enjoyment and time). All too often I've had to just write it off and replace it (effectively buying whatever it is twice... which isn't a morale boost to say the least).
Above the "sweet spot" you see a gradually slowing direct relationship between $$ and "return" although I definitely agree with Coach R, Al, and others on the psychological benefits, pure enjoyment, and other intangibles (aka 'mo betta bling
). You can end up paying a lot more than you can "justify" or better said quantify. But the key for me is always 1) how much you enjoy it and 2) how long you intend to enjoy it.
(Rich's thousands of hours on the bike probably works out to very little $$ per day... not to mention per mile
)
Of course I always try to work my way as far as I can up the sweet spot range (e.g., using discounts, buying used or previous model year bikes, selling what you already own to help finance, etc.)
I guess what it boils down to for me is value, which I personally define as cost divided by enjoyment times longevity. And for me, improved performance is part of enjoyment but that's not all it is.
Just my 2 cents...
First you need a bike that fits [the difficulty of getting one to fit is generally overblown but you do need it to fit]. Next I would suggest getting an aero frame. Some are more aero than others, no reason to have one that is a brick. Saving watts is saving watts. You do have a PM, right? If not get one. Functionally speaking, PT, Quarq or SRM will not matter much in terms of going fast. PT is the least expensive of the useful power meters for what we do here. Things like deep wheels, disk's [or covers] aero helmets, good tires and tubes will all make you faster on the same watts. I do not have any extra watts to give away to the field. If you do, or don't care, than it really does not matter to you. The nice thing about aero frames and good tires is that they are generally the same price as crappy ones.
More expensive components will not make you faster. Anyone who tells you that Dura Ace or Red stuff is faster than the cheaper stuff is full of crap. Saving half a pound of weight on a tri bike is not going to make any difference. Usually the same people who worry about the weight of their seat post are the same ones who have five bottles and all manner of other crap on their bike on race day.
In sum, spending money on the right stuff will make you go faster on the same watts. Deciding what that is worth to you is an entirely different matter. Through the years I have purchased better and better stuff mostly because I wanted to and really like it. I will not pretend that the DA group on my tri bike is faster than an Ultegra group would be but I like it more.
Good question. I agree with the concept of ROI, to the extent that the investment is in isolation: that is, there is no other choice that is forgone to make that investment. The reality is there is scarcity in the overall pool of dollars I have to spend, so I see a lot of my individual purchases in terms of their opportunity cost. Every buck I spend, it's almost a reflex to ask myself 'What experience do I have to forgo in order to make this purchase?' Or, 'Is the next to top-of-the-line' good enough?' As a result, I tend to cheapo out on things that are outside of the 'sweet spot' of value, and redirect my dollars to having 'experiences.' So although I have ultegra cranks, a 2006 frame, and can't remember the last time I bought something that wasn't second-hand, EBayed, or New Old stock, the upside is I redirect the $ to race in interesting, faraway places, or to take a few two week holidays to play on my bike up and down a mountain someplace warm. Or I don't get Zipp Wheels (even though everyone in my class does), but I get to play here on EN. That kind of thing.
And I guess to come back to your original question, it's the $ on those experiences (coupled with good value equipment), that has the big overall return. Call it the portfolio, if you will.
(On that, there was a good thread on 'value' in bike or tri purchases on ST a few years ago. I might revisit it, as the OP was a pretty interesting thinker and steered the thread quite nicely. Plus, it talked about bike parts, which is candy.)