Has anyone had experience with Total Immersion Swim Clinics?

Eric Rueppel

I'm looking at taking a swim Clinic in November put on by Total Immersion Swimming.  I'm just giving a shout out to the house to see if anyone has any input.

 

Thanks

scott dinhofer

where are you taking it? I Found a local coach on their site and checked with her and turns out she runs the TI clinics at a local Y. I just took my first class yesterday. She met me at 5:30 am to do a 1/2 hour catch up of what i missed the first two sessions.

It is definitly an interesting approach to long distance swimming. Very different (from what i can tell) from Masters swimming. i am technically in week 3 of a 9 week course, but i started to apply some of the principals in a workout immediatly following the class.

I figure that having not been coached or taught swimming since i was an early teen, it was time for a tune up... i didnt think i was doing it, but apparently i do raise my head when i breathe... i figure half of my potential increase in swimming will eventually be attributed to technique

Eric Rueppel

The clinic is in Grand Blanc ,MI. I live in Sturgis,MI. I'm in the same boat as far as needing a tune up on my swim technique. Thanks for the input.

Linda Patch

Hope Rich chimes in here, b/c he talks about having to do Total Immersion "exorcisms." LOL! He's not a fan.

I did the weekend many moons ago as a VERY novice swimmer. I think I was too inexperienced to really get much out of it. They say that doing drills 99% right is 100% wrong. So I always asked myself--then how the heck do you keep it up on your own? It's not like we can see ourselves swimming. That led me to believe that 1:1 swim instruction with a good teacher done regularly and over time is a better bet.

talltim

Full Disclosure: I have a long swimming background, and have not taken a TI course.

I have a number of current and former training partners who have, however, some from swimming backgrounds, but most not. By observation, my comment would be that if you're starting from zero technique, it may be helpful, but if you have more experience/base than that, I would not recomend it. They teach a very mechanical style of swimming that doesn't lend itself well to mass start or to any kind of fluidity in the water.

Now, YMMV, but I would bet you can get more swimming benefit ROI from the drills in the Swim Hack for OS than paying for TI. Better to do a video technique analysis 1x with a non-TI instructor and work on those areas as opposed to totally re-tooling how you swim.

Michael Johnson

Im a solid swimmer 30' HIM and 1:01 IM. I've not used TI. When looking closely I do have some concerns about the high degree of kicking that it entailed inorder to get the swim count down. Im not sure this is good for triathletes to kick to much. I think the EN Drills are superior. If you really want a comprehensive program try Swimsmooth.com.....you can buy an exact series of drills, program. I did it last year during the OS and I think it's pretty good. Just my 2 cents.

jburbatt

I couldn't find Rich's discussion on TI, but here's another thread where some of the techniques are discussed and whether or not it's helpful for the triathlete.

http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.com/Community/Forums/tabid/101/aff/24/aft/2901/afv/topic/afpgj/2/Default.aspx#42936

bret

I took a swim course with TI when I was a total swimming newbie. I think TI is beneficial to teach new swimmers body position in the water. If you've already mastered body position, then I think you could spend your resources better somewhere else.

scott dinhofer

OK, this thread and the one referenced above now have me questioning the wisdom of my new TI class, arrrrrrghhhh!!!!!

 

my only body position issue is lifting my head a little during breathing, but oddly enough i dont pull the opposite arm to lift me out of the water on it....

Tom Glynn

I agree with comments here. I think there is a swim lesson progression. I couldn't swim 50 yards comfortably when I signed up for a TI weekend course. Lots of practice later I could swim 2.4 miles. Needless to say I was thrilled. I've now moved on to masters and I'm getting to the point where it's probably time for 1:1 coaching. I'm stuck at the 1:20-1:25 IM swim time and need to get to the next level without massive yardage.

Gordon Cherwoniak

I'd have to agree with the comments from above.  If you are coming to swimming from relatively nothing then TI could help get you balance moving through the water. 

I did not take the coure but used the book which is miles apart from indiviual instruction with mixed results.  I swam a lot as a kid at the lake and took lessons a couple or so away from being able to lifeguard.  I did not swim much between 14-30 when I pick up tri.  I was slow and had bad technique,  TI go me through Lake Placid 2004 in 1:31:58.  This was my 3rd year of tri's and my apartment had a pool, so swmming 3X week was not a problem.  I did see improvement in my swimming times but all I could do was long and slow.

Fast forward to 2009 when I joined EN for the November OS.  I drank the kool aid and did no swimming until 12-14 week before my IM.  I was coming off a 4 year tri layoff and a broken leg so basically starting over.  The swim ebook and drill in there are great.  My swim time at IMC was 1:31:05 and this was with much less time in the pool.  I also have to disclose that I did not manage my training as well as I should in the IM segment and when I took a day off it was from the pool so I can honestly say that I did not even give the full effort to swimming over the 12-14 weeks, perhaps 8 of those weeks I swam 3 times.

If it were me I'd probalby just work with the coach in the mornings getting private lessons or a small group and skip the TI.

Gordon

 

almendrafarms

for what it's worth, a little different perspective.... I did a TI clinic 2 years ago then took private lessons every couple of weeks for 4 months from one of the TI instructors and found it to be a great benefit to my swim technique and times. I wasn't a beginning swimmer but I hadn't swum for 25+ yrs when I started doing tri's a few years ago and I think that taking the lessons really helped to improve my form. the TI style works well for me but swimming can be very individual and so may not work so well for everyone. the clinic can give you a taste of what TI is all about but I agree with a lot of the other comments...doing private or small group lessons will help improve your stroke a lot faster. good luck!

Swoodowrth

My husband is a TI guru and a complete convert, however, he focused so much on form and took such pride in getting his stroke per pool length down to 12 strokes that it became annoying. I believe, like the other comments, it's great for developing form and wonderful for learning to swim. It has diminishing returns at some point. We have every TI book, every TI video and every TI drill guide. I even considered becoming a TI instructor. Just my two cents. I like the drills that are provided in the OS guidance much better. I like the golf drill because it allows you to focus on pace, form and stroke control. I don't know that I would become faster using TI but I do think based on what I see for the OS swim plan I will be faster. That being said, my husband finished the IM swim in 1:09 so he was fast to begin with. He just wanted to become more efficient.

Kevin Walter

I did TI 9-years ago and it was great at taking me from someone who struggled to finish an 800m swim to someone who could swim 2.4 almost effortlessly. I still do TI drills and they are pretty similar to the drills in the EN swim book. The problem is that they don't really help your speed much. This winter I am seeking out some one on one coaching to try to improve speed.

In short TI is great for the struggling newbie swimmer, but won't add anything to someone who already has a solid swim.

John Withrow

I was a newbie swimmer. Was a lifeguard in High School, but that was mostly to have a fun summer job and flirt with girls... fast forward ~18yrs and I started to get into Triathlon. I wasn't afraid of the swim leg, but would get really tired after a couple hundred yds in the pool, but pushed through. I took 5 individual TI coaching lessons last OS and it totally destroyed my swim technique. I bought into the philosophy though and did nothing but drills and TI technique for several months. I became a MUCH worse swimmer for the first 3 lessons (~2 months) or so and then it finally started to click. After the 5th lesson I "graduated" and now am MUCH more efficient. My swim times now are almost EXACTLY the same as where they were before I started TI (within a few seconds per 100), but before I would be exhausted after several hundred yds... Now I can swim for hours and come out of the water feeling like I didn't do anything. I'm a newbie to EN, but it seems to me like the EN philosophy cares less about 10 minutes on the swim and more about conserving energy. If that really is the case, I'm convinced TI is worth it, provided that you're not already a fast, efficient swimmer. I don't think a weekend seminar would have worked for me because it took a couple of weeks of drills for each step to sink in.

Bob Arsenault

I took my first TI class a year and a half ago and have been perfecting my technique since.   I really have not done any speed work in my IM training, just focussing on my stroke and swimming relaxed.  I also came from a non swimming background so was starting from scratch when I began TI

Last year at LP ( my 1st IM) I swam a 1:12:00    This year at Wisc. I swam a 1:10:00.    The most important factor to me with my TI technique is not swimming fast (which I don't) but swimming relaxed and conserving energy.  This point was truly proven out at Wisc. this year when I past 131 people in T1  ( Out of water in 531st place , started bike in 400th place).  This was only possible because I came out of the water running hard because I felt so fresh.   As I stated in my RR I'll give up some time in the swim to feel that good coming out of the water ( and hopefully have more energy to spend on the rest of the day).

That being said, this year I do plan on adding more speed  work, with my TI form to hopefully get faster.

Eric Rueppel

Thanks everyone. I swam 1:19 at IMWI this year. I felt great coming out of the water but I want to swim faster. I am going to take some one on one coaching during the OS just to work on technique. Great input from everyone.

Swoodowrth

Eric...off topic, but where is Sturgis in proximity to Ann Arbor? My husband is thinking of sending a resume on a job in Ann Arbor.

Eric Rueppel

Sturgis is about 2-1/2 hours West of Ann Arbor. Here in Michigan we measure distance by time.

usphsfnp

I have never done a TI clinic, but I have watched some of the videos they have on their website. I started swimming for the local YMCA team when I was 5, back when the "S" style of pull through was popular. I swam all the way through high school using that side-to-side style of pull. After high school I swam pretty much on my own using that same technique, and noticing I was getting out of the water at tri's with more and more people in front of me.
One year when the Olympics rolled around and the underwater cameras were really popular, I got to see Ian Thorpe's pull and it looked NOTHING like what I was doing. After a bunch of practice in trying to do what he was doing I realized my side-side stroke was cheating me out of a lot of speed, as I was actually spilling water and force out of my hand going to the side.
Over the years I've taken time off from tri's but and getting back into it, and doing a little swimming in the OS (i know, i know), but it's mostly slow, catch-up style technique practice. I can really tell when I'm getting it. You can feel a nice long glide, and it feels really easy.
How does this relate to TI? I don't know, but their videos don't look much like Thorpe or Phelps. TI might be good for a brand new swimmer who can make huge gains just by learning reasonable technique, but for someone with a background of PROPER swimming technique I think watch videos of good swimmers (Olympic or tri) and then trying to do what they do would be the best investment of time and money(free).

Bob Arsenault

Posted By Brian McDonough on 02 Oct 2010 11:45 AM

I have never done a TI clinic, but I have watched some of the videos they have on their website. I started swimming for the local YMCA team when I was 5, back when the "S" style of pull through was popular. I swam all the way through high school using that side-to-side style of pull. After high school I swam pretty much on my own using that same technique, and noticing I was getting out of the water at tri's with more and more people in front of me.

One year when the Olympics rolled around and the underwater cameras were really popular, I got to see Ian Thorpe's pull and it looked NOTHING like what I was doing. After a bunch of practice in trying to do what he was doing I realized my side-side stroke was cheating me out of a lot of speed, as I was actually spilling water and force out of my hand going to the side.

Over the years I've taken time off from tri's but and getting back into it, and doing a little swimming in the OS (i know, i know), but it's mostly slow, catch-up style technique practice. I can really tell when I'm getting it. You can feel a nice long glide, and it feels really easy.

How does this relate to TI? I don't know, but their videos don't look much like Thorpe or Phelps. TI might be good for a brand new swimmer who can make huge gains just by learning reasonable technique, but for someone with a background of PROPER swimming technique I think watch videos of good swimmers (Olympic or tri) and then trying to do what they do would be the best investment of time and money(free).

Brian, 

I don't disagree, but I know what I THINK I am doing and what I am actually doing, are 2 different things.  This is where a coach or a masters program, or doing a set of prescribed drills, TI or EN or swim smooth, are so important.

I'm always surprised when I see video of myself, swimming , biking or running.   I always say " that's what I look like".

I think learning this sport of ours is a progression.   I'm doing things different now, then I once did,   but back then I was not ready to do what I am doing now.  So maybe TI is a great start for many of us but eventual when we are ready we can progress to another level.

And that is what I love about this sport and EN, I am always learning something knew and continue to grow. 



 

usphsfnp

 Sure, you need to make sure that what you think you're doing is actually what you're doing.  If your perception for what you're doing isn't accurate, then you'd need a more objective point of view.  

I'm not saying TI is good or bad, I've never done it, so I can't really say.  Just some of the things he says just don't sound right to me.  I bet TI is great for getting a non-swimmer up to a certain level, but beyond that I don't think there is continued value.