Century / Double Century Hack
I am new to EN so pardon me if I couldn't find the appropriate resource. I saw that there is a hack to the OS for a marathon. There is guidance for transitioning to a HIM from the OS. I didn't find any guidance for the double century.
My wife bikes so I get major SAU for cycling with her. I am planning to start the OS in Nov. The first double century is just a few weeks after the end of OS. My A race isn't until summer's end so I have some time to play. My concern is that I may need to do a little more FAR for cycling before the OS ends while I should really still be focused on FAST.
Right now, I'm just thinking to add some time after the Thursday and Saturday bike rides starting around week 12 or so. There might also be one or two Saturdays that get extended earlier in the OS. I might also try moving the Sunday run to Saturday so I'd have a full day of rest in the case the weekend bike ride gets to be long enough to affect running the next day.
Anybody have any experience with combining fun long bike rides with the OS (or just after the OS)?
Thanks,
Rubin
Comments
I rolled the full OS last year (a January start) and wound up not doing any triathlons at all; I jumped into brevet riding and never looked back. My longest ride during the OS was 65 miles; my longest brevet ride was 625 miles! I did fine. If you can swing it, train with power; then execute your double wisely; you'll be shocked at how fast most riders go out and then how hard most of them blow up. Steady does it.
Having said all that I'm in much the same boat as you, wanting to ride long on occasion, thinking that I'll "need" the endurance. Maybe a WSM or the coaches will chime in with better guidance.
That said, I will probably add a few easy miles at the end of the Saturday ride this season as it gets closer to April. Not cause my legs need the endurance, but because my butt, back, and shoulders need the saddle time. My biggest limiter at TOC turned out not to be my energy, but my sore butt!
Oh- and I'm thinking about getting that saddle that Bill uses for his brevets. pricey for sure- but if it makes me less saddle sore, I'm all for it!
I agree with Nemo and Bill. What is your athletic background like? If you have years of riding under your belt then go with the OS program but add some miles in Z1-2 range mostly for saddle time and get your nutrition dialed in on the weekends. What you will find is that after a certain point in a double century, you just get fatigued and it becomes a mental excercise. If you are experienced rider then you know that discomfort that you are going to feel. Like Ironman, there will be people that start the ride going way beyond their abilities. Pace, Nutrition and Pain management. Also, you may be riding with lights depending on the time of year and location so don't forget to practice "night riding". It is pretty cool when your "Box" becomes the visible light in front of you and you are in the middle of nowhere.
To back up what every one else said, if you can ride 3hrs, hard, you can ride indefinitely with the proper pacing, nutrition, hydration, bike shorts, ass cream, etc
.
So what to do, how to modify your OS plan is really a function of where you live (will you be inside or out), your time constraints on the weekends, etc. But I would advise you to not think that you earn the right to ride 200mi by punching the clock on many, many, 5-7hr rides. Our experience is just not the case. In my experience, if you're riding easy to moderate, the difference between a 4.5hr ride and much, much longer is less about fitness and more about proper pacing and positional issues like neck, shoulder, back, etc. That's the stuff that gets me, not so much the legs.
Nemo - Your idea of adding more miles on Saturday in April is what I was suggesting for me. My double is March 26. My OS ends in mid March. I thought it might be wise to add some miles in the third phase of the OS.
Jim - My athletic background is more study and persistence than talent. In my 30s, I worked real hard for a few years to run 10Ks in under 40. I did a few marathons. I did my first tri in 1985 and then did about 10 more through the late 80s. Kids, career, and 16 years, I started back swimming and cycling a few years ago. I added some slow running and have done a few tris since 2008. I am a slow swimmer but have done a 2 mile ocean swim each summer for the past few years. I did two 70.3s this year - Oceanside and Orlando. I bike between 350 and 500 miles a month. Most weeks I'll do a 2+ hr hill ride and a Saturday ride of 3+ hours. I've done a few centuries but nothing longer.
Coach R - I can ride 3 hours at an IF of .85 but I don't know if that counts as hard. I am here to listen and learn. Before committing to EN, my plan was to do 10-12 rides of 5-7 hours as well as a few even longer in addition to weekday sessions focused on getting faster (e.g. 2x20 at FTP) because I know that it will be an awfully long day if I can only mosey along at 14 mph. I am already sold on FAST then FAR. It is just that this "far" thing has a date that is close to the OS. As of now, my only plan is to follow EN guidance.
I live in So Cal, just down the bike trail from you. Indeed, I would see you this weekend at the GMR ride if I weren't already signed up for the Long Beach half marathon on Sunday. I don't have many time constraints, especially on the weekends.
After I finish the half marathon and rest up a little, I'll start the OS in November using the Cycling Outdoors option of longer Saturday rides. After that I'll have some questions that I will put on the Macro or Micro thread.
The questions will be about switching the Sunday run with the Saturday bike and brick; road bike vs. tri bike for long rides; and recommendations on double century pacing.
Thanks to all of you for the feedback. I like the planning and anticipation but I know that the start line and finish line (I hope) will soon be here! I am willing to do the work to be ready. With the team's guidance, I hope to do the right work.
Rubin
Rubin,
It sounds like you are another So Cal Peep. I will also be at the Long Beach Half this weekend. Some of us will be riding on Saturday from Temecula to Long Beach to the expo to pick up our race packets. Then run on Sunday. There are plenty of double centuries (and centuries) that are available living in So Cal. If you know the terrain of the double, then I would try to mimic some of that in the training. For example, the Hemet Double Century does not have the vertical gain of the Eastern Sierra Double. Some of the climbs will be long sustained vs short steep hills. Take a look at the profile and know the course. If you know that when you reach mile 160 most of the serious climbing is over, then that may be a mental spark that you may need.
Rubin,
10-12 x 5-7hr rides is WAY overkill. Your key to not mosey-ing at 14mph, as you said, is to lift your FTP, not put in huge long rides like that. By definition, the longer you ride, the easier your ride = little to no boost to your FTP. If it were me:
The feedback is much appreciated. I am looking forward to getting faster / increasing FTP. The funny thing is that the "massive over-distance workouts" are nothing more than the standard Saturday rides that some of my friends do. Going to Palos Verdes or Santiago Canyon or Chantry Flats to climb some hills is a typical 60-80 mile ride for them. All I have to do is show up 2 out of every 3 weekends for a few months and I get a whole lot of time in the saddle. They typically do a few doubles and some of the hillier centuries every year. It is fun to ride with them. Unfortunately, it doesn't directly help me prepare for triathlon riding since they ride moderately hard, draft, and take lots of breaks. I suspect riding with them improves my cycling but when doing my HIM training, I rode alone trying to keep my power steady and limiting stops.
My takeaway points are:
1. Proceed with the Nov OS as planned and focus on the bike interval sessions to lift my FTP.
2. Make the Saturday ride a hard (IF > .8? .85?) 3-3.5 hours during the OS. (I'll cut the ride time back if I start having trouble with the Sunday run.)
3. Although I should feel free to knock myself out a weekend or two with back to back 5+ hour rides, I won't.
4. For the first 14 weeks of the OS, I will do the prescribed workouts but come Feb 2011, I may ask about doing Sat and Sun hard rides for some of the last few weeks.
I am clear on the advice. Your coaching is showing me how to accommodate the side goal of doubles without derailing the main goal of IM Canada. Thanks! Now, I just have to execute...
@Jim - I am indeed a SoCal peep. Whittier. I'm tapering for LB so Sat for me is a day off. My wife volunteered to ride down on Friday to pick up the packet. Your plan to ride from Temecula may inspire me to join her but I really do like racing on fresh legs (I'm slow enough when rested).
@Bill - I've never ridden my tri bike more than 70 miles at a stretch. I know it is pretty comfy for 3.5 hrs but beyond that I have no data. My road bike is pretty good all day as long as I wear my good bike shorts. Maybe I'll ride my tri bike for my next century to see how it works out. Thanks for the encouragement and voice of experience.
One more thing: the OS is sneaky tough. Sure, the hours seem low, but the workload is remarkably high. Many before you have thought they could add in loads of extra credit then crashed 'n burned 12-14 weeks into their OS. Do you think you're the exception? Do you feel lucky?
Hey Rubin,
Yep, I see cats like that all the time up here in the mountains. Long, all day stuff on the weekends is just part of their lifestyle, I get that. But understand that you've signed up for squad who, as a rule and as a training method in either the OS or in season, want to clip in at 6a, rack the bike at 10a, get back to their life by 11a, but jam as much SPEED increasing training in that 4hrs. Not sit on a bike training, ass, neck, shoulders, training, but what do I do from 6-10a that will make me faster?
See our "Volume Elephant" thread in the General Discussion forum for my experience with volume.
Bill the Brevet Rider has shared with you his thoughts and experiences.
We have 4yrs of Tour of California experience, with northeast peeps jumping off trainers, with 3-5hrs of total volume per week, and into 25hrs+ of very challenging cycling in one week.
Bottomline, in my experience and opinion, regular, consistent rides longer than 4hrs are a lifestyle choice, not a training method. We have too much experience around here that says 3-4hrs, very, very hard does a MUCH better job at making you MUCH faster than regular, consistent 5-7hr rides. That's a lifestyle choice, not a training method, even if you're training for a double.