Volume addict
Hi my name is Eric, and I'm addicted to volume.
I don't really know when the addiction started. One day I was planning out my season and this urge to do multiple 20+ hour weeks hit me. After that it became a compulsion. And I was only training for a 1/2 iron. I never actually hit the 20 hour barrier because my long rides tended to bury me (too much intensity) What will happen to me in 2012 when I bump to an IM distance race? Will I ever be heard from again?! 
Even as recent as yesterday, I was looking at my EN OS plan and adding in workouts. I've never followed the plan as this is my first season with EN. But 2 days off?!?! (In my defense I really like running 6 days a week and was only adding in recovery runs. 
) But still....I should give it a try before simply adding workouts.
Is there a cure?
Comments
uhhh Yep the cure is probably a cronic injury...this will then become your coach and training partner!! Right R and P?
Been there...doing it myself
Eric, my notes:
Finally, Patrick and I didn't just make this stuff up. You've dropped into a squad now in it's 4th iteration of this OS-style of training. Many of our current members have been through ALL of these cycles with us...3x going on their 4th round.
I suggest you reflect on all of _that_ and try it our way.
I'm printing your post and taping it to my bathroom mirror, refrigerator, steering wheel, and gym bag.
Eric,
From an n=1 sample size, I can say that after 4 wks of EN-ish OS work, Rich is right. It sort of sneaks up on you, but you may suddenly find yourself unaccountably tired even though your spreadsheet/tracking tool says 'you're not doing much...'. Somewhere deep into my second 10 min interval at LT on Sat, I concluded that this was pretty damn hard - esp for Oct(!).
Seriously though, I have had to move a few things around b/c of work or family obligations and that is where I've felt it most. Tuesdays on the OS schedule are tough, and if you for example end up flipping Sat and Sunday, then Tue will hurt more.
Seems like you need something to occupy your time. Get a hobby. Spend time with the family/friends. Soon you will love that the plans are only 6-8 hours a week as you will need the rest.
My advice to all newbies would be to trust the plan and methodology behind them. All of the veterans will say that. Here is my take.
The OS plans are intense. The are hard. By month 2-3 you will start feeling the effects of that intensity. It will become harder to hit your intervals due to your now increased fitness and the buildup of fatigue. It becomes very mental. You will wonder why you can't hit a 2 x 1 mile at TP because it sounds so easy and you are only running 2.5 hours per week. You need to take advantage of your rest.
Okay so now you are finished with the OS and can't wait to use your increased fitness and apply it to your HIM/IM plan. You want to show your buddies how much fitter you are now. But this is where I screwed up. RnP say we should take 2 weeks to transition plan. I felt like I couldn't do that because I had a HIM coming up in 8-9 weeks. I never took a step back to relax and do unstructured stuff. That break is needed both physically and mentally. I ended up with two races I was not happy with and felt sluggish most of the time. I really think that 2 weeks would have really helped in the long run.
I say this because I have seen a lot of folks this year join EN and are super excited. That's great. But some are also coming off of their race seasons and now they want to jump right into the OS because they have heard of these fantastic gains they will see. Will they see them. Sure, but at what price. What happens when they become burnt out in January and don't want to even look at their bike? I know most here are type A and don't want to wait, but I really think people need to show some caution. It's a long season.
And above all else, trust the plans and RnP. They have kind of figured this out. Work hard when they say so and rest hard when they don't. No need to add anything to the plans or rush things. The results will come.
First, let me say this. Much of my post was in jest. I'm new, gotta make a name for myself as the class clown. That's a seperate compulsion. Sure it is all technically true. The compulsion, the desire, the warm fuzzy...wonderful volume...its true. I can't deny it. One look at my WKO will show that. Even the craziness of 3hr steady state rides around 90% FTP...where I crushed myself for the week coming. But I digress.
Having said that, (I've brought this up in the macro thread too)...I fully intend to use the plan "as is" for at least the first several weeks if not longer. Afterall, that is why I am here. If I were going to simply do my own thing I should have bought a plan and modified it my way. But I decided upon the full membership for a reason.
My real unspoken fear is injury from hard running. Prior to November 2009 I was always banged up. Plantar F being the main culprit. In Nov 2009 I started following BarryP's program from Slowtwitch. Everything he posted really resonated with me, specifically the way to slowly increase run volume, doing little to no speed work. I followed his run program for all of 2010 and for the first season ever did not have an injury from running. (I fell on my face a couple times, but that's acute, not chronic).
Anyway, with that program and some weight loss my 5k split in a sprint went from probably around 8:45's to 6:30's. I also enjoyed running. Loved it even. Talk about positive reinforcement. Anyway, my fear is now two-fold.
First...this plan is essentially the opposite of BarryP's plan. 4 run days, many of them being harder runs vs. 6 run days with all runs following Daniels paces where only one run is a threshold running. That scares me. Perhaps it is just a confidence thing, not sure. I'm using humor as a defense mechanism...can't help it.
In many ways I feel like I am an advanced swimmer, advanced cyclist, but a beginning runner.
Second, I don't actually doubt I'd get faster on this plan, I want to be clear about that. I don't doubt the value of the plan and want to add volume for the sake of volume. I can see why the philosophy works and know its worked for many. I am just struggling to reconcile the difference between what did work for me from an injury and speed perspective and this plan.
I think everyone will agree that the best way to improve over time is through consistency. Well, you can't be consistent if you're hurt, right? So the biggest fear, one that impacts almost every aspect of my life, is going too hard and getting another injury similar to ones that sidelined me for months and months.
Hopefully I've articulated my fears in an understandable manner as my brain is a jumbled mess when I think about it. I know I'm OCD, anal, a little insane, OCD, anal, did I mention anal? But that is the only place I struggle with this plan. I loved running with BarryP's plan. I love running hard. I just fear the injuries that can come with running hard...and BarryP's words of run frequency & volume added with consistency over speed work are ringing in my ears. The power of the dark side pulls me!!!
Thoughts??
So even though I don't have a volume problem at all (hey, I took off 4 days last month with nothing more than a recovery swim or 30 minutes on the rower), I thought I'd sign up and try the EN way. I'm planning to take a few days off after the Long Beach half marathon on 10/17 and have no big plans except for a teeny weeny century ride with my wife in mid-November.
Like Eric, I also have concerns about lots of hard running. Fortunately, some of the weight that caused me the greatest concern has melted away in the last couple of years of training. In addition to wanting to do my first IM, I also want to tackle a double century not long after the OS ends. For now, I am committing to the EN way. I plan to enjoy the Koolaid. I'm giving up my Monday ride. No more Saturday excursions for a while (except once in a while as a lifestyle choice, not a training mandate). I am looking forward to interacting with the squad and getting faster. Maybe I'll even have time to read a few more books and see a movie or two.
Thanks for your post and your humor.
" I'm new, gotta make a name for myself as the class clown. That's a seperate compulsion"
Step in line! I think there's a pretty good lock on that position between Officer Ford, Chris M, and Chris G!
Seriously, the sense of humor will serve you well here! As for the injury fear, that's pretty real. Don't be afraid to back down to a "Beginner" plan if the runs look a little to risky for you.
As for the Volume addiction, we have a 12 step program for that. The first step is admitting to yourself and another human being that you have a problem. I'd say you are on your way to recovery!
Class clowns get in line is right! We also have the Starkman, and the Assman ahead of you. Y'all can apprentice for the OS!
I'm just going to weigh in briefly. I have been a member since day one. This is my fourth OS. I have had this conversation more times than I can count now. In the end, the reality is this...we can't save you from yourself. If you can't take in and abide by what hundreds of athletes have experienced here--including RnP's own experience of seeing tons of athletes circle the drain b/c of a compulsion to do more--then there's not much more we offer up. No one here is so "special" (to use Rich's term), that this program--in the long run--won't kick your ass from here to kingdom come. Race training too. Sure you might have to adapt/modify along the way, but that's a small piece of this discussion.
The pity is that if you do too much, you won't get as much out of EN as you could--i.e. speed. It's what your after, and certain actions in the scheme of this training are counterproductive. Now coming onto my fourth season knowing the training intimately, I have also come to the conclusion that it takes a certain mindset to embrace the "less is more" paradox that actually works. And we're talking about less time spent--not about less ass-kicking intensity!
The vets just try to save y'all from the mistakes we've made, and some lessons we learned the hard way ourselves. Stupid things we did often backfired, while the plans took us to where we wanted to go in the first place. 
Oh, and Noodle. How could we forget Noodle?!
@Nemo - class clown? that hurts...I thought I was clear that it was wicked smartASS member
To the OP and the other "volume addicts" out there:
Welcome to the Haus, that is great that you are here cause you want to take that last 10-15 minutes off your sub 9:30 IM pr, the last 5 minutes off of your sub 4:20 half IM pr and finally reach your goal of going sub 2 hours in the local olympic next summer. Glad to have you with us. Oh what, you are not a sub 10, sub 4:30, 2:05 guy? Then what exactly have you been doing for this claimed 20 hours a week?
I have hashed this out many times but generally I call BS on the 20 hour folks, that comes to 2 hours a day, every week day and 5 hours a day on each of the weekend days. No days off. You had best be riding at least a couple hundred miles a week and run 50 miles a week if you are putting that kinda time in. That time commitment is not really sustainable, especially if you have a job or a social life. If you are including lollygagging rides to and from the bakery in this "training time" maybe that is part of your problem.
I have been a 6 day a week runner for a long time. I have also been near the top of the board in most of my friend Dev's run every day challenges on ST. Sometimes while doing OS stuff. I also know that I have made the biggest gains when I stopped thinking for myself, stopped doing anything because a bunch of ST jackasses are doing it and just did the workouts as written.
My suggestion is to do the OutSeason workouts as written for a few weeks and report back. If you are hitting all the metrics and feel like you need more let us know.
@ Chris G Ouch! man that is sharp!
Guess I wont post any of my stupid ideas anytime soon!
Love the wit, and fun but I need to go for a run...
Here is a list of things that make me "special" and why the paranoia is so strong.
First race this year - fell off bike direclty onto arse. bruised for weeks.
second race of year - came ripping into T2, pedal hit curb, I fell face first straddling my bike at the expense of knees. won age group with blood dripping down knees.
Fourth race of year sprained my knee entering water at start of swim.
Did a half marathon after a week of being sick - strained my calf.
New bike fit has been causing low back, IT band, knee, ankle, foot problems for the last month. Getting it looked at tomorrow.
It really isn't a question of me being smarter than the coaches on getting faster. Just questions on injury prevention from a guy who seems to have a subconsious self-loathing issue.
OMG, this is looking like a SlowTwitch thread. NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Somebody shoot me!
@Eric - if you are concerned about injury, throttle back the intervals a bit. Do your 5k TT to get your vDot and your zones. Do the workouts as planned but back off by :15 to :30 per mile pace, or whatever is comfortable. After a few weeks if all is well then pick it up a bit. We are all individuals and we can't all be like Chris G.
And I will also say that if after 4 weeks of doing the OS you still want to add mileage/time . . . then do it. But I doubt that will happen. I remember looking at the OS plan when i was new a couple of years ago and emailed some local EN friends and said, "Only a 1 hour bike? You have to be kidding me!" After 3 weeks of OS that 60 minute mark in my PT display couldn't come fast enough! I was done!
Hope this helps.
John (aka Chris G. Groupie)
I don't see why you can't modify the plan if you see fit and can accommodate the time commitment. After all, RnP's plan structure, while excellent, may not be optimal for everyone without a little tweaking. I would suggest you do the plan as advertised for 4-6 weeks and see how you feel. If you think you need more running frequency, then by all means, add a run or two and cut back the intensity of the other runs. Better yet, post in the macro thread and see what RnP might suggest for modification.
Eric--totally post it in the macro. You'll get some guidance. Also, what you're describing is "side B" of what we have to do here--the self-coaching part. Yes, follow the plans, but don't run them into a brick wall.
We're not automatons, esp. when it comes to injury. If those modifications work for you without making you sacrifice quality, and keep you uninjured, you're good. Tweak around with it the first 4-6 weeks, and by then you'll have a much better idea of how much running works and what might not. What Stark said is great advice.
What Steve said. This is the power of team membership, as you can ask us, and the team, for help with modifying what would otherwise be an off the shelf training plan.
Falling off of your bike and getting hurt does not make you special around here...
On a serious note what is your background in running? You wrote that prior to 11/09 you were always "banged up", sounds like you have been pretty banged up since then also. When you say 6 days a week how many miles are we talking about? How many miles in 09, 08, 07, 06 etc.
No matter how you choose to go about it you need to be a bit careful as you have set some very ambitious goals. Assuming that your current Vdot is accurate 48 [5k of 20:39], your plan to get to 56 [5k of 18:05] is going to take careful planning and lots of hard work. As someone who has gone from being a 21 min to 18 min 5k runner I know of what I speak. There is a HUGE, like drive a truck through it, difference between the 2. Baby steps along the way. There are no short cuts to dropping that kind of time. Steady amounts of hard work. If you have not done so buy the Daniels book.
At the risk of repeating myself, stop thinking about it. If you knew enough about it to second guess the program properly you would not be here in the first place. Obsess about race wheels and the correct tires, leave the running program to P. Seriously, shut your brain off for a while and just do the plan as written.
If this helps, I went from a vdot of 49 (20:20) in November '08 to 54 (18:40) in April '09. I just did the OS run workouts and nothing extra.
Oh I see how it is Nemo. Dont think of me as a class clown contender do you??! Just you wait and see. Im going to start doing 2X14 Zone for clown regimes right NOW.
Tough love, fair enough.
I have no real running background, I swam in school...and perhaps that's why this build a base mentality is in my brain. I re-started Tris in 2008. Ran quite a bit that year for me, didn't track it then. But stayed injury free most of that season. If I guessed I'd say 15-20 miles per week. I only did olympics. During the OS I screwed myself up and was not able to run until June-ish of 2009.
In 2009 I did IMWI on very little run training. I had a dropped metatarsal from the prior year and had a couple minor surgeries to fix things. (This was somewhat acute and caused by a bunyon surgery as a kid) I was conservative and got back to running in June. Actually did pretty well had run a couple 13 milers before IMWI. Knew going in that Id be walking a lot. That was fine. Felt fine afterward. Walked away injury free from IMWI. Started BarryP's program 3 weeks later and have not looked back.
From an injury standpoint my biggest fear is the chronic overuse injury as opposed to the I'm an idiot and falling on my face all the time injury. I was born a big dumb animal...too late to solve that problem.
As far as my goals...yes, very ambitious. I acknowledge that. One big thing in my favor...I'm currently 6'2 and 205lbs. I'm down from 260 two years ago. I have a legitimate 20-25lbs of fat to lose...it will be gone quickly. I've become good at taking it off in the OS, and I've already begun. That loss right there should help speed me up quite a bit...and that is part of the goal. beyond that if I get to an ftp of 345 and vdot of say 52-53...I won't be complaining. With some aero tweaks this OS my bike splits are going to improve even without any FTP gain. I was at 320 earlier this year and then fell flat with my training and it dropped. So getting back to 320 should be pretty easy with an actual plan instead of me being left to my own devices.
I've got what I would call one solid year of consistent running. I started at 100 min/week and built to 300 by spring. So a bit above 30 miles per week and stayed there most of the season. As I added in more biking that went down a bit...dropped off 4-6 miles depending on the week.
Hey, I've heard that Newtons make a nice clown shoe.
I'm a volume addict too! My hair can be thin and lifeless. I enjoy the following product.
Jut trust us and do the OS as written. After you do your first full OS as written, without getting injuries, if you really think you need more volume, then let's talk.
I love volume as well and it is great for runners... You are NOT A RUNNER and whether you notice it or not he OS bike workouts will impact your running.
Can you clarify one thing for us about your run injuries? Are they injuires that slowly creep up on you and you are the type of person that ignores the warning signs, therefore the injury is cumulative? or---are they pretty instantaneous injuries that occur without a build up?
I'm asking because my advice for the slowly creeping injury would be to follow the plan and adjust it for intensity once you recognize the first sign (don't ignore it). If it is the instantaneous injury, I'm more likely to go with John's advice of doing your test, seeing your vdot and then dialing back the intensity about 2 vdot points, building up to see how your handling the intensity. Either way, going with a program that fits your combined physical and mental barriers while continually asking the team/coaches to help you make adjustments will go along way to your success.
good luck
-keith