Advice on Training for Huge Trail Running Event (or I wanna be Like Mike...Hedman that is)
Following on some of the conversation in Jeremiah's post about ultras, I wanted to see whether the trail and ultra running brain trust (people like Mike H.!!) in da haus might be able to offer some suggestions on how to structure my season next year leading up to the TransRockies Run in August '11.
This is a six day trail running stage event at high altitude. This is a gig that is run in pairs; teams of two take every step together every day. My partner and I will camp each night (camp and food are set up each day by the race crew, and are included in our race fee) and then hit the trail the next day...over and over again until we've done 115 miles and made our way from Buena Vista, CO to Vail. Daily distances are between 14 and 21 miles, and a total elevation gain over the full event is somewhere around 23,000 feet.
I'm psyched for this crazy thing! BUT my lack of a really solid plan is shaking my confidence a little.
I thoiught I had a plan (admittedly a loose one) but now I'm not sure. I haven't done any real trail running for 5 years since I took a hiatus from doing things like the Pikes Peak Ascent to do Ironman and stuff like that. I know I will need focus on building run fitness and getting used to lots of time on my feet, but I am a little worried about over training the running, especially too early in the year.
I thoiught I had a plan (admittedly a loose one) but now I'm not sure. I haven't done any real trail running for 5 years since I took a hiatus from doing things like the Pikes Peak Ascent to do Ironman and stuff like that. I know I will need focus on building run fitness and getting used to lots of time on my feet, but I am a little worried about over training the running, especially too early in the year.
At this point I am planning to do the November OS, but with a potential modification to ensure that I am building more run mileage on the weekend runs, particulary toward the end. Then I'm thinking that come April I need to be turning to all of my attention toward running. I'm not sure how to do that without setting myself up for over train. I think there might be a certain level of cross training that will be appropriate, but I also know that I need to build up a lot of tolerance for time on my feet and legs (tired feet and legs, that is).
I'm also not totally sure what I should look to do race wise. I figured I'd do a half marathon in early April after exiting OS at the end of March. There is also a rolling 15K/50K trail race in early May that I wonder if I should put on the list. Come June I think it'll be pretty much all trail all the time, as much on 13er and 14er trails, and as much with my race partner (also a triathlete...) as possible so we can get a sense for our running rhythm. Should (or could) we also be riding our bikes, especially at altitude? Or is it really best to just continue to just do the running, hiking, etc.
Any advice would be appreciated, you know, some standard "dos" and "don'ts" as well as things I should be sure "to not do".
I'm not even going to thing about the nutrition thing yet....got time for that!
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Comments
O-
Mike H and John- can probably give you more info, as you know Mike posted how he was modifying his OS in the ultra thread.
At my last ultra in 08, I met a woman who was one of the top runners, a multiple WS finisher. She told me she would practice power walking hills on the treadmill, and she would have her pacers do the same. She would put the incline up and work at increasing the pace. I guess you could do these on crappy weather days
Another girl from the tucson trail running community , also has won a bunch of races, would train on the step mill. They are not always present in gyms these days, but if you have access to them.
These things will help with pacing/ power walking the hills during the "event", plan on running the flats and downhills
Cross/strength training would consider working on balance and proprioception stuff.
Nothing beats running the trails for other balance proprioception stuff
I would still include some biking workouts
Just a couple thoughts, hope it helps
This stuff is good for me to follow. Just a few weeks into the trail running & I LOVE it (even if I could hardly walk last week due to sore quads). I am looking to maybe do a 50k late spring.
Question for the day is about pacing. Obviously, I am going at a slower pace/mile, but my RPE feels out the roof sometimes. Do you guys wear a HRM or just go on RPE???
I second Gina's...BUMP!
(BTW. I'm starting to freak out that I shouldn't be doing OS at all, and instead should really be starting run focused training.)
Hi:
I can't speak to EN and ultra running in regards to a training plan. I did all mine before joining EN. But I can try and help on a couple of questions. And Olivia, you really need to be running a lot of trail hills for your event! Practice power walking up the steep sections and get used to altitude. That would be my #1 focus. Trans Rockies is yet another event that has been on my radar. looks like an awesome adventure I might try some day! Which specific event are you doing?
Also, your event isn't for 10 months so simply have some fun right now. OS is fine, but not sure why you are doing it if no tri's in your future? Cross training?
Gina, I never wear a HRM. I simply went by RPE and had to learn to pace myself up the hills when they were steep. Tracy was right on for walking the hills and running the downs and flats. And if you power walk effectively you can basically pass the road runners who are trying to run that 20% grade path and you burn a lot less energy. And the quad issue will go away the more downs you run. Promise. :-)
In regards to pace, every race is different. For JFK 50 you can run most of it at pace cuz it is basically flat. For Lake Tahoe Rim Trail 50 with 10,000 feet of climbing and getting up to 9,600 feet above sea level you have a completely different strategy. I am not sure vDot or HR really work for a truly hilly event. It really has more to do with experience and RPE than anything else. But since Mike has incorporated EN into ultra stuff he may have a better idea.
Also, ultra is not road running! I have friends who run 5 to 10 miles on the local mountains and they run it F A S T. That is fine if all you are doing is running for the hill work. But they aren't ultra running or even considering one. Ultra's take a completely different mind set.
Lastly, the greatest resource I have used back in the day was http://www.run100s.com/ and http://www.ultrunr.com/. If you dig around on these sites you should find much of the info. you seek. Including blister prevention, etc. Duct tape is your friends. And in a nutrition pinch, gummy bears will save the day. :-)
Hope this helps and I look forward to following your journey.
John
Sorry, looks like the link below blended together. Let's see if this works.
http://www.ultrunr.com/
http://www.run100s.com/
John
Couple of other resources:
How to fix Your Feet: http://www.footworkpub.com/FYF.html
Some good articles here: http://www.trailrunnermag.com/index.php
And for inspiration: http://www.run100s.com/Quotes.txt
Some of my favorites:
Hi folks,
First, I'm still learning. Every day, learning. Here's my 2 cents... (ok, you guys know me, I'm usually good for a buck and a quarter!)
John's right - you have a LONG time before the race. I have completely jumped into the kool-aid pool
, so this year I'm really looking to integrate the EN lifestyle with ultras. So I am doing the OS, and only doing minimal changes - basically I'm switching the Tuesday and Wednesday workouts, and adding some race pace time to my Sunday run. Other than that, I'm going 'stock'. My feeling is that speed and strength help - a lot - in ultras. If the race is 50 miles long and you run 10 minute miles, you're running 500 minutes. But if you run 9 minute miles, you run 450 minutes. That's almost an hour less time on your feet! The OS is also a time to get your life on level ground again. You have plenty of time to build up the miles.
As for only running (and not biking), I think you should do what you LIKE in the OS. My personal experience is that hard work on the trails will keep your cycling legs strong. So I believe the opposite would also be true - good strong work on the bike will strengthen your quads and glutes...while not pushing you into injury. So my (admittedly very small sample size) opinion is that mixing in some strong bike in the OS is a good way to stay fit, get strong, and avoid injury.
Have you seen my big wiki post? I brain dumped my current thinking on ultrarunning in the wiki. In there I talk a fair bit about pacing, training, walking, etc. I also realize that what's missing is the specific pace gearing for an ultra. Last year I did everything by RPE and hope - not the best plan. This year I'm going to try to be much more 'scientific' and data driven. The nearest analog that I see to an ultra is the bike portion of an ironman. But, with no power meter, and pace (like from a GPS watch) being effectively useless, I'm going with HR this year. I started working things out this weekend - and found that my HR for pushing up a hill hard was about 150. Today, when doing TP work on flat roads I found that I was around 155. So I think I'm narrowing in on how HR relates to my flat pace. Then, taking the bike pace zones for an IM bike, and that is 70-75%. But that's also called 'marathon pace'. So that seems a bit too aggressive. So I think where I would aim for an ultra would be 65-70% of my threshold (flat 10k) HR.
Gosh, I hope that makes sense!?! Certainly, longer courses would require an adjustment, as would shorter courses, altitude, etc. Olivia, the fact that you have to do it over, and over for successive days should suggest that you want to start slow. But I think for a baseline, 70% is the number.
Olivia, for your specific race, I don't think that race time nutrition is too-too hard. I'm ALL about boring - concentrated Infinit and course water. For your race, I second my own suggestion! Why? Because I think you should be injesting protein during your run time. While you may not need the protein during today's stage, studies have shown that injesting protein today helps your performance tomorrow! Also, I would REALLY focus on your post race nutrition strategy, and not trust the race course. For all my training runs >2 hours, I have a pre-mixed recovery drink ready before I go out, and it's going in my mouth within 10 minutes of finishing. Then 2-3 hours later you should be eating more food with protein. I went through this during last year's Winter Run Challenge, where I did 115 miles in 8 days. My 3 part strategy - protein at all the right times, 'ice' bath after each run (elevating feet works well too), and rest. The point is - obsess over your recovery plan, and you will see big benefits.
As I've said elsewhere - supplement your training by volunteering and pacing other racers. Plan on volunteering at the Desert RATS stage race in June in western Colorado. There's a pretty good chance I'll be there (if I don't get into Western States). Use shorter races, especially 30-50k races as race rehearsals.
OK, so maybe that was more than 2 cents, sorry for ranting
,
Mike
Mike & John, thanks for the advice. I feel much like a newbie here and not even sure if I will ever do an ultra ( 'course I said I would never do an IM either and now have done 3). Right now, I have my sights on some 10ks before the end of the year and hopefully some 50ks in 2011. The bug has definitely bitten me!!
As I don't want to loose my bike fitness I am going to do some form of the OS, probably more run focused though.
BTW, Mike I have read both WIKI articles, thank you for writing!
@Gina - 50k's are ultra's.
Anything beyond 26.2. And have fun on those trails. Nothing beats breaking up road running like a run out in nature.
@Mike - I am very excited to see how your experiment works out. I spent last night and also time on my bike this morning trying wrap my head around per mile pacing and using HR effectively in hilly ultra running (events with 5k of climbing or more over the 50 miles). I can see how they *may* work for 10k to 30k trail events because they are shorter distances, but they will all vary based on the course. And unlike IM or simply road running where roads are smooth and predictable, ultra's have way to many variables (terrain, altitude, time on your feet, the trail hazards themselves, etc) to make pacing or HR work very well. Especially once you are beyond 6 hours of continual running on continually changing running terrain.
This is cool shit to think about, however. Very cool.
Keep us posted because you may be on to something I am not seeing and may have a new gig as the founder of UN (Ultra Nation).
@Gina - 32 miles is a long ass way. Take the ultra label and wear it proudly.
And mile 40 is the new "wall."
Gummy Bears. Trust me. 
@John, your question is valid about why I would do OS if I'm not going to do any tri racing. That's part of my confusion...or identity crisis. That's really the crux of my issue. I sort of don't think I should be doing it. I wonder if I'm better off doing run focus work (including speed) and mixing that with some good snowshoeing and back country skiing at altitude (what we like to do in winter anyway up in Breckenridge and Leadville and Vail areas). I thought I might do some run races too...maybe a spring marathon here in CO, up to a 30k in early summer, and then once the snow is gone from the high peaks a lot of weekend hikes up fourteeners and stuff along with the running.
Also, to answer your question, I'm doing the 6 day dealio with a friend from work. My partner is doing Boston and we thought that after that point in the calendar we should be coordinated with our training. From that perspective I am starting to think that I should be at the same fitness level as she is come spring. If we're going to be able to execute the race together, we are going to have to be trained to the same degree and on the same schedule. We both agree that there is a place in our training for bike riding (and even some swimming), I am just starting to feel like I might have to let go a bit from the OS part.
I'm not sure about any of this HR stuff...RPE tends to be my gauge...especially above 10k in elevation. As long as breathing is still happening.
@Mike - your Wiki posts are great! I read them at work yesterday....very helpful along with your input here.
I appreciate the conversation here. I'm really excited about this adventure. But what I'm realizing is that it is all uncharted territory. That's a bit freaky, but admittedly that's why I'm doing it. (that and for an excuse to buy some new gear!!
Oops, just a small change to my earlier post...I just looked at my OS plan, and I'm supposed to be doing a bike on Thursday as well. But I'm not, I'll be running instead. So a more accurate picture of how I'm looking at my OS:
Tuesday: I do the Wednesday run
Wednesday: I do the Thursday bike (no brick run)
Thursday: I do some sort of longish (1:15-1:30) run with climbing
Saturday: prescribed bike
Sunday: prescribed run + some extra hill work (I think this is the primo place to put in race pace work)
Mike
@John, me too - I'm interested to see how this experiment turns out! But I do think that HR is similar to a power meter in that a power meter doesn't care if you're going up, down, into the wind, or even how long you've been out. There might be one difference though. I have half an idea that as a long day goes on, you would have to push higher in HR to maintain the same speed. For example, at hour 2 the road flattens out and you run a mile in 9 minutes, and your HR is 140, but then 2 hours later it flattens out again and you do another 9 minute mile. When you look at your HR that second time, I'm guessing, and it's nothing more than a guess, that your HR would be 143-145 (that your heart would need to be working harder to maintain the same speed)
.
I'll try to set up a test. It's science baby!
Mike
@Mike - Me likey also.
However, HR is really not like a PM, IMHO. It varies by temperature, if you have a cold, you didn't get enough sleep last night, if you are bonking, if you need to take a poop, yada, yada, yada. But you know all this. The upside, and even though it is not perfect, at least you have some general data to see how you are doing.
Agreed that the real test will be after several hours on your feet.
Run Guinea Pig Run!
Thanks for the back an forth. This is fun.
I may even pull the unused HR strap out of the box for my 310XT and do some simple testing on my next few trail runs. They won't be 6 hour runs, but will be interesting none the less.
Lastly, wanna hook up for a casual run at a PCTR event? This one on December 4th is kind in between you and me in Woodside: http://pctrailruns.com/event.aspx?dtid=5456 Not sure, but the 35k could stretch me and be interesting. 6,200 feet of climb over the 35k. Lemme know.
@Gina - for now, during the OS, I'm running flat roads on Tuesday, hilly roads on Thurs, and hilly trails on Sunday.
@John - I REALLY wanted to do the Woodside run, but that's Western States lottery day, so I'm going to go to that (they usually do some extra draws for the people who attend). But I am planning on running a trail half mary by Brazen on Dec 11. But it's way down here in Saratoga.
Mike
I don't think that the daily mileage will be that big of a deal when you look at it by itself. What you need to train your body ( and your partner's) is that you will be running for 6 days straight. The mileage is not killer but there will be an accumulation of fatilgue, so recovery skills like Mike says will be very important. You will also be at altitude and depending on how high you might be susceptible to some altitude sickness. So that is what I would try to acclimate to the high altitude. Especially if you camp out every day above 10K feet.
John, come on down!! The half doesn't start until 9am, so you would have plenty of time to get here.
Mike