@Tucker - Phillies win and you hammer out a great run! Great day and good work.
@Beth - Thanks. That helped. I just wasn't looking at the wording deep enough. Will knock out 10 tomorrow.
My funny story?
I was in Bozeman, Montana a couple of years ago for a wedding and decided to do a trail run (I am in Montana, ya know). Headed out on a well established trail and got out into the middle on nowhere. Was about 75 degrees and gorgeous day. About 4 miles out I was in a canyon and I looked up and could see some clouds coming in but didn't think much of it. Next thing I know I am in the middle of the biggest hail storm I have ever seen. Being from Cali, I am not used to these. I was getting pelted, hard, by cherry sized hail. I ran under the closest tree I could get to and hugged it as hard as I could. In 5 minutes it went from a sunny 75 degree day and turned into a white winter wonderland. Seriously, the place turned white! Amazing. And I could feel the temperature change. When it stopped I got back on the trail and it was steaming. The hail on the warm dirt. I spent the next hour making my way back through mud, slipping and sliding all the way. When I got back to my car the temp gauge read 58!
I will never forget that run! Was awesome and a totally unique experience for me.
No problem, John. Maybe the third edition of Daniels with come with a decoder ring?
5/5 for me. My boss was being super-annoying, so I ran longer than planned. A whole 5.5 miles. With some wicked fast strides. Nothing like a good run to clear one's head.
@John: sorry I've been lazy reading posts here... I don't have the book home, but "interval" work for only a minute doesn't sound right. who am I to question the man with the best name on the planet??? Usually those are at rep pace if they are that short for speed and form. Interval pace for that short of a time is not that fast comparatively. I wouldn't prescribe my runners more than 10, for that short of a time, they would tend to run faster than interval pace since you're not going far and you are getting the same time for recovery. I don't know. I'll try to remember to check it next week. As far as his calculations for percents, I can't be bothered with that, too much thinking! I just try to follow his track work with fill in miles on other days that I deem necessary for a 5k.
6:30 AM here in NorCal, sitting in front of the fire in the fireplace, chatting with my son about his birthday party today, mom is in town from SoCal, raining outside and supposed to rain all day. Relaxed. May just bail on the intervals for the day and be super dad/son.
Will make the call in a couple of hours.
Unless, of course, I get chastised from any of you or Dan heads out. Then I may be motivated . . . . .
Well that totally SUCKED! I was not mentally prepared for doing 5 x 1 miles. I was completely psyching myself out as I have not done these in about a year. It really was a mental thing for me today. At .2 miles into the 5th interval I stopped and walked for 10 seconds as I was debating quitting and going home. My legs felt fine, but my mind was whack! Gotta work on my mental 6 pack.
T pace from Daniels book at my vDot is 8:12.
Mile 1 - 7:59 DOH!
Mile 2 - 8:04
Mile 3 - 8:13
Mile 4 - 8:15
Mile 5 - 8:20
The track isn't available when school is in session so I did these on a road near my house using my Garmin or distance and pacing. Slight rolling road for the 1 mile. Need to work on pacing again. I just didn't feel it. But it will come. It always does.
Q3 workout for Saturday is kinda cryptic. 1 minute hard at (I) pace then 1 minute easy, then 30 seconds hard at (I) pace then 30 seconds easy. Doesn't say how many I do? Anyone have a clue and can help? It is on Page 244 of the book.
@John, sorry I did not catch this sooner, Daniels hard=I-pace, I-pace session is no more than 8% of weekly mileage. From his book.
Week 4, Phase II 5-15k plan, nearly complete at 40mi again, as planned. Q1 was R-pace 4 sets of 2x200m+600m. That went well, a little faster than I should. Recovery took more than 48 hrs. Q2 was T-pace adjusted for 4mi, that came out on target @ 6:45 pace. I find these T-pace runs most difficult to handle during execution, but recovery seems ok. Where R-pace running is taken ok during, but after, recovery, I guess, due to speed, takes longer. I also notice different muscles soreness, quads after R-pace, vs calves only after T-pace. I guess, mechanics of running faster are different.
Monday, starts Week 1, Phase III. Lots of I-pace and T-pace running. T-pace is running from the book is going to get a major scale back as it is insane. I will dialed it down to my level.
Subjectively, feeling faster, 11/21 and mid December will show if that is true.
Question for everyone:
Due to traveling, I may not be able to locate a track for I-pace running. Would you run it on the asphalt. If so, would you run it as is or alter/ dial back the pace or quantity:
@Aleksandar - Good work. Fun to see you weeks ahead of me in the program.
During the week I run during the day and can't get on to a track because school is in session. So I run on an asphalt road near my house. I use my Garmin for distance and pace. Not as easy to monitor pace like on a track every one lap, but it sure beats the dreadmill. I would do asphalt and as planned.
I ended up doing today's Q3 Workout:
10 x (1 min. fast /1 min. recovery + 30 sec. fast/30 sec. recovery)
GREAT session. Way more fun than the mile repeats on Thursday. I have never had a workout like this and I got thrown off after the 30 second interval the first few. Kept thinking I had 1 min. recovery after the 30 fast. The first 6 or so I was gasping after each, but the last intervals I was holding a solid, manageable pace.
Posted By Aleksandar Tasic on 23 Oct 2010 10:02 AM
Posted By John Stark on 21 Oct 2010 12:59 PM
Well that totally SUCKED! I was not mentally prepared for doing 5 x 1 miles. I was completely psyching myself out as I have not done these in about a year. It really was a mental thing for me today. At .2 miles into the 5th interval I stopped and walked for 10 seconds as I was debating quitting and going home. My legs felt fine, but my mind was whack! Gotta work on my mental 6 pack.
T pace from Daniels book at my vDot is 8:12.
Mile 1 - 7:59 DOH!
Mile 2 - 8:04
Mile 3 - 8:13
Mile 4 - 8:15
Mile 5 - 8:20
The track isn't available when school is in session so I did these on a road near my house using my Garmin or distance and pacing. Slight rolling road for the 1 mile. Need to work on pacing again. I just didn't feel it. But it will come. It always does.
Q3 workout for Saturday is kinda cryptic. 1 minute hard at (I) pace then 1 minute easy, then 30 seconds hard at (I) pace then 30 seconds easy. Doesn't say how many I do? Anyone have a clue and can help? It is on Page 244 of the book.
@John, sorry I did not catch this sooner, Daniels hard=I-pace, I-pace session is no more than 8% of weekly mileage. From his book.
Thanks for that clarificaiton, Aleksandar.
I was curious about this as well - when it came time for that workout, I reasoned that for a dude who is incredibly specific in the use of every other term in his book, Daniels is being uncharacteristically vague in describing the work in this session as "hard." So, my educated guess was he wanted me to run this based on RPE instead of a specific, designated, VDOT-based minutes-per-mile pace.
(interesting part was in the post-mortem of that workout, the actual pace of the 'hard' for me was almost exactly I-pace).
@Dave, that is an excellent observation. It makes a lot of sense. Daniels maybe leaving some wiggle room for the case the athlete is not entirely recovered for Q3 workout, therefore leaves some room for RPE adjustment. Obviously VO2 max benefit is there any time we are performing at the specific O2 consumption. Paces slower than I-pace may provide the same benefit, ie. 5K pace. Also in 5-15k program intro, he does recommend replacing I-pace Q3 workout with a race lasting 12-30min.
While muscle recruitment pattern maybe different at a slightly slower pace, through manipulation of intensity (pace adjustment) we can still incur the same benefit.
Another thought on Daniels 'hard' ... the workouts where that appears seem to have a different intention than traditional interval sessions. First, they are interchangeable with weekly races in the plan, and second, Daniels manipulates the recovery interval (the 'easy') from what is normally a 1:1 work:recovery interval to things like 3:2 or 4:3 work:recovery.
So I'm thinking these are intended more as race-specific preparation - preparing the athlete to run 'hard' on race day - than anything else. All of my speculation aside, enough people have gone through Daniels over the years that I'm sure there's a correct answer to this question - and what adaptations or training effect he's trying to elicit - explained in an authoritative way on the 'net somewhere.
Don't yell at me John, I finked out on you yesterday! I found that a family nap for 2 hours was much more enticing! I'm planning on an easy run between the rain today, I promise! On another note, I've been reading some of the posts about Daniels' training intensities... what I find myself doing is over analyzing everything after a while. You read, then reread it all and get too mental about it. Go out, do the interval times/distances and your pace will most likely be right just based on that time/distance, we all know how hard we should be running for said workout. I tend to really overthink the workouts when I plan them for my team, and really it all works out properly. If short, run them hard, if repeats, run them comfortably hard, if longer, make sure your breathing doesn't get worse than 1 inhale for every 2 strides and 1 exhale for every 2 strides with conversation difficult. See, I'm already overanalyzing.....
@Dave and Aleksandar - Good, good stuff. Thanks for the drill down.
@Dan - Ya, I really like things netted out so I can just go do it.
With that said . . . . I have another question:
This week I have two Q workouts. One is easy to decipher sans decoder ring and that is 10 x 400's @ R pace. No brainer
The second Q workout is a 40 minute tempo run. I have read page 113 "Tempo Runs" section and I am not quite comprehending (it is Sunday morning and I am tired). If I am understanding correctly, using the chart below, if I am running 20 minute tempo at my vDot of 40 I would run @ 8:29's. However, if it is a tempo run of more than 20 minutes I use the 8:29 and add 17 seconds for an overall pace of 8:46 for the 40 minutes?
1. I'm glad so many of you are ahead of me in Daniels.
2. I obviously need to get out the highlighter and actually study the book!
3. Run 7/7 in the book -- Seven miles at EP, or so. I'm back a little early and wasn't running with a Garmin, so my legs are believing easy pace is faster than my Vdot.
@John, correct on T-pace adjustment. One suggestion on Q1 10-12x400m(400m) R-pace:
I run 40mi/week. Daniels suggestion for R-pace is 5% of weekly mileage, so for me falls at total of 2mi@R-pace or 8x400m(400m) or any other combination that will give you that.
Maybe you want to adjust the number of reps a little down and see how it goes, rather than sticking to 10x . See what you think.
Supplemental: If you are reaching your run miles goals, do something else, otherwise trail/soft surface running will do.
I have completed this week with 3 swims, mostly FLY and IM work, some fast 50s FR, 3 bikes two were FTP related, some core/ stretch.
@John: the time is already added, the number in () is what was added if I'm reading it correctly.... I don't think Jack would make you add! So an 8:29 pace should suffice.
@Aleksandar and Dan - Thanks and DAMN! 8:46 is way easier. :-) And it is right there in the normal vDot chart. Thanks.
And this has me asking yet another question:
I have looked and looked and can't seem to find what I should target my weekly mileage at for this phase? Looks like it has something to do with Weekly Points?
@John: Daniels doesn't stress any type of mileage recipe. I have no idea with mileage. For 5ks in high school, I focus on the intervals and on the other days between 5-7 miles, 2 races per week. For me personally, I've never worried about a race circuit to be competitive so I haven't cared either. I'm more of a time guy and will go no less than 30 minutes and no more than 70-80 minutes unless there's a prescribed workout with tempo efforts in it that lead me longer. I'm assuming your following the 3k-5k plans right now, focus on your speed and getting that vdot up, and do your easy runs for as long as you want without worrying about mileage, that will come. Whether you want to run for an hour or do 5-7 miles, I guess it washes out. If your doing EASY runs and your mileage isn't far, its the TIME that your body is working that's the factor, not so much the miles. You'll have plenty of time in the last 12 weeks for those prescribed miles, and if your body is used to working for that amount of time now, even if its half the distance, you'll be able to get the longer miles in later. I have no idea if that makes sense. Your intervals will get you the speed you need for the race prep distances, your time spent on the easy runs will give you the endurance.
I did 40 minutes today, maybe 4 miles for me on the trails, but I don't care. When I have to pump out sub 8 minute miles later for 40 minutes, the track work will take care of the speed/intensity for it, while my 10+ min/mile will now will handle the endurance...
I ran 10(?) with the wifey today. Well 10 is debatable. The route was mapped out by my father in law who is very precise with his distances, but my Garmin came up with 9.2. We even tacked on some when we made a wrong turn. To make matters even crazier I never had the watch acquire satellites. So we started the run and I thought the pace showing up was way too fast and then at the end way too slow. I know, we all feel the same way right? It's just I can't shake the feeling that something was off.
But oh well, I'll go with the watch and say I ran 9.2 hilly miles at an average pace of 8:26.
Oh and let me add that I was able to add to my mental six pack. My wireless headphones ran out of power 1 mile in. Not exactly sure how this happened because I fully charged them and only used them for 1 hour on the trainer. Guess it's time to read the manual again.
@Tucker, I know, I am one of those freaks that will run in circles until the clock ticks exact number I set out to do. Silly, I know, pretty moderate OCD here. No worries, the work is done, benefit is there, 9.2 mi, it is ok. I know easier said than accepted.
@John, weekly miles are a broad subject. Obviously highly individual. Daniels is pretty subtle about suggesting mileage. Keep in mind that what you set out to follow is an Elite runner 5-15k program. Look at Daniels red and blue plans, it will give you a broad range.
I also want to express my caution about raising weekly miles by 10mi every 3 weeks as Daniels suggests. Again, 18 year old kids can do that, us, not so abrupt. If you are running 20-30mi a week, 10 can mean 50% increase.
Check where you are now. Phase II can tolerate a slight mileage increase, however Phase III, I doubt. See if you can raise by 10% a week for a few weeks, than keep it steady. When do you stop increasing? I got to 40-45mi/week and so far have been tolerating well, with a long run being no more than 10mi. That run is Q2 with threshold running. Again, all of this is highly individual. Last year this time I was running 8 weeks at 60mi/week with no issues, a lot less intensity. No way I could combine 3 Qs + long run with 60mi/week.
Phase III has so much I-pace running that I think raising mileage there is suicidal.
Final and concrete suggestion, I find 35-40mi/week for 5k racing very decent. Look at your current mileage, consider you are now in Phase II, tough but not overly so, raise mileage on weeks where you have 2 Qs, feel and listen. Volume is important only in a broad sense. What ever you get before Phase III, it is what it is. I would not raise it there. Main focus are your main sets, but tailoring the amount of your main sets will depend on your weekly mileage.
Where are you now with your mileage, speaking of that?
Oh, by the way, I am not a running coach (I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night), not an expert, just so you know. I am a swim coach though, but swimming and running have little in common. Some of these guys here can give better advice.
@ Tucker - maybe dad has undersize tires that over clocked the distance? Just a guess....
@John / Dan - you guys are like couple of NAScar mechanics ... tearing into the infinitesimal minutia of what makes to make the car go faster... makes me think I need to go memorize JD’s book… =:-O
Today I ran for the first time post marathon. Felt excellent. When I left I had planned to go about 20 minutes then turn around. A mile later I thought I should run over to the University to see how far it is to the track for my OS 5K test. Turns out it is 3 miles away. Instead of turning around I kept going. Sort of around the block return home. It may have been a little farther than needed at 7.8 mile loop @ 8:49 - a comfortable pace. Good run overall, no aches or pains.
@Tucker - Good work. And which wireless headphones are you using?
@Beth - 7/7!? WOOHOO! And running sans tech can be such a freedom. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to seeing your posts next week. And I bet you are eating up all this 411 like I am!
@ Dan - Thanks yet again! I like your laid back attitude. And I am following 5k to 15k program.
@Aleksandar - Holy cow! Good, good stuff. My weekly mileage for Phase 1 was 25 - 30 miles. I will start with 30 miles starting this week since it is Q2 and see how it goes. Then in two weeks I will try and bump by 10%.
Thanks for all the back and forth today everyone. My 82 year old mom is in town and it is raining so spending much time in the house near PC. :-)
@John, Phase II week 2 33mi, week 4 37mi, week 6 cut to 30mi. Start Phase III with 37mi, you will be golden. If you are feeling good half way through, push to 40mi last 2 weeks and take it home. Phase IV, retain 40mi/week.
Thanks guys, maybe the old man is off. But damn he is a metronome. My wife was guiding, until I ran too fast for her, yeah I dropped her . And her sense of direction is, let's say lacking. maybe she missed a turn or offshoot. Oh well it was hilly so all good.
@John, I have Jaybird Bluetooth Headphones. http://www.jaybirdgear.com/ ; For some reason I can't find the ones I have even though I just got them like 2 weeks ago. Very odd. But check the site out. Also, you get a discount with USAT.
Comments
@Scott - aka The Comeback Kid! Good work.
@Dave - A simple stun gun will do the trick. :-)
@Tucker - Phillies win and you hammer out a great run! Great day and good work.
@Beth - Thanks. That helped. I just wasn't looking at the wording deep enough. Will knock out 10 tomorrow.
My funny story?
I was in Bozeman, Montana a couple of years ago for a wedding and decided to do a trail run (I am in Montana, ya know). Headed out on a well established trail and got out into the middle on nowhere. Was about 75 degrees and gorgeous day. About 4 miles out I was in a canyon and I looked up and could see some clouds coming in but didn't think much of it. Next thing I know I am in the middle of the biggest hail storm I have ever seen. Being from Cali, I am not used to these. I was getting pelted, hard, by cherry sized hail. I ran under the closest tree I could get to and hugged it as hard as I could. In 5 minutes it went from a sunny 75 degree day and turned into a white winter wonderland. Seriously, the place turned white! Amazing. And I could feel the temperature change. When it stopped I got back on the trail and it was steaming. The hail on the warm dirt. I spent the next hour making my way back through mud, slipping and sliding all the way. When I got back to my car the temp gauge read 58!
I will never forget that run! Was awesome and a totally unique experience for me.
No problem, John. Maybe the third edition of Daniels with come with a decoder ring?
5/5 for me. My boss was being super-annoying, so I ran longer than planned. A whole 5.5 miles. With some wicked fast strides. Nothing like a good run to clear one's head.
@John: sorry I've been lazy reading posts here... I don't have the book home, but "interval" work for only a minute doesn't sound right. who am I to question the man with the best name on the planet??? Usually those are at rep pace if they are that short for speed and form. Interval pace for that short of a time is not that fast comparatively. I wouldn't prescribe my runners more than 10, for that short of a time, they would tend to run faster than interval pace since you're not going far and you are getting the same time for recovery. I don't know. I'll try to remember to check it next week. As far as his calculations for percents, I can't be bothered with that, too much thinking! I just try to follow his track work with fill in miles on other days that I deem necessary for a 5k.
@Team Steve(n) - The Zero, Zilch, Nada mileage team. I think I have the caption for next week's thread.
Recover well.
@Dan - Thanks.
6:30 AM here in NorCal, sitting in front of the fire in the fireplace, chatting with my son about his birthday party today, mom is in town from SoCal, raining outside and supposed to rain all day. Relaxed. May just bail on the intervals for the day and be super dad/son.
Will make the call in a couple of hours.
Unless, of course, I get chastised from any of you or Dan heads out. Then I may be motivated . . . . .
@John: I'll run today, but you don't have to!
Run 6/6 in the books for the week. I'm going to bake a cake now.
John - I'm so curious to see how the intervals play out. Hm. Running in the rain fun v. being super dad. That's a tough call!
Week 4, Phase II 5-15k plan, nearly complete at 40mi again, as planned. Q1 was R-pace 4 sets of 2x200m+600m. That went well, a little faster than I should. Recovery took more than 48 hrs. Q2 was T-pace adjusted for 4mi, that came out on target @ 6:45 pace. I find these T-pace runs most difficult to handle during execution, but recovery seems ok. Where R-pace running is taken ok during, but after, recovery, I guess, due to speed, takes longer. I also notice different muscles soreness, quads after R-pace, vs calves only after T-pace. I guess, mechanics of running faster are different.
Monday, starts Week 1, Phase III. Lots of I-pace and T-pace running. T-pace is running from the book is going to get a major scale back as it is insane. I will dialed it down to my level.
Subjectively, feeling faster, 11/21 and mid December will show if that is true.
Question for everyone:
Due to traveling, I may not be able to locate a track for I-pace running. Would you run it on the asphalt. If so, would you run it as is or alter/ dial back the pace or quantity:
4x1200m(4min)@6:04min/mi
1. Run all 4 as is
2. Run all 4 at 5K pace, 6:14min/mi
3. Scale back to 800m
4. Run on treadmill as is, hate it
Thanks
@Aleksandar - Good work. Fun to see you weeks ahead of me in the program.
During the week I run during the day and can't get on to a track because school is in session. So I run on an asphalt road near my house. I use my Garmin for distance and pace. Not as easy to monitor pace like on a track every one lap, but it sure beats the dreadmill. I would do asphalt and as planned.
I ended up doing today's Q3 Workout:
10 x (1 min. fast /1 min. recovery + 30 sec. fast/30 sec. recovery)
GREAT session. Way more fun than the mile repeats on Thursday. I have never had a workout like this and I got thrown off after the 30 second interval the first few. Kept thinking I had 1 min. recovery after the 30 fast.
The first 6 or so I was gasping after each, but the last intervals I was holding a solid, manageable pace.
So today I am super dad/son AND athlete.
Thanks for that clarificaiton, Aleksandar.
I was curious about this as well - when it came time for that workout, I reasoned that for a dude who is incredibly specific in the use of every other term in his book, Daniels is being uncharacteristically vague in describing the work in this session as "hard." So, my educated guess was he wanted me to run this based on RPE instead of a specific, designated, VDOT-based minutes-per-mile pace.
(interesting part was in the post-mortem of that workout, the actual pace of the 'hard' for me was almost exactly I-pace).
@Dave, that is an excellent observation. It makes a lot of sense. Daniels maybe leaving some wiggle room for the case the athlete is not entirely recovered for Q3 workout, therefore leaves some room for RPE adjustment. Obviously VO2 max benefit is there any time we are performing at the specific O2 consumption. Paces slower than I-pace may provide the same benefit, ie. 5K pace. Also in 5-15k program intro, he does recommend replacing I-pace Q3 workout with a race lasting 12-30min.
While muscle recruitment pattern maybe different at a slightly slower pace, through manipulation of intensity (pace adjustment) we can still incur the same benefit.
So I'm thinking these are intended more as race-specific preparation - preparing the athlete to run 'hard' on race day - than anything else. All of my speculation aside, enough people have gone through Daniels over the years that I'm sure there's a correct answer to this question - and what adaptations or training effect he's trying to elicit - explained in an authoritative way on the 'net somewhere.
Don't yell at me John, I finked out on you yesterday! I found that a family nap for 2 hours was much more enticing! I'm planning on an easy run between the rain today, I promise! On another note, I've been reading some of the posts about Daniels' training intensities... what I find myself doing is over analyzing everything after a while. You read, then reread it all and get too mental about it. Go out, do the interval times/distances and your pace will most likely be right just based on that time/distance, we all know how hard we should be running for said workout. I tend to really overthink the workouts when I plan them for my team, and really it all works out properly. If short, run them hard, if repeats, run them comfortably hard, if longer, make sure your breathing doesn't get worse than 1 inhale for every 2 strides and 1 exhale for every 2 strides with conversation difficult. See, I'm already overanalyzing.....
@Dave and Aleksandar - Good, good stuff. Thanks for the drill down.
@Dan - Ya, I really like things netted out so I can just go do it.
With that said . . . . I have another question:
This week I have two Q workouts. One is easy to decipher sans decoder ring and that is 10 x 400's @ R pace. No brainer
The second Q workout is a 40 minute tempo run. I have read page 113 "Tempo Runs" section and I am not quite comprehending (it is Sunday morning and I am tired). If I am understanding correctly, using the chart below, if I am running 20 minute tempo at my vDot of 40 I would run @ 8:29's. However, if it is a tempo run of more than 20 minutes I use the 8:29 and add 17 seconds for an overall pace of 8:46 for the 40 minutes?
Please advise.
Thanks.
John
Also, for you guys ahead of me in the program, what kind of Supplemental workouts are you doing?
Last week I only ran the 3 workouts and rode one day. But I am thinking I need to run more days as Supplemental? Z1 oone runs and trail runs?
Thanks.
1. I'm glad so many of you are ahead of me in Daniels.
2. I obviously need to get out the highlighter and actually study the book!
3. Run 7/7 in the book -- Seven miles at EP, or so. I'm back a little early and wasn't running with a Garmin, so my legs are believing easy pace is faster than my Vdot.
@John, correct on T-pace adjustment. One suggestion on Q1 10-12x400m(400m) R-pace:
I run 40mi/week. Daniels suggestion for R-pace is 5% of weekly mileage, so for me falls at total of 2mi@R-pace or 8x400m(400m) or any other combination that will give you that.
Maybe you want to adjust the number of reps a little down and see how it goes, rather than sticking to 10x . See what you think.
Supplemental: If you are reaching your run miles goals, do something else, otherwise trail/soft surface running will do.
I have completed this week with 3 swims, mostly FLY and IM work, some fast 50s FR, 3 bikes two were FTP related, some core/ stretch.
@John: the time is already added, the number in () is what was added if I'm reading it correctly.... I don't think Jack would make you add! So an 8:29 pace should suffice.
@John, yep, let me correct this, your T-pace is 8:12, you add 17sec to correct for 40min and you end up with 8:29, not 8:46.
WOW, I dream of climbing that mountain one day. did you end up getting to the peak?
-hb
@Aleksandar and Dan - Thanks and DAMN! 8:46 is way easier. :-) And it is right there in the normal vDot chart. Thanks.
And this has me asking yet another question:
I have looked and looked and can't seem to find what I should target my weekly mileage at for this phase? Looks like it has something to do with Weekly Points?
@John: Daniels doesn't stress any type of mileage recipe. I have no idea with mileage. For 5ks in high school, I focus on the intervals and on the other days between 5-7 miles, 2 races per week. For me personally, I've never worried about a race circuit to be competitive so I haven't cared either. I'm more of a time guy and will go no less than 30 minutes and no more than 70-80 minutes unless there's a prescribed workout with tempo efforts in it that lead me longer. I'm assuming your following the 3k-5k plans right now, focus on your speed and getting that vdot up, and do your easy runs for as long as you want without worrying about mileage, that will come. Whether you want to run for an hour or do 5-7 miles, I guess it washes out. If your doing EASY runs and your mileage isn't far, its the TIME that your body is working that's the factor, not so much the miles. You'll have plenty of time in the last 12 weeks for those prescribed miles, and if your body is used to working for that amount of time now, even if its half the distance, you'll be able to get the longer miles in later. I have no idea if that makes sense. Your intervals will get you the speed you need for the race prep distances, your time spent on the easy runs will give you the endurance.
I did 40 minutes today, maybe 4 miles for me on the trails, but I don't care. When I have to pump out sub 8 minute miles later for 40 minutes, the track work will take care of the speed/intensity for it, while my 10+ min/mile will now will handle the endurance...
I ran 10(?) with the wifey today. Well 10 is debatable. The route was mapped out by my father in law who is very precise with his distances, but my Garmin came up with 9.2. We even tacked on some when we made a wrong turn. To make matters even crazier I never had the watch acquire satellites. So we started the run and I thought the pace showing up was way too fast and then at the end way too slow. I know, we all feel the same way right? It's just I can't shake the feeling that something was off.
But oh well, I'll go with the watch and say I ran 9.2 hilly miles at an average pace of 8:26.
Oh and let me add that I was able to add to my mental six pack. My wireless headphones ran out of power 1 mile in. Not exactly sure how this happened because I fully charged them and only used them for 1 hour on the trainer. Guess it's time to read the manual again.
@Tucker, I know, I am one of those freaks that will run in circles until the clock ticks exact number I set out to do. Silly, I know, pretty moderate OCD here. No worries, the work is done, benefit is there, 9.2 mi, it is ok. I know easier said than accepted.
@John, weekly miles are a broad subject. Obviously highly individual. Daniels is pretty subtle about suggesting mileage. Keep in mind that what you set out to follow is an Elite runner 5-15k program. Look at Daniels red and blue plans, it will give you a broad range.
I also want to express my caution about raising weekly miles by 10mi every 3 weeks as Daniels suggests. Again, 18 year old kids can do that, us, not so abrupt. If you are running 20-30mi a week, 10 can mean 50% increase.
Check where you are now. Phase II can tolerate a slight mileage increase, however Phase III, I doubt. See if you can raise by 10% a week for a few weeks, than keep it steady. When do you stop increasing? I got to 40-45mi/week and so far have been tolerating well, with a long run being no more than 10mi. That run is Q2 with threshold running. Again, all of this is highly individual. Last year this time I was running 8 weeks at 60mi/week with no issues, a lot less intensity. No way I could combine 3 Qs + long run with 60mi/week.
Phase III has so much I-pace running that I think raising mileage there is suicidal.
Final and concrete suggestion, I find 35-40mi/week for 5k racing very decent. Look at your current mileage, consider you are now in Phase II, tough but not overly so, raise mileage on weeks where you have 2 Qs, feel and listen. Volume is important only in a broad sense. What ever you get before Phase III, it is what it is. I would not raise it there. Main focus are your main sets, but tailoring the amount of your main sets will depend on your weekly mileage.
Where are you now with your mileage, speaking of that?
Oh, by the way, I am not a running coach (I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night), not an expert, just so you know. I am a swim coach though, but swimming and running have little in common. Some of these guys here can give better advice.
@John / Dan - you guys are like couple of NAScar mechanics ... tearing into the infinitesimal minutia of what makes to make the car go faster... makes me think I need to go memorize JD’s book… =:-O
Today I ran for the first time post marathon. Felt excellent. When I left I had planned to go about 20 minutes then turn around. A mile later I thought I should run over to the University to see how far it is to the track for my OS 5K test. Turns out it is 3 miles away. Instead of turning around I kept going. Sort of around the block return home. It may have been a little farther than needed at 7.8 mile loop @ 8:49 - a comfortable pace. Good run overall, no aches or pains.
Run Strong
@Tucker - Good work. And which wireless headphones are you using?
@Beth - 7/7!? WOOHOO! And running sans tech can be such a freedom. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to seeing your posts next week. And I bet you are eating up all this 411 like I am!
@ Dan - Thanks yet again! I like your laid back attitude. And I am following 5k to 15k program.
@Aleksandar - Holy cow! Good, good stuff. My weekly mileage for Phase 1 was 25 - 30 miles. I will start with 30 miles starting this week since it is Q2 and see how it goes. Then in two weeks I will try and bump by 10%.
Thanks for all the back and forth today everyone. My 82 year old mom is in town and it is raining so spending much time in the house near PC. :-)
Have a GREAT week.
@John, Phase II week 2 33mi, week 4 37mi, week 6 cut to 30mi. Start Phase III with 37mi, you will be golden. If you are feeling good half way through, push to 40mi last 2 weeks and take it home. Phase IV, retain 40mi/week.
Thanks guys, maybe the old man is off. But damn he is a metronome. My wife was guiding, until I ran too fast for her, yeah I dropped her
. And her sense of direction is, let's say lacking. maybe she missed a turn or offshoot. Oh well it was hilly so all good.
@John, I have Jaybird Bluetooth Headphones. http://www.jaybirdgear.com/ ; For some reason I can't find the ones I have even though I just got them like 2 weeks ago. Very odd. But check the site out. Also, you get a discount with USAT.